I am not a plumber. I could use some advice, please.
I have a Cuno Aqua Pure NFS model water softener in my basement. It’s about 5 years old. No trouble with it up to now.
Just took a peek at the brine tank this morning to check the level of softener crystals and found the tank about half full of water with about a foot of crystals remaining at the bottom.
I don’t remember ever seeing more than 4 or 5 inches of water at the bottom of the tank before. The system regenerated last night on its timer.
Is this unusual or something to be worried about?
Thanks for any help.
Mike
Replies
Something is plugged.
Different units have different behaviors, but this sounds like a problem. If there's a way to do a manual regen, run a regen cycle and see if that clears it up.
If it still appears to have a problem (but the regen cycle seemed normal sound-wise) then likely the valve at the bottom of the tube that dips into the tank is clogged somehow, or possibly there's a malfunction in the timer-operated valve unit.
Thanks for the advice Dan. After posting my question I ran a regeneration cycle manually. And I added some Iron Out down the tube (called the "brine well" in my instruction manual) in the brine tank.
It seemed to be fine - at least, it sounded fine and water passed up through the discharge tube on the rinse portions of the cycle. No change in the water level in the brine tank though.
Still exploring.
Mike
OK, then probably it is not "drawing" during the brining cycle. There is a venturi gizmo either in the head or in the valve at the bottom of the well (depending on design) that "draws" the brine through the unit. Something is preventing that from working.First remove the valve assembly from the well and make sure nothing is stuck/bent/broken. If not that, and not a air leak in the lines down the well (you should be able to test them pretty well by blowing in them), then you'll have to crack the head open.(It help to have a manual, of course. Look around for yours, or go to the manufacturer's web site to find a PDF.)
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
The unit is putting water into the brine tank at the end of the regen cycle, as it should, but has failed to draw the brine when it should have. Consequently, the water level in your tank is now higher than it should be and the media hasn't really been regenerated.
A very common cause for this problem is that there is an air leak in the small tubing which runs from the unit's head to the brine tank. A leak in that tubing means that no suction can be developed to draw the brine, but the crack doesn't interfere with injecting water into the tank. Look that tubing over for signs of even a tiny crack. If there's a crack, you'll have to replace the tubing with new. If the crack is very big at all, you'd probably have some water on the floor, too.
If no crack is found, try tightening the compression fittings on either end of that tubing just a tad (one at the head and one probably inside the brine tank).
If you want, you can do a quick test for suction by removing the end of the tubing in the tank and forcing the head into the brine draw function of the regen cycle. Hold your finger tightly over the end of the tubing. If you can feel the suction, you're good to go.
Another possiblily is that the injector screen is being plugged by gunk during the brine draw. Frequently, this little screen is right behind the control head end of that small tubing. Remove tube, pull screen out, clean it and reinsert.
Edited 4/28/2007 1:00 pm ET by HootOwl
Thanks for the reply and advice Hoot.
I spoke too soon in my last post - the regen cycle worked fine up to a point. During a latter part of the cycle an additional 8-10" of water was added to the excess water that already was in my brine tank.
I studies the tube and didn't observe any cracks or holes and it didn't't seem to be brittle. I tried tightening the fittings but neither seemed to tighten. I didn't apply too great a force to them because I didn't want to risk breaking them - one is brass on brass, but the other is plastic to plastic. But, I couldn't hear any hissing or sputtering from the hose or its fittings. I didn't see any screen on either end of the tube.
So, I've confirmed that it is not draining the brine water during the regen cycle but that it is adding water.
I drained the brine tank, took it outside and dumped out the remaining loose/fresh salt, and flushed the tank out. I checked as much of the tank and mechanism as I could and everything seemed normal. Surprisingly, there was a good 3" of solidified salt at the bottom of the brine tank that I had to break up and manually remove.
And, yes, in case anyone reading this is concerned about the environment, I cleaned up the remaining salt instead of leaving it lying on the ground and am disposing of it as if it were a toxic element.
Unfortunately it's Saturday so both Cuno and the local plumbing supply house are closed. I'll have to wait till Monday to obtain any Tech Support from Cuno or to obtain another tube running between the control head and the brine tank (in case the old one has an invisible crack in it).
Thanks to all who responded.
Mike
Odds are the problem is in the control head. Do you have a parts diagram for it?
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
It was a long, long time ago, but I had a similar problem and gunk had built up inside the valves in the head.
Besides cleaning everything out, the solution was installing a filter ahead of the softner.
Yeah, a filter ahead of the softener is a good idea in any event, if your water tends to have any silt, sand, or rust in it.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
Thanks for the advice. I'll probably be buying and installing a new filter on Monday because my water, from a private well in my front yard, does contain a good deal of sand and rust particles.
Seems logical that water with particles in it would foul the valves and filters in a softener, so I don't want to have to go through all this work fixing the softener in another year.
