Evening fellas,
My tool salesman called me today. He said they’re printing up a bunch of signs for some of their loyal customers. I guess I fell into that category cuz he called me.
The signs will be 24″X18″ and will read something to the effect of “Another quality frame by XXX Contracting. All tools and fasteners supplied by YYY” I imagine that their logo will take up a better portion of the sign since they won’t cost me a dime.
I believe the intention is for me to post them on the frames I’m working on. Obviously I’d ask the permission of the GC before doing so…. if I actually intend on posting them. I’m wonder what your thoughts are on something like this?
I don’t use job signs on work where I’m a subcontractor as I think it’s a bit tacky and don’t want to steal thunder from the builder. I guess I figure that between my truck, trailer, and forklift if someone can’t figure out how to get ahold of me then I probably don’t want them getting ahold of me. I have a few yard signs, but only use them on the rare occasion that I’m working directly for a homeowner.
I really don’t care one way or the other about the signs personally. I don’t expect they’ll drum up any business for me, but if they might serve to help out my favorite tool outlet then I’m all for it. We have a really good relationship, they’re fair on pricing, most of the employees know me on a first name basis, and I’m all for supporting the small local guy. So, like I said, if I can help him I’d like to.
But I’m not sure about this gig. Tacky? Out of place? Would you allow it on your site?
Whatcha think?
Replies
Subs put up their own signs all the time around here on larger commercial projects. I wouldn't do it on a residential job, unless the sign was on a vehicle, etc. (which you already have signage on). Probably make a heckofa garage decoration, 'tho.
"he...never charged nothing for his preaching, and it was worth it, too" - Mark Twain
So that's a "no" vote Huck?View Image
no residential, yes commercial, yes vehicle or jobbox, yes garage over workbench
"he...never charged nothing for his preaching, and it was worth it, too" - Mark Twain
Edited 3/21/2006 6:51 pm by Huck
If you had not received the call, would you have ever thought to buy signs, and put them up on your job?
Speak the truth, or make your peace some other way.
Nope. Like I said, I honestly wouldn't be doing it for my business, but for his. I only use yard signs on my own jobs, not as a subcontractor.View Image
Like I said
Guess I should concentrate on reading before replying.
I don't think I'd be comfortable with the signs.
Speak the truth, or make your peace some other way.
Edited 3/21/2006 6:56 pm ET by dustinf
As a GC I don't allow it and I don't get asked often either, both residential and commercial.
I was never asked, but I would also not allow a Bosch, DeWalt, etc. sign. I don't want the site looking like an electoral campaign. When someone asks who my xyz sub is, I have no trouble giving it, as I am not in competition with any of my subs. If someone asks what tools or nails we use and if we like them, we answer honestly. I do believe in giving that kind of good references.
I also don't let dealers put license plate frames and emblems with their name on my cars. I tell them if they want to do that, then I want my advertising on their cars in exchange. There is absolute, dead silence when I say that :)
DG/Builder
I appreciate everyone's feedback. This one seems to be split just about down the middle right about now. Hmmmm.View Image
Brian,
I've only made it post 20, but since I work for a G.C. hourly (brother and father) and I know how they think, I think that on our jobsites, if the subs wanted to put out a sign, we'd allow it.
Our electrician has been working with us for 20 years or so, plumber for about 15, HVAC for about 8 or 9, painters for 20 etc. I think that they or we should advertise that fact. I may propose that now.
Or inside, since we build spec about half the time, a sign that says "another quality tile job by xxx" wouldn't be objectionable. But it'd be nice if they asked. When we hold open house, Pioneer Builder's signs aren't the only ones there. If we are going to have brochures of the materials we used in that house, why not the subs?
Good topic by the way, you always have good ones :=)
Huck said it well...Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
TX, as a custom builder offers his two cents.
I would not care if you displyed the signs on my site, but then I am usually pretty easy going, and do not worry too much about losing work to subs and / or signs.
If you wanted to do it on my site, I know I would appreciate it if you asked.
Thanks for the feedback Tex and I definitely would ask first.View Image
If you put out a good product and do quality work. (obviously so) Go for it---- with a courtesy approval from the GC of coarse.
No matter what business your in---- name brand awareness, is almost always a positive.
From the signage on your rigs to the placard on the jobsite.....keeping your name in the mainstream as much as possible is nothing but a good business practice.... the tool rep./ manufactures obviously think so with there free signs, and they invest big bucks in ad campaigns to let everyone know about there tools.
