What do you do to ensure your lumberyard ships what you order? Mine is getting stuff wrong on most deliveries.
Don’t advise me to switch suppliers. I am working with the best of a small lot.
Six weeks before framing started, I went over my whole enclosure package with the salesman, and we highlighted every item that required special ordering. Everything.
Two weeks before the first delivery was required, we went over the list again, to focus on the “stock” lumber, sheet goods, etc. I said to get things reserved for the job in case of shortages.
My whole package is broken down into releases, labeled “mainfloor wallframes,” “second floor deck structural,” etc.
Now we are in the thick of it, and we get 5/8 OSB when 1/2 was ordered, 1 LVL when 3 are required, all kinds of screwups.
One builder here that I know of, insists that the load tallies all be preprinted well in advance of picking and shipping, and faxed to him, so he can compare their lists to his releases. I may start doing the same.
What do you do?
Replies
Best suggestion I could come up with is a face to face meeting with the manager or owner. Explain to them how serious these mistakes are from your perspective - How much it costs you when you have to spend time dealing with the wrong stuff. And how much it costs THEM when they have to make a 2nd or 3rd trip to sort out the problems.
It could be that they're not aware of the poroblem, or at least not aware of how serious it is.
Health care costs are outrageous. I went in for surgery and there was a two-pint minimum.
Could be they have a bunch of Jagoffs working there that could not get a job anywhere else so they work at a lumber yard! That is how it is here anyway. It is too bad that you don't get the same service as the big fish when you are a little fish.
The advise of meeting with the owner/ director sounds good. Generally when you go to the top you get results. For a little while anyway. Hope they get it right for you.
Mr. Micro, you know I love you, right? But You piss everyone off.
I don't do a fraction of what you do, but I know where I am ordering from. Salesmen? Ya, when I get to know one they are gone.
When I am ready to wreck wood, here is how it goes... I order a drop. Do you see how simple that is? Here is my list...
Second drop, la la, and here are your returns.
What do I do with problems? If I have a prob, I save it for a deal on a special order. I bet I could call and have your list delivered by noon, but maybe I am spoiled.
You know what? If something is holding up a job, I know where to get it within a day.
But there ya go, your jobs are perfect, and I keep mine on time because I am a screwup. Maybe for 30 years I figured out how to keep my arse outta hot water. What is funny is you would never hire me. I wouldn't call you back fast enough, I wouldn't pucker up, I wouldn't hold your hand, I would flip out when you hung me out to dry because materials weren't there, etc..
The above was free, take it for what is it worth. If your eyes aren't rolling too bad, I wanted to tell you, I loved the pix of that house you posted. Very sweet! I loved it.
looks like ya got 3 choices...
switch.....
bitch....
or make a friend.
Do ya order from the same guy each time? I do.
He knows me. I even get the same discount I got when working for my last company ...they did tons of work....I do pounds.
I get their discount because he knows me .....he's my friend. I call ...he's out to lunch ...or on the other phone ....I either call back or leave my name. I won't order thru the guy standing next to him. He knows that.
I don't have to bitch. But at places where I have to shop for stuff my guy don't stock....I bitch if need be ...I ask nice once....maybe even "remind" once after that .....but if I have to ....I bitch like an old pro. I find I get my stuff right as much as most..but I get it fixed way quicker.
Be diplomatic .....sorta.....in the smart-#### kinda way .....at first ..then get down right indignant. Learned it from my Dad ....worked for him ...works for me .....it's all in the delivery.
Probably alot of what Qtr's talking about.
Jeff
Buck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Fine Carpentery.....While U Waite
Couldn't agree more Jeff!
Now excerpts from your post will probably get dissected in another thread because you're not a hand-holding milk-toast! :-)
This supplier is getting all my business. 100 percent. Stock items get rushed out on a pickup, if I need them. It is mostly the stuff he has to turn around and special order that is coming in wrong. And in the market I am in, a whole lot of what you guys can readily get in the larger population centers, ain't stocked, and is shipped in on a once-weekly schedule.
My project's floor frame system, in addition to the plain ole lumber, has nine line items of variously sized LVLs, two sizes of Parallam posts, five different SKUs of hangers, and two different special order heavy custom hangers. As I said, the order was firmed up months ago and given to the supplier. I requested that everything be ordered and brought into the yard early, in order to be on hand when released. It was promised to be done, but not carried out.
