Here I was, thinking that I’d get gas fire logs for my 1930’s fireplace instead of having to burn wood. I really don’t like the idea of keeping a cord out back when I don’t have fires that often, and I also like the idea of a fake, but real looking, fire being spontaneously started and stopped quickly without a lot of effort. Now I find that the codes require that the chimney draft be modified to be constantly open after the gas logs are installed. In the concept of the anti-syphoning outside bibs, this is apparently to prevent a drunken doofus from forgetting to open the draft before firing up his gas logs, thus killing he and his family with CO. Well, I don’t want my chimney drafting 24/7 for the few times I will run the gas logs. Too bad I didn’t do this a few years ago, when I would have now been grandfathered.
So, I’ll look for a source of less than a cord of wood, maybe for ten fires, and I’ll hope not to burn down my house in the process. I’ll certainly have the draft open during that time.
Replies
Would code allow for a N/C actuated damper? Especially since the fire is already mechanically/electrically controlled for ignition and extinguish, a relay would be easy to tie to that on/off switch.
Or does it have to constantly draft because of a pilot light and could be switched to an ignition coil?
I just watched TOH last night when I couldn't sleep. They were putting in an insert and gas log question came up. The response was that gas logs are not allowed to have a damper because carbon monoxide exhaust can't be seen or smelled.
This is the same thing that I was told by a fireplace shop in Washington.
BTW, look at fireplace xtrodinair. they have some nice stuff
http://www.customfireside.com/browse.php?cat=Brands&val=Fireplace
Thanks. I believe that carbon monoxide is the issue. If the HO didn't open the damper and lit the logs (many can be done with a remote control), then there's a problem. I'm seeing codes becoming more restrictive when they are written to save idiots from themselves.
Kinda sucks, though, in that you have to destroy a fireplace to install a gas unit.
As I stood before the gates I realized that I never want to be as certain about anything as were the people who built this place. --Rabbi Sheila Peltz, on her visit to Auschwitz
Many models of ventless gas logs available ...
http://homebuying.about.com/cs/gaslogs/a/ventfree_logs.htm
AGA-approved ventless log sets have oxygen depletion sensors.
Petersen is among the best - http://www.efireplacestore.com/pts-efvg18-24-manualn.html
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Of course, they don't put out any heat to speak of.
As I stood before the gates I realized that I never want to be as certain about anything as were the people who built this place. --Rabbi Sheila Peltz, on her visit to Auschwitz
Uh, 35,000 BTUs
Jeff
Would you put a ventless gas anything in your own house? Personally, I think it's nuts, but it is the largest share of gas fireplace installs.Not trying to be contentious, just askin'...http://www.tvwsolar.com
We'll have a kid
Or maybe we'll rent one
He's got to be straight
We don't want a bent one
He'll drink his baby brew
From a big brass cup
Someday he may be president
If things loosen up
i've got 2 of them.ventless
if your a guy that wants a fire every night,i'd pass.
mine gets fired on thanksgiving and christmas for a few hours,then every one gets hot and we shut them off.
have a woodburner in the basement,burned wood 1 time just to see it work.
whoever would put a woodburner in a basement needs to work a little harder during the day. cause when i get home i'm not carring wood downstairs to burn and then carry ashes upstairs.the older i get ,
the more people tick me off
I thought about putting one in a spec house, and have had a few clients want them because of the price. Maybe it's just ones I was looking at, but having to open a window to safely burn a fire seems a little crazy<G>http://www.tvwsolar.com
We'll have a kid
Or maybe we'll rent one
He's got to be straight
We don't want a bent one
He'll drink his baby brew
From a big brass cup
Someday he may be president
If things loosen up
i really think thats a cover your rear deal. i've never opened a window.but that said if i was to turn it on in a power outage for 20-30 hours i would want a co mointor and a window open a little.
if ours are on for a couple hours,when i walk in the house i can tell,theres a different smell. reminds me of my grandmothers gas stove at christmas.not that thats all bad.
after maybe 4 hours our co detector hasn't moved [digital] but this is a large room that basiclly opens to most of the house.the older i get ,
the more people tick me off
Kind of a sharp smell? Eyes burn a little? Precursors to carbon monoxide.
The oxygen depletion sensor, isn't really a sensor. It is a precise orifice in the pilot burner that does not support combustion when the oxygen level reaches about 18.5%. Problem with that is with O2 normally about 20.9%, that means there is 18,000 ppm of something else left to breathe.
Things that make you go hmmmmmmmm..................
Personally, I wouldn't put a ventless in any home... They are supposed to be safe but if you read the directions they say that a window has to be open while in use. I wouldn't trust them. I once had a client want one and I had him sign a release.
What about a direct vent gas insert unit? The fireplace opening would be covered with a piece of glass, so wasting heat when not using the unit would not be an issue and you don't need to have a window (or damper) open when it is in use. I guess you would still need to remove the damper though.
A quick Google brought up this web page (Heat&Glow) which is one brand I've used.
One point about a ventless is that it puts not just CO2 but also water into the air. This may be OK in a leaky home, but can lead to problems in a tight one.
As I stood before the gates I realized that I never want to be as certain about anything as were the people who built this place. --Rabbi Sheila Peltz, on her visit to Auschwitz
We have a gas stove that isn't vented anywhere, and I've not had a worry about roasting a turkey for 2-3 hours and then dying from CO. But then, I've also read of people who've died from using their gas stoves in lieu of a heating system. I don't think a ventless insert would fly in this household. Thanks for your responses. Anybody in southwestern Wisconsin got 20 split oak logs to sell?
Good point about the gas range.
With all this talk these days about indoor air quality, CO detectors, backdrafting, and the like it would seem that gas ranges can't be anything more than a liability. Yet they are considered highly desirable and an upgrade. Granted most people have a range hood that is vented to the outside but who can say they turn on the hood every time the cooktop or oven is used.... I don't get it. Can someone 'splain' it to me?
I think in your case with the 1930s house there is enough air leakage that theses things aren't as big a concern. Still, personally, I'd avoid an unvented fireplace like the plague. Just my opinion.
Edit: I started a seperate thread in the "Green" folder called Indoor air quailty and gas ranges" or similar.
Edited 10/24/2009 8:18 am ET by Matt