While you may not feel any immediate return on the ad, you may be surprised to here a compliment from a big builder, supplier or person of influence in the future, due to your advertising at your job site.
Edit: signs knocked over in the mud, broken, defaced etc. look more like trashy political signs two weeks after an election. So remove them at the appropiate time.
Edited 3/21/2006 9:14 pm ET by Boats234
I've got a great relationship with my nail guy too Diesel. I would just laugh at him if he proposed that.
Of course, in the next breath, I'd be asking how much I'd get for allowing it. He'd just laugh and tell me I'd get free service on my tools....which he does anyways!
I've seen a few framers put up jobsigns. I think it enhances the builder. It says that the framers are proud enough of their work to advertise it. It says that that builder is proud enough of his framers to allow their signs.
I vote no for the idea, unless there is some form of compensation.
blue
I think it enhances the builder. It says that the framers are proud enough of their work to advertise it. It says that that builder is proud enough of his framers to allow their signs.
I vote no for the idea
All right, I'm getting mixed signals from ya Blue. You just saying I shouldn't do it because I'm not charging him? You charge Makita for putting their name on your saw?
(I'm afraid of that answer)
;)View Image
I think it's Porter Cables that he uses to make sawdust with.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
If he takes care of you, i think i would try to help him out.
can always use more pencils.
If he takes care of you, i think i would try to help him out.
That pretty much sums up my feeling on the matter. I just thought I'd bounce it off some GC's and see how they'd feel about it.View Image
I wouldn't allow PC ads if they paid me. I had a real bad PC experience back in the early 80s.
blue
I had a real bad PC experience back in the early 80s.
What, it took more than a few whacks to remove your saw guard?
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
What, it took more than a few whacks to remove your saw guard?
Hehehehe. Actually, it had something to do with the table. The table was mounted out of square. By the time I realized that it was not at 90 degrees to my blade, I was beginning to question my sanity and my cutting abilitiy.
That particular saw has a sticker on it saying "Proudly Made In the USA".
USA junk!
blue
Diesel, I won't buy or wear anything that advertises someone elses product....unless I'm paid. To date, I've never been payed, so I never wear someone else's advirtisement.
I wouldn't allow my name to be pegged onto the nailguys ads.
I would want my jobsign on the jobsite.
We put our job signs onsite when we are framing. We've never had anyone complain. It says "Proudly framed by: Advanced Construction Concpets, LLC". It is small, simple and non intrusive.
If the framers aren't proud enough of their work to identify themselves, the work probably isn't that great.
I can understand why some GC's might not want our sign and of course we'd honor their requests. Around here, most builders are very poor at signage for their own work. Amazingly, most houses go up with no indication of who the builder is. The builders are so detached from their subs and building process that they don't even bother driving by the sites and thinking about marketing. That statement doesn't apply to the big nationals though.
blue
I'll get in trouble for saying this...but I laugh my #### off when I see those people who wear those NASCAR jackets platered with a million logos and signs. Not for me. Maybe it's because I race, and have been paid for sineage on the car.
But i also think it all looks tacky.
You pay him for the tools and fasteners, right? If he offers a discount on top of your normal amount, then maybe, if the GC approves.
But if it were me, I wouldn't do it even if I was paid..unless I was paid verrrrrry well.
So, no.Jake Gulick
[email protected]
CarriageHouse Design
Black Rock, CT
>> I won't buy or wear anything that advertises someone elses productWhere do you draw the line? Even Levi jeans have a tag hanging off the pocket.
Blue frames naked.View Image
That would be a sight.
The streets would be lined with hot chicks waiting to apply....
blue
:) You're the best. I'll bet you'd have to beat 'em off ya with a 2x4 or use your speedsquare like a chinese throwing star. Just for that, I'm sending you an MGC company t-shirt.View Image
He may as well use it for a throwing star he doesn't use it for anything else so I've heard.You're entitled to sh!t.---Tony Soprano
If you stand one up on its edge, it can be used as a hemmoroid popper.
blue
That paints almost as bad of picture as you framing naked. You're entitled to sh!t.---Tony Soprano
I buy offbrands.
If I did buy levis, I'm not so anal that I'd look for that little tag and rip it off.
I just don't wear shirts with logos, or sweathshirts with printing on it. I've refused dozens of teeshirts and sweatshirts and hats over the years.
blue
I love lumberyard apparrel.
I have 3 different yards competing for my buisiness, they all give me & the crew teeshirts ,sweatshirts ,hats,jackets ,etc. .
I wear this stuff exclusivly, But am always certain to be wearing lumberyard A's stuff when visiting lumber yard B or C . It gets you more free stuff!