When released and delivered, the LVLs had shortages or complete no-ships on three of the nine line items, we are short or have none of every type of hanger, and the story on the customs is that the order "got lost." My framer is pissed.
I have decided to develop a method whereby they fax their order writeups to me for review and approval, after I give them my P.O.s. It is the only way I can verify in advance that they will get it right. I am dealing directly with the owner on everything now (he lives nearby, actually everyone lives nearby) but things are apparently getting mishandled in the back office.
Ya, I live in the incredibly highly populated state of New Hampshire, but I know who has what and can get things. I sub more than not, and I am always hearing this or that won't be here for a week. Bah, I get it myself so I can get done.
Micro, good for you for being loyal to your supplier, but they sound like they are burning you. I like how you want to improve the foodchain, and I might suggest a couple of things. First, your inquiries months in advance mean nothing, order your deliveries 10 days in advance. If your stock is short, make phone calls. The first one would be to your lumber yard, and ask where you can pickup what you need. Your special items, get them in your hand, don't wait until the last minute, or know someone that can fab them up in a day.
The thing I am trying to point out is that you have your needs, and they are not the norm, so the failures fall upon your shoulders. Ultimately you are to blame, and you need to resolve this, and obviously that is what you want to do.
You also need to understand, especially in a small market, you need to have many sources, I have dozens.
For a hundred percent of your business, he should learn to quit screwing you around.
bUt you are operating as though in a perfect world. Most lumberyards are not perfect. I have to realize that and oeperate within an imperfect system. I erxpect that they would lose track of an order placed a couple of months ago. Or that even if the guy in charge had ordered some LVLs especially for me and they say around for six weeks that some driver in the yared would make a mistake and send them to the wrong job or another salesman would "borrow" them to sell to another customer and forget to re-order.........
I know that windows and cabinets are three to six weeks out.
I know that LVLs are a week out.
Some other things are ten days, depending...
So that's how far in advance of my need I place the order.
Sending 1/2" instead of clearly written 5/8" means that the truck driver can't read. But overall, if you go out of your way to help the driver with scgheduling and unloading help and treat them with respect, they will make sure to treat you like a special guy. Lots of little papers don't mean much to drivers. Respect, help, and a cold drink does.
Sometimes they will try too hard to help me too much. LOL. The other day I ordered some framing nails for my Palode Impulse and I needed some yellow cartrdges for my Paslode Trimpulse.
"OOps! Piffin needs the red cartridges for these nails" assumption. So I got to wait a day for the cartrtidges - but I had ordered two days ahead of runing out anyway - no big deal..
Excellence is its own reward!
How about a reality check here.
My take on this is you are not a builder, but a homeowner.
You also expect nothing but perfection.
If you are buying 100k$ of materials from this place for a one time project, and are demanding more time and work from them than regulars who buy ten times that amount a year on an ongoing basis, what do you expect.
what you are demanding from them DOES cost!
why should they give you all that extra effort when they have thier core of regulars who give them alot more busines for a lot less hassle.
Would you be willing to pay a premium for premium service?
Just playing devils advocate here.
some times it helps to see it from the other side.
Good luck with your home!Mr T
Do not try this at home!
I am an Experienced Professional!
Piffin
Just a side note to the discussion, if you need yellow cartridges and all you have is red, change out the tops, and vice versa.
Its the tops on the canisters that make the difference, not the cartridge.
Doug
I'm here in flyover country and the lumberyards do get it right most of the time--(if they've got it, they probably try to get some of it from your lumberyard)
One lumberyard here in town got real serious about having two guys (other than the loader) check the load (for any order over 100$). They realized how much these mess ups cost everybody. It works. It can seem silly to those who haven't experienced the other. The effect it has had on me is to not care about higher prices due to their efficiency (on smaller orders).
Thanks, I knew that. I think they call them metering carburators. You can only use one a few times before it is cruddy and innaccurate..
Excellence is its own reward!
Piffin
Fingered that you knew, not sure though.
It works in a pinch.
Doug
story of my life ...
oh well....
"hand holding milk-toast"...
I like that!
I owe ya one.....
feel free to use ...."hike up yer skirt Mary".....
sometimes followed by ...."and grow a set".....
Jeff
Buck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Fine Carpentery.....While U Waite
Followed by; "slap 'em to sleep and snatch 'em bald headed."
