So we got our first good storm here in the PNW with a few days of 15-20 degree temps. I have an unheated shop next to my house and of course all of my solvents, glues, mud, etc. were out there.
Most things say do not let freeze, what I’m wondering is which ones are negatively affected if they truly do freeze?
Here’s the specific things I’m wondering about:
Bucket o’ drywall mud
Titebond wood glue
Latex paint
Shellacs
Oil finishes (lots of natural oil finishes, BLO, pure tung, some things without a lot of metallic driers and such)
Furniture wax/paste wax
I’m assuming the things that mainly get affected are water based materials.
I’ve never had a problem with any products freezing before, and I can’t rightly say that anything froze or didn’t freeze out there for the past few days it was cold outside. It just got me to thinking that I really don’t know what happens chemically or functionally to some things that freeze and then unfreeze, and I figure some of the guys especially in the midwest/east coast might have some good input on what gets hosed by cold temps, and what does just fine.
I’d hate to glue something up and find that the strength has been compromised.
I welcome any input, except of course for the folks who will say, “now wait, you don’t actually get winter weather in the NW, now here in Minnesota I have to dig tunnels through the snow just to get to the shovel so I can dig more tunnels through the snow, just so I can connect to the snow tunnels that will serve as our means of transportation for the next three months!”
Happy holidays,
Paul
Replies
i don't want to tell ya,go ahead and use it,it will be ok.
here we have been to 4 with the high in the upper 20's for a week and a half. my shop with no heat got to 30. i really don't understand why but it takes a lot to freeze the shop. the toliet never even got any ice on it.
if you think this may happen again buy a out side/inside thermometer,they will usally have the highest/lowest temp since you reset it. that way you know if it's even hit freezing.
my guess is everything is fine.
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I would say chuck it all...especially the bucket-o-mud..I thawed some mud once out of desperation and it did not work at all...
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Your bucket of mud is shot if it actually froze, most of the time at those temperatures it doesn't actually freeze right away. Once it freezes and thaws out it has little chunks in it that put a bunch of lines in your mud while you're trying to finish. The titebond if I remember right is rated to freeze a couple of times, I've never had problems with mine if it freezes once or twice. I'm a little sketchy on the paint, I've heard that it's no good once it freezes numerous times, but I've actually had pretty good luck with it after one or two light freezes where it didn't turn the whole thing into a solid block of paint, if it's chunky I've strained it. The solvent based stuff should all still be fine.
Edit: I also agree with alwaysoverbudget. Most of these things don't freeze anywhere near as easily as water for starters, and being in a building, even uninsulated, it usually takes quite a few days of weather quite a bit below freezing before you manage to freeze them.
Edited 12/25/2008 11:19 pm ET by Stilts
Toss the glue. It's just not worth a failure. Some folks say you can let it freeze once, but using possibly ruined glue is just bad economics.
The latex paint will smell like ammonia if it got frozen and it will obviously not flow properly. It won't stay stirred up and will streak on the wall.
The drywall mud is probably OK at those temps, but it's cheap, too. If it doesn't stir up well, toss it.
The shellac is alcohol based and unaffected by freezing. You are also fine with the oil-based products and your wax.
You are more conservative than I am on the glue, but good point that if there's any doubt - throw it out. Still, I have used it after a good ten freeze/thaws.
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Like salt water, because there is more particles and chemicals other than just water, most of that stuff does not freeze until it gets down to 20-25°F.
And a lot of it has what are called freeze-thaw cycles. A studious look at the MSDS for each product will tell how many freeze thaw cycles it can take. some can do it 5-10 timews, others fourty times before it is time to chuck it.
On the glue, I talked to a TB rep at JLC live and he told me that it is good until you see a colour change or separation of fluids and solids. I have used TB that has frozen and thawed fairly often with no trouble. I chuck it out when it shows bad visibly.
The SR mud may have only frosted a bit. If it mixes smooth and does not have a strange odor, it is usable. When you get an ammonia like smell off it, or a grainy texture then throw it out.
Same with latex paint. The smell will tell.
all the alcohol and oil based stuff is fine. I leave mine in the shop all winter, and bring the latex stuff in the basement.
I think most caulks have the freeze-thaw cycle printed right on the tube itself.
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Regarding latex paint, I've left a bucket in my truck for a night at 20 below and it was fine. A paint store guy told me that regular latex can stand a little freeze, but the new low VOC paint is not so forgiving.
Big Stretch latex caulk used to (maybe still does) say on the tube "freeze/thaw stable for up to 10 cycles."
I once had the heat go out on a project and froze a whole pallet of drywall mud. In spite of my initial dismay, it turned out fine.
Your oil and alcohol based products will not be affected.
Of course, 15-20 degrees is small potatoes. I bet all your stuff is fine, given that it probably wasn't that cold in your shed.
Of all the materials you have mentioned, the drywall spackle is the only thing I have thrown out.One freeze probably wouldn't hurt the mud, open it and mix it with a paddle. If it works up to a good consistency and looks right to the eye,then try it out in an inconspicous place.I have had latex paint freeze and thaw many times without any problems.
mike
Mud and paint, in particular, have surprised me in their abilities to freeze, thaw, and still be used. Don't confuse that with my endorsing the practice, though ...
After a freeze, it's usually a lot harder to properly mix the stuff. There seems to be more trouble with lumps, etc. Much of this stuff is cheap enough to toss, and replace with good stuff. It can also take up far too much of your time to thaw and remix the stuff.
For the home handyman, it's important to also realize that products have very definite shelf lives. Eventually, you won't have a usable product; you're carefully storing trash. There are many products for which the clock starts ticking the moment you open the container - and there's nothing you can do to extend their life.
Oil based products, and most waxes, will never get cold enough to suffer harm. You still need them warm, though, for them to work right.
Shellac, while alcohol based (and thus freexe resistant), has a very limited storage life. If you can't use it up in the Fall, it's best to toss it and start with a fresh batch in the Spring.
i'm use'n over 10yo latex paint now 100's of gallons... out of 6 pallets i have had less than 10 bad cans... most due to rust where something leaked on the can...
I'd have zero issue use'n any of it if it looked ok when opened... if it smells real bad... then i MIGHT toss it... but it'd have to look bad also... I did have some 5yr old boxes of mud that turned grey... it worked fine but it was not bright white... don't know why...
i think you are fine
p
Thanks for all the input.
Nothing seemed like it froze much out there, I don't even know that the temps got too far below freezing in the shop. I thought maybe since just about everything has some sort of additive in it that most would have a freezing point slightly below water, but just didn't know.
I was mainly wanting to educate myself on something that it seemed like I should know but had no idea.
The temps have gotten that cold before out there with no adverse reactions but now I feel just a little better about keeping my stuff out there if it's not in a warm jobsite somewhere.
If you need to find me, I'll be out sniffing all my glues and solvents all day..... I bet I won't even notice the cold after that.....
Paul
what i would say about the latex paint is it definitely has a smell when it has been frozen. however, i've used previously frozen paint many times with no prob. save it for small projects
when it becomes a problem is when you go to touch up a spot on a wall etc.. the frozen paint now has a different sheen and will shine as if you were putting semi gloss on flat.