Hello, I’ve been asked to qoute a round door 5’6″ diameter for a wine cellar, the door and frame will be Fir, split in 2, open inswing, 1 3/4 thick x 6-8″ , with glass panels, the frame will be mounted in stone. First question is how to hinge them ( thinking of pins top and bottom, but how to adjust if it goes out of wack) any other ideas about how to go about building ?
Discussion Forum
Discussion Forum
Up Next
Video Shorts
Featured Story
Few people understand it. Nobody agrees what it is, how to learn about it, or who's responsible for it. It has never been more important
Featured Video
Builder’s Advocate: An Interview With ViewrailHighlights
"I have learned so much thanks to the searchable articles on the FHB website. I can confidently say that I expect to be a life-long subscriber." - M.K.
Replies
mimic comercial business entry doors that pivot...
humongous strap hinges (ornate of course) with the pivots on a center axis as though the door were square back to either the stone or door frame...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Something like this?
yup...
the pivot doors I saw in Europe were pivoted on the center line on the door with the adjustment being a sliding plate/retainer in the frame....
but the doors were a lot larger than 5'6"...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
There is really no such thing as a round door. Why? Because the hinge defines a 'line,' and circles have no straight lines on them. So, what you have is a rectangle of a 'door,' with projections that make it look round.
As with any such projection, the farther the projection sticks out, the greater the leverage it's weight has. So, you have an interest in making the 'projections' as short as you can.
The effect is: your hinges will be set on the wall, in line with the extreme of one side. One hinge will be set as high as the top of the door; the other as low as the bottom. The hinges will connect to the door by straps.
The door latch almost has to be located at the opposite extreme, in the middle of the door. This is the only place where the hardware can be mounted 'level.'
Go watch lord of the rings and hold the picture where you see the door to bilbo baggins house.
Other movies with round door safes work the same way.
You'll see the pivot point is inline with the edge of the round side of the door. I think its done with thick strap hinges. I would make a small model first to get it working right.
Looks like it will take up a lot of swinging room.
How can you have a 5'-6" dia round door, and then go on to say it will be 6'-8"?
I agree that you just need to put three hinges in line with a tangent of the widest part of the door. It's going to take some custom hinges, or some kind of extensuions for the hinge leaves to be welded to.
"Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Sorry, 6" to 8" wide material for the doors
5'-6" seems a little smaller than code ..."Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
You can greatly reduce the space occupied by the door (and required for it to swing) by using an articulated hinge. Have a central pivot that extends top and bottom out of the door and attach your hinges to that. Then the strap hinges don't even have to pivot all the way out beyond the door edge, as the door will sort of slide sideways once it's partly open. Also, since the door pulls straight out, more or less, edge clearance problems can be reduced on a thick door.
Downside is that the lower threshold must be higher, to accommodate the bottom pivot post.
Bank vaults sometimes use something similar but with the hinge on the inside, with kind of J-shaped pieces (perhaps further articulated) linking the two pivot points for the articulated hinge. This eliminates the need to raise the threshold.
What about offsetting the pivot point? See drawings attached.
I have no idea how to do the fasteners, I'm just throwing out the concept.
here is the drawing
See my drawing, what will be in the red area?
As far as I know it will be stone
Could you split the door into four pieces?
Ahh I see what your saying, that's good idea, it would make things simple, I found some hinges online by SOSS that are used for hidden hinges,
Thank you to everyone who replied, it's given me lot's of ideas, Kev.
Sorry I don't have any solutions for you, but I have a question. The glass appears to be the half moon sections in the middle, leaving only 6" of wood framing. How do you make the outside convex wood frame strong enough for either the single hinge, or double hinge option in the last drawing???
A round door would be fun, got my curiosity going.
How do you make the outside convex wood frame strong enough for either the single hinge
For solid wood, a bent lamination. For a lighter frame, a torsion box. Both are strong enough.
I used a combination here, with a standard sliding door lite in the center. 48" wide, swing easily. One has a surrounding door (75x96), swings fine.
Single hinge/door would be my choice for this project. Massive, and through-bolted. Might not be available off-the-shelf. Like the door.
PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
Bent lamination is what I was thinking. Worked most of it out in my head before I could fall asleep fri. night. Would be fun to try.
You still sittin' there? Or are you slicing lumber? <G>
I've got arch-topped doors and windows all around the house here. Fun it is. And strong. With doors and frames, you've gotta watch out for the differing radii.PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
So, while i've got your ear. How thick on the laminations. I was thinking 1/8", or would you need to go thinner? probably depends on the radius.
I'll be cutting tonight. but it's a hickory mantel. Wife says finish the fireplace b4 christmas or else. Stone comes tomorrow.
P.S. Love that door. Know you've posted it before. Wish all door were that wide for loading things in and out.
Edited 12/19/2007 11:54 am ET by deskguy
Probably a little late for your cutting...