Around here the larger lumber yards who supply to builders who have a account will give a 5% kick back if the order in not correct. I have had problems 1 time.
The first thing that I did was to get a list of product number for the things that I would be ordering most frequently. In my case I don't work witht he little guys, I don't have to time to dela with wrong orders. Next the first order they screwed up cost them. I went straight to the top and talked to the store manager and he had to come and pick up the crap they sent that was not on the order.
Now when I fax the order to them, they initial the order and fax back the store copy for approval by me. Then when approved it is delivered the next day. The shipping list is double checked before it comes off the truck. Any problems at any stage and the manager see my cell phone number on his caller id, he was to keep my business instead of the competition getting it.
It pays to take the time to fax the order and have them tell me what they recieved. And the order I fax to them is using their item number and the quantity that I want delivered. By taking the time to get their numbers I saved them an opportunity to screw it up.
Just my 2 cents,
Theresa Riley
Honeydoos-Irving Texas
My releases use their SKU#s for everything they stock. So I am good there. The goofs apparently have been happening when the folks in the back office key the order into their system.
That is where I want to stop the goofs, by having them fax me THEIR shipping ticket version of my orders, the day before shipment, so I can verify they at least have entered the details correctly.
When I was on the GC side of commercial contracting, suppliers never shipped us anything without first showing us their shipping tickets. No advance ticket, no unload. When I was on the suppler and subcontractor side of commercial work, I had an even better opportunity to see how the various big firms manage their logistics.
Old Mr. Micro here, has been in the backoffice operations of more pro lumberyards than he can count, all up and down both coasts, and all over the middle. Seen it handled professionally and cleanly in markets as big as Phoenix, and as small as where he lives now. When he was actually working a day job, building a house every 18 months or so, he was in the fabled midwest, where the lumberyards got it right just about all the time. His jobsites were 40 to 50 miles from home, and he only could visit things a few times each week, either early AM or late PM. His framing sub ordered the pre-written releases when he needed them, and was authorized to order replenishments in cases of mistakes, shortages, or high setoff counts. It was all pretty seamless to Mr. Micro.
I thought I could get service like that here. The kind I was getting out in flyover land. The kind I know exists in a whole lot of places. Tried yard #1 last time, they screwed up. Trying another one now, and still getting hosed. It is time to do the faxback thing, I guess. The guy who owns the place I am working with now, tells me I have done everything right, nothing wrong, just says that is the way it is, the mistakes. I won't accept that. I think the ticket audits will work for me.
I hope the audits work for you hun. I have basically the same setup in the faxes going back and forth. Like I said they want to keep the business and I want my orders right. Screwups cost us both.
One other side note, never do I work with the sales rep that recieved the order that had crap in it when it was delivered. I figure is he decides I need doors when I didn't order them he can work with someone else. Even when I go into the store for something and stop at the contractors desk he does not wait on me for any reason.......it has become policy.
Theresa Riley
Honeydoos-Irving Texas
Now I'm confused....
let me get this straight ..once and for all ....
Are you a working contractor .....a builder.....or a homeowner building your own place?
Not that any of this matters ....but I get a different picture of what you do and who ya are with each post.
Don't take offense ....I'm easily confused and fascinated by small shiny objects.....
JeffBuck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Fine Carpentery.....While U Waite
I build for myself, and I build specs. This spec we are framing now will be my sixth, but only the second in my new home town here in the mountains.
Building started off as a sideline, separate from my day job, in an area where many builders could just package whole projects, subbing everything, and excellent subs were available. You could get by without knowing much, or doing anything yourself.
Up here though, it is not the same at all. Before, my framer would do a lumber takeoff and order, if I wanted him to, my drywall guy called the shots on supply and quantity, and trim shop salesman would walk and measure your whole project, seeing that all the interior doors and trim were ordered right and placed correctly upon delivery. Pretty seamless, as I said.
Thanks ...
I'm less confused now....
JeffBuck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Fine Carpentery.....While U Waite
I'm easily confused and fascinated by small shiny objects.....
It's the crap they put in that Highlife that's doing it to ya.Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the ark, Professionals built the Titanic.
no additives or preservatives......
JeffBuck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Fine Carpentery.....While U Waite
The confusion is in part because Mr Micro comes from an engineering background, if my memory serves me right. He lovingly took on the title Micro because of my observation that he sometimes seems to micro-manage the job. Apparantly his local labort supply needs that management at times - or maybe they just back off and let him do his thing.