Jay,My favorite shirt is a James Hardie pocket tee that I got for free. I don't know what it is about free shirts but you gotta love them.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
A Pella dealer came by our jobsite the other day and handed me some brochures and I had many questions and explained why I don't buy their product (one being that their state showroom is located adjoining a showroom for a large competitor/builder). He handed a sweatshirt to me and my compadre.He sported his new sweatshirt on the job the next day, I kept mine at home. Why sport the logo of something I have no intention of selling to customers? Makes no sense.I would have no problem with a sub asking to put up their own sign on a job, although the homeowner would certainly have to ok it first and I wouldn't want it to compete with ours. But a product advertiser, whether tools or windows, that's going a little too far. Maybe in a subdivision or a large commercial project, but not the front yard of some homeowner's property. What would come next? A flashing blue light at four o'clock advertising "Moonlighter's Specials! Showplowing, attic cleaning and window washing while you sleep!"
Duct cleaning!
DG/Builder
I have my local lumberyard's name on my trailer, brochures, and website. It is not a very big logo and I keep it on the bottom or in the corner somewhere out of the way. They pay around 30% of my marketing costs. They do this kind of co-op marketing with alot of GC's around here.Greg
Hi Jon.
I've thought about your post to me some more. You seemed the most adamant about not having a sub hang a sign on one of your jobs. You explained how hard you've worked for local recognition of your own "brand". All very good points and all make good sense to me.
But I thought of another way to look at it too, and thought maybe you'd give me some feedback of your take on this. If you hang new Pella windows on your job or lay down Advantech subflooring, I'm going to assume you don't run through and peel all of their stickers off the windows or black out the product names? Same goes with other good namebrand quality materials that you put into your projects. You probably leave them because you're proud of the fact that you build with name brand, well recognized, quality materials. Why wouldn't you look at the use of one of your subs the same way? If your subs do a nice job for you and your proud of the additions that make to your project, why wouldn't you be proud to have your customers and potential customers begin to recognize your subs as a name brand too? You're not in competition with your subs, so what would the harm be?
View Image
Brian,You bring up some good points, and two years ago I would probably have agreed with you.you're proud of the fact that you build with name brand, well recognized, quality materials.This is true, but I would say that most of our subs are not focused on working for the general public.If your subs do a nice job for you and your proud of the additions that make to your project, why wouldn't you be proud to have your customers and potential customers begin to recognize your subs as a name brand too? You're not in competition with your subs, so what would the harm be?Well, if they're not in competition with us then why do they want to post the sign? I don't want to come across as plotting to keep my subs down, but I also don't want to encourage potential customers to decide they can circumvent our services.Honestly, my biggest issue is that we spend a good amount of money and effort to develop our presence in the area, and I can't imagine diluting that presence would be beneficial. I could be wrong.Another thing is I think a lot of clients might not appreciate having their front lawn looking like an election year. On an average addition we probably use 12 subs. If half of them deposited a sign it would get crowded rather quickly.Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
Edited 3/24/2006 7:13 pm ET by JonBlakemore
You make more good points. I can't really dispute any of them.... especially making your customer's yard look like a giant rolodex. I just thought I'd try to throw another angle out there to have a look at.
I will comment on this one though:
Well, if they're not in competition with us then why do they want to post the sign?
Because if I only worked for one GC, I'd go broke pretty fast. It's not just customers/clients that drive by looking at new work. Other builders are watching your progress as well. I get a lot of new work from GC's scoping out sites, taking a peek at our work, and then leaving a set of plans behind for me to price. We've got to get our names out there as much as you guys do.... it's just that we're targeting different audiences.View Image
You could give us some free signs at JCL.
see if they'll give you something in return for their advertising, maybe a discount on fasteners, repair work, or tools...
what's the name of the store, if you don't feel like posting it, e-mail me, I might just have to see it when I'm in Boston next.
Neil, my supplier is New Hampshire Tool Outlet in Salem, NH (just over the border). Good guys, very good store, caters to framers and finish carps. They get it.
I wouldn't feel right asking for compensation. It'd be like a GC telling me he's going to charge me for parking my lettered truck on his site. I know someone (Blue?) is going to hang me for saying that, but it's just how I feel. I actually kinda felt honored that they asked me to participate in the program.View Image
As a GC I don't allow any signs.
Lettered trucks & equipment is very professional looking, signs are a distraction at first , then an eyesore, at least in residential work.
Most homeowners don't approve either.