All depends on the wood and the radius. Mantle of hickory, doesn't sound like a tight bend. Might very well get by with 1/4" or thicker. Hope you have sufficient clamps.
I always do a test bend, figure fewer plies are better. Almost always works out. A number of years ago I laminated a mahogany table skirt, 3' radius. Looked great, resorcinol glue so I left it clamped overnight. Upon taking the clamps off the next morning, I got a pile of splinters. Routed the mess off and redid it with thinner plies. Mahogany has little internal strength.
Unlike hickory.
6" radius of redwood for a window, 1/8" was fine. I presume you know that grain orientation is crucial. Boring boards (zero figure) make best plies.
Good to know you're having fun. Don't forget to post a picture. Whatever the outcome. <G>PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
Why hide the hinges? If you do this in pieces, you could put those hinges right out in the open. I get the impression that's what's wanted.
So it's a split door, just round on the top side? Should be able to hinge it conventionally if you want, one hinge at the midline and one low, with maybe a 3rd in-between.I'd actually mount the door-side hinges on a separate vertical member that can slide up and down slightly relative to the door, adjusted by a hidden bolt somewhere. You could also arrange for the jamb-side hinges to be adjustable in and out a bit.
If your view never changes you're following the wrong leader
Actually the bottom triangle bits are stone work as well
OK, then you could use the articulated scheme without adding threshold height, since the pivots wouldn't be at the center. But the advantage of the articulated scheme is less since there's less of a clearance problem.I think I'd just go with 2-3 straps. Figuring out how to adjust them is the trick. (Well, that and figuring out how to keep the doors from falling apart.) Would work best if the straps cross all the way to the center vs just attaching to the outside edge.Also, you want to do a swag on the weight of the doors, and make sure the hinges are appropriately rated. You probably need ball-bearing hinges, somehow concealed behind wrought iron.
If your view never changes you're following the wrong leader
Some of the responses here just show how ubiquitous Google Sketchup has become.
Just what the boys in silicon valley intended. I think it's great!
What you've drawn needs to be recessed to the back side of the frame, as an inswing door in a stone wall, the door would otherwise hit the jamb and would not be able to open 90 degrees.
Also, if it's a true room door, it has to be a (taller) minimum height, like 6'-6" or 6'-8"
Jeff
Edited 12/16/2007 2:01 am ET by Jeff_Clarke
That doesn't look like a round door in the drawing. It looks like an arch top pair of doors with embellishment to appear round
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Perhaps this will help
http://www.taunton.com/finehomebuilding/how-to/articles/inside-hobbit-house.aspx
I think there are some other references to it here in the forum, but the search doesn't seem to be working for me as of now.
View Image
http://dkgoodman.com/2006/10/trip-to-shire.html
hey post a pic. when ur done. I'd like to see it when it's done
Along with other peoples' suggestions for looking at movies and such--how about just going to your local laundromat?--most dryer doors and all front load washer doors are round, but then, they are special and have metal frames and so on. I was also going to say look on board ships and boats--portholes and hatches. Tank cars too (and oil tanks in refineries, for that matter).
think of how you would hinge a marine porthole... should work the same
p
I like IMERC's center hinge thought, as in this picture
http://www.megawood.com/Megawood_Vertical-Pivot_Doors.asp
Mike
Trust in God, but row away from the rocks.
A center hinge would force the user to squeeze against the door, due to the sloping sill. Not very practical. You perhaps could split the door and do two "center" hinges, one on each side, but the curvature of the door opening would cause problems.I think I'd try to talk the HO into making it a vaulted door vs circular. Make the red area part of the door. Less dramatic but more practical all around.
If your view never changes you're following the wrong leader
at first i thought you were talking star trek, but after viewing the drawings i'm glad you went with lord of the rings.
Every day is a gift, that's why it's called the present.
try this one
http://www.taunton.com/finehomebuilding/how-to/articles/inside-hobbit-house.aspx?
...The unspoken word is capital. We can invest it or we can squander it. -Mark Twain...
Be kind to your children....they will choose your nursing home.
...aim low boys, they're ridin' shetland ponies !!
Google up Horton Brasses They make strap hinges and pintles from wrought iron that'll complement your round door design.
They are also available with ball bearings for extremely heavy doors The straps are through- bolted with carriage bolts and the pintles are fastened to either masonry or heavy wood framed openings If you choose to mount the door as an 'overlap, the masonry alone will suffice.
In either case, (whether flush or overlap,) the offsets of the eyes (In the straps) and the pins (in the pintle)must be calculated to provide clearance when the door is opened so as not to bind on th architrave.
Straps are mounted after the pintles are attached to the wall and plumbed. AND the door is rigidly wedged and shimmed in place
Position the straps parallel to each other and leveled
The holes in the straps are scribed and then drilled through the strap holes while a helper snug's up the nuts on the other side.
Edited 12/18/2007 7:38 pm ET by Steinmetz