Sorry Microman if I'm off base. I've always enjoyed participating in your projects via the drawings here..
Excellence is its own reward!
You're right, Pif, in your observation. I have come to know a number of builders here, and all save two wear the toolbelt every day on their jobs, and pretty much function as lead carpenters. They are not micro managing; they are providing clues to the clueless.
It simply doesn't get done right here unless you are there most of the time, giving direction, providing drawing interpretation, and deciding the "how do we do this?"
And you are right about me being an engineer, but most of my preretirement life was spent not in engineering but in commercial and industrial contracting, where everyone seemed like a pro, and dotting I's and crossing T's was mandatory.
Sometimnes, it's geographical.
There are regions where the guys working construction are the ones who couldn't read in school and who discoverd that playing football doesn't pay the bills.
And there are places where a majority of builders have advanced degrees in something or other.
most places we fit soemwhere in between - we cross a few I's and dot a few "t"s but we manage to get the jobs done right.
;)_.
Excellence is its own reward!
I walk into the yard with my list, and stand there at the counter with one of the two guys I trust (one's the G. Mgr, the other's a neighbor and buddy). I read it to him item by item, he keys it in while I'm there. When the invoice is printed out, I take all the small sh!t with me in my truck; the yard truck hauls out the big lifts of 2x and sheet goods later that day.
If there's a flock-up, I get on the cell and call the yard. They will make a second delivery the same day if I really need it and it's before 4pm when I call.
I ALWAYS help the driver unload, usually personally. I also help him button up his truck (re-strap the remaining load and so forth). I know all the drivers by name, all the yard pickers too.
When I had to postpone a roofing job over the winter last year, the yard stored 100 sheets of 4x8 3"-thick, special-order polyiso foam board for me no charge for six months so we didn't have to leave it on site covered with tarps and worried about thieves.
I guess I'm spoiled, but I give them as close to 100% of my business as I can and they know it--and I am FAR from their biggest customer, LOL!
PS--last winter I finally computerized, and my first big job this spring I proudly printed out a superb, professional-looking purchase order, using their codes for everything. Went to the yard and handed it across the counter. When the boys finished teasing me, they took it and assured me the load would be there in about three hours.
That one order got so screwed up I wound up charging and crediting the customer for things sent but not used, ordered but not sent, and sent but not charged for. It was a bookkeeping nightmare.
I'm going back to standing at the counter reading it out one item at a time. If it ain't broke don't fix it.
Dinosaur
'Y-a-tu de la justice dans ce maudit monde?
It is good advise to deal with the manager directly; and don't think you can't backcharge them for their mistakes.
I also ask for a copy of the delivery ticket one day before. If ANYTHING that I ask for is not delivered, it delays my payment for the entire load.
Have you ever seen the look on a driver's face when you reject a load after he's dropped it without consent? " This is not stacked the way I requested. Take it back."
As long as you keep your account up to date, and treat them with respect, you can certainly expect the same in return.
Before I start a job I always have a complete take off where I try to account for every stick and sheet. It is broken up into phases like foundation ,subfloor, first floor framing and so on. It sounds like you have a similar list. When it comes time to order I will go back to the list and fax them the segment I need at the time. Often it is way more than my truck can carry so you have to be accurate. I don't have time to fiddlef--k around going to the lumberyard 20 miles away. Besides if you have more than $300, then they deliver for free.
My faxes have columns and headings starting with Item ,Description ,Dimension , and so on modeled after the lumberyard's own tags. I try to be as specific as possible. When I order nails or sheet goods I will often say no subsitutes because they often send generic nails or OSB instead of Senco and CDX, thinking they are doing me a favor and saving me money. Once I ordered about 300, 104.25" 2x6 studs and they sent 150, 18' 2x6 instead. The salesman said "Just whack them in half, Were out of studs at the moment". Obviously the salesman doesn't do it for a living because just whacking them is a little more work than he knows. I sent them back. I specify notes like #1 FOHC for headers in a separate column. If there are questions they have my cell # to call. Being human and considering murphy's law they always do much better the more specific you are. When it comes to trim and hardwood, then I prefer to select my own but for framing I can usually trust that the quality will be good from my local yard.
Mike Callahan
Lake Tahoe Ca