To some extent I agree. I've seen sites where the front yard starts to look like a gigantic Vegas rolodex by the time the hardwoods are getting finished. Tacky, to say the least.
I'm thinking that while I'm doing my work (framer) I'm usually the only one on site for the majority of the time. Even if the sign just stayed tacked to the sheathing of the garage until the siding went on, it might serve it's purpose and not over stay it's welcome.View Image
We almost always let the subs put up signs. I have said no to a few oversized or tacky ones and I always give the sub a specific location .
I think it keeps civilians off the job site if they are looking for trades if they can jot down a # off a sign.
Also has come in handy in a situation where we had a wind storm and the roofers trash got blowed around the niehgborhood on a long weekend.His phone rang because his sign was up front.
Rik
put the sign on yur trailer...
might be a trade off....
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Around here, those free signs are often a sign of a fly by night outfit. Tacky, very tacky.
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
I'm all for job site signs ...
just not this one.
but ... I like the idea of putting it on the trailer ...
tell them to get one in vinyl to stick on ... like a nascar driver!
maybe U can cobble up a nice weatherproof display deal it can slip into ... lexan .... coupla screws ... aluminum frame.
Then ... ask what the additional discount on materials will be.
who buys the materials direct? Why can't they just cut a deal with the GC for 3% off and they get the whole yard sign to themselves?
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Brian,
You would not have that sign on my site.
We've spent a lot of time and effrot developing our "brand" and a pretty significant portion of that brand (IMO) is our logo (thanks Mike).
Having multiple signs on the job will tend to look cluttered and possibly confuse the potential client about who's who.
I just read in Remodeling magazine about a window replacement contractor who would get jobs because people would say "we just feel like we know you even though we've never done work with you". That's what we're going for, maybe not across the whole town but in the certain circles that we would like to frequent the goal is to have the people "know" us even if we've never met. An effective use of a logo is very important to this end.
Of course I'm rambling and not saying anything you don't know already, but I want my subs to succeed but not at the expense of the lifeblood of our marketing efforts.
Jon Blakemore
RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
I didn't read all the posts but my vote is it's tacky, anytime. Read the side of my van. I have an old grain truck that we use for garbage with no sign on it and people always come up to me and tell me where I am working because my unmarked truck is there. Go figure.
Well... the people have spoken. I think I'm going to politely decline their offer. After sleeping on it, it's a little more clear to me. I never felt it right to put my own job signs out where I'm a sub, so it doesn't make much sense to put one up for someone else. Guess I was blinded by flattery.... I'm a sucker like that. ;)
If nothing else, I've learned that the unwritten rules of jobsigns seems like a regional thing. And no matter which side of the fence you're on, it also seems like everyone is passionate about their position. Interesting.
Thanks again gang.View Image
One option is suggest your NH tool rep talk directly to the GC of the job and then its something between the two of them. At that point it would be like the National Lumber, Stock building supply, etc. signs that have all their info and say lot 7, etc. The lumber signs are usually only up through the frame so it's not as if it were an intersection before election day.
Around this area, I've seen Harvey Industries with signs that are similar to what is proposed to you. Harvey has a pretty good rep around here, so they will get some business out of the deal. Those are always remodels too.
Tell em you want to see a sample sign first. Then mail it to me when you decline. That would look bad azz over my work bench.
As far as your question. I don't know if I'd do it or not. I'm fence sitting.
Na na-na-na-na na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na na-na-na-na !I need somebody to help me say it one time!
My last two work trucks had magnetic signs on them. As a guy who subbed for a bunch of different shops and in a phase of construction where builders always seem to think they can cut the shop you sub for out and just pay you directly, I never wanted the appearance that I was fishing someone elses pond. It was easy to just pull them off and slap them on the back wall of the cab in the morning.
Not all GC's, or shops, or builders feel the same about it. Some of the guys I subbed from couldn't have cared less. Others made it a pont to mention the signs and how they would preffer I didn't display them on their jobs.
One even said I was welcome to put as many signs as I wanted out so long as I didn't take any stair work as a result of them. But, He did want a cut for " Letting " me have my truck lettered ( Wanna guess how long that relationship lasted?).
you should be flattered that they were interested in you, but the whole thing sounds like it might be a problem later on.
Signs in general are good.
If I was GC though......a sign for a sub could be seen by another GC, could cost me that sub. I, as the GC, would want something from the tool co in return for taking that risk.
So.....if you could get the tool co to offer some sort of discounts to the GC, (ie. treat him like they treat you) you would all be in a win/win situation.