Just occurred to me: On our old Sears unit (now have a Kinetico) there was a small compartment to one side of the main control head. Unscrew the cover of that and you found the venturi and a filter screen, easily cleaned.You might want to check your unit for something similar.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
I had a plumber in nearly a year ago because the whole house water filter was leaking around the fittings. His solution was to remove the whole thing saying that since I had a softener, that I didn't need a separate filter.
Guess he was wrong, huh?
I have the owner's manual from Cuno which does have several schematic diagrams. Seems the valve assembly in the brine tub is one complete part - doesn't seem to allow for replacement of anything but the whole part.
Well, dang. Removing that filter may not have been such a good idea.
You may have a problem that could require some head disassembly and parts, but will suggest that you double-check the easiest problems and fixes first just to be more certain.
Remove the small tubing completely, plug one end with your finger while you suck on the other end. Flex the tubing around while you do this to see if you can break the suction at all. If you can't, then the problem isn't likely with the tubing itself.
Next look those compression fittings over to make certain that there isn't a cracked compression collar which would cause suction failure.
And check out what Dan H said as regards an alternate location for the injector screen as that's a definite possibility. There may be a large-ish plastic screwhead very nearby the the tubing connection on the head and behind that screwheaded plug will be the injector screen. The screen may be plugging with floating bits of gunk only during the suction of the brine-draw.
I have two Cuno heads here, but neither is an NFS series, am not familiar with NFS and I can't find a reference to an NFS model at the site. Whether day-clock heads or metering heads, the majority are either Fleck heads or Autotrol heads these days. Parts schematics and helpful guidance for the various models on both of these control-head brands (as well as other brands) can be found here should you need to investigate or rebuild the internal parts (usually spacers and o-rings).
http://softenerparts.zoovy.com/category/0600/
Sorry, I had a typo in my original posting. It's not a model NFS - it's a model NWS.
Here's the URL for Cuno's web page on this line of Water Softeners (Not sure if the link is active):
http://www.aquapure.com/sysproducts/bignws100.html
That's all the information Cuno provides. The company doesn't even offer a downloadable owner's manual! Cheap or dumb???
I'll research the web site you provided (thank you) and investigate what's involved in servicing the head myself. At the outset I can truly say I'm a tad inhibited by the thought of doing it myself. I'll see what tech advice Cuno offers on their 800 number tomorrow.
Not much to go on from the pic of the unit or their detail sheet as regards which head it is. Best guess is that it's this head-cover on the unit which would mean that it could be one of many different Fleck models. http://softenerparts.zoovy.com/product/346023211
Maybe there's a little tag somewhere which tells you which make and model. If not you'll have to go to the Zoovy page and use the- identify your softener- link until you find the head diagram which matches what you have in your hands. Then return to the DIY page to find your particular head, it's diagram and the part kits, if you need new parts.
Tearing into these things really isn't something to be all that concerned about so long as you're a bit mechanically inclined and proceed carefully and logically. It's just pieces and parts. Most repairs can be done in under an hour total, if you have some experience and already have the parts in hand. Unplug the unit, then make sure you either turn to bypass or shut off the incoming supply. I'd just turn the bypass so you still have water supply in the house while you investigate and replace any parts. As soon as you go to bypass, turn the big dial (presuming Fleck head) to the backwash position to relieve the standing pressure in the head or you'll get a little wet when you start disassembly. Then just go slow in a logical disassembly order and keep track of where each part came from. Some screws may be longer than others, etc. Note such things and see to it that everything gets back where it came from. Use the service hints Zoovy provides and the head diagram to help you along, particularly at reassembly time if your memory balks as to which part goes where. Or take pics as you proceed with taking things apart.
Don't remove the head from the tank unless you absolutely have to. Removing the head can easily also raise the distribution tube a bit. If that should happen, you may have to dump the entire tank and reload the contents from scratch to get the head back on. Pain in the butt. See resin replacement link for a how-to.
If your brine draw problem is inside the head, I won't be surprised if it turns out to be an o-ring that has a knick or tear in it or has become dislodged from its groove. Or maybe an orifice is plugged with gunk. One of your local plumbing supply houses or water conditioning services may have any parts you need on hand. If not, you'll have to mail order or call Cuno.
Edited 4/29/2007 10:43 pm ET by HootOwl
The filter sounds like a good idea. It will have to be serviced occasionally though.
I have a calendar that I put service dates on. It helps to take a calendar at the beginning of the year and put service dates on it for equipment in the house.
Having a well can be a pain. Some wells have bacteria in them that cause that "gunk" to clog up things.
Here is a link to a website that has some info on well water. Probably more info than you want. http://www.wellowner.org
We just sold our house so the county came out and looked at our septic system and our well. We had total coloform bacteria in the water so I had to chlorinate the whole water system. Then the softener had to be regenerated a few times before the water was soft again. I still have to disinfect the RO unit. Anything that has filters in it is hard to disinfect.
I can't wait to be on city water again. Our well water is VERY hard and smells like sulfur occasionally.
Yeah, filters can be a problem on a well. I suspect a sand separator would be OK, though, and probably some sorts of self-flushing filters.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin