I think I know the answer here but just want to run this up the flagpole with you guys.
We’re building a walk with 4X8 Cambridge brick-like pavers. The field is a 45 degree herringbone pattern and the borders are sailors.
The walk is about 70′ long and has a slight curve in it. For about 30′ the herringbone pattern is straight but then slightly bends to one side so it’s off of straight by about 6-8″ at the end. The inherent curve in the walk layout hides this somewhat (no border installed yet) but the landscaper says that’s as straight as he can get it.
It’s really not a big deal with this curved walk (although it bothers me) but the driveway in front will be all straight edges. A curve in the field pattern there (we’re using the cambridge Cobble III pattern there -8″ octagon pieces with smaller square pieces) would look terrible against the straight 6X6 border pieces or the garage front.
Talked to the folks at Cambridge and their rep and they all say the pattern should be straight, accomplished with a string line 3″ above the sand. The rep may come out on Monday.
Here’s a photo. Best I could get with the tree shadow and shallow camera depth of field. No sailor border installed yet.
Thanks for any observations.
Runnerguy
Replies
Hit the photo button but no go. Here's another try.
It looks like you are close to the drip line, and root zone of the tree. If you push it too close it may damage the root structure. .
Thanks Jigs.
As I said above, my question really isn't about the walks curve, it's about the field pavers not being set straight. The field pavers lines bend and not even at the same bend as the walk.
But thanks.
Runnerguy
RG,
Its hard to see exactly what you are talking about with the picture from that angle. I think if you were to get up on a ladder at the end of the walk and then take a pic, we might be able to see the crooked lines in the pattern better.
I personally think that every brick (or paver) walk has its own personality, and sometimes perfectly straight looks unatural ? But bottom line is you have to like it :)Bill Koustenis
Advanced Automotive Machine
Waldorf Md
"the landscaper says that's as straight as he can get it."
That's why we DIY some projects.
He could get it straighter IF he wants. He don't want to...
Was price an issue in hiring this guy?
Thanks Pete. With any sub price is a factor. For this part of the project (I built a whole house) we talked to four landscapers and this guy was second highest although all were with a few thousand dollars of each other. The Cambridge rep seemed surprised because he said this guy normally does pretty good work.
Runnerguy
You might not want to hear this but I like to have curves in walks when I can.
From the picture it looks like a tree is off to the right. The walk curves around the tree a bit.
To me there is a relationship between the tree and the walkway. As people go up the walkway they can see that.
I just finished a walkway in my front yard and I took great pains to bend it around a couple of trees.
Hopefully the trees will grow up and create a canopy over the walkway shading it and complimenting it.
To me that is the neat thing about landscaping. You are blending manmade structures and organic structures together.
If you do it right, that is where it really can shine.
Thanks popawheelie.
The walk itself is curved precisly for the reasons you mention. The problem is the field paver lines bend. The herringbone lines are not straight. Maybe if the herringbone curve could precisely match the walk curve there would be a reason for the a curved herring bone pattern (of course a walk curve would have to be very gradual so there's minimal spaces between the field pavers) but that's not even happening here.
Runnerguy
I didn't mention it but getting it right is also high on my list.
Sometimes people use the excuse of letting nature dictate design for just bad design or sloppy execution.
They wave their hands around and shuffle their feet while they wax organic on you.
It's hard work to get it right. Both discipline up front and the discipline to carry it through to completion.
I would ask the sub how he managed to get it straight for the first section? If he can get it straight for 30', he should be able to get it straight for 70'.
If a straight line was specified, he should start lifting.
Ya got me. I think there was no string line and he just got lucky for the first 30'. Even the Cambridge DYI video mentiones either a string line are snapping a line in the sand to keep the field pavers straight.
Runnerguy
With what Im lookin at that isnt dictated by nature, it isnt wide enough, it isnt really centered in the stairs, it plain ol inst right and dosent look good. My main issue is theres not enough nature there to dictate anything root balls be damed whats a foot into some surface roots (its not like would be cutting 5' into and 4' down thats different)
If you want straight some ones got some fixing to do, I wouldnt accept it. A gentle curve would probably look good but that would obviously start in the beging and run the whole lenghth. It looks like some one got lazy and drunk after the first 30'. Based what I can see in the pictures I would be pizzed and someone would be redoing it now.
"then slightly bends to one side so it's off of straight by about 6-8" at the end."
Variation of 6-8" is a lot.
Sounds like the guy got lazy and didn't set up string lines often enough, if any at all.
It is possible to maintain straight bond lines within the field of pavers when laying on the 45, it just takes more time and more string lines.
I'm interested what the rep will say and how it all works out.
For what it's worth...........
I've noticed slight variations in the size of pavers before. The pavers are made in molds that are supposed to be thrown out once a certain amount of product has been made with them. Sometimes the paver manufacturer will try and get just a little more production out of the molds because they cost big dollars to make. But the abrasive nature of the paver material wears away at the mold. So over time the pavers shape changes a little, then a little more, and then.........You get the idea.
So then they finally break down and install the new mold. Back to the original size. But now there are pavers out there that are a little wider than they are supposed to be. Not a lot, but enough to disrupt the bond lines.......if your not watching the string lines.
Something to think about.
Keep us posted.
And send some photos of the finished product.
Aaron
Thanks Aaron. I don't think there were any string lines used and each course got out of true by about 1/16" resulting in being maybe 6" off over the last 40' or so.
On the walk it is noticable but the curve in the walk itself will mostly hide it (the photo has no border sailor pavers installed yet). The driveway however will all be straight lines and the landscaper said he probably wouldn't be able to do any better. I can live with the walk, but the driveway is another matter. To hav a full course begin at the bottom of the drive and watching it disappear into the border over 40' would look terrible
Runnerguy
runnerguy,
"the landscaper said he probably wouldn't be able to do any better"
That's not what I'd want to hear from the guy laying the pavers.
Keeping things straight is well within his control.
Tell him to break out the string line and stakes. Nobody is that good.
What's a roll of string cost, under 5$?
Good luck.
Aaron
Well, some of you asked for me to let you know how this turned out. My OP just focused on the field lines but part of the equation was the contractor got all upset Friday when I pointed out the wavy field lines, told me "You don't have clue" and said he couldn't keep me happy and might leave. He promised an email to me by Friday night.
No email from him on Friday. Sent a reminder to him on Saturday. No response. Wrote this letter and faxed it over Sunday night:
Dear M______:
I have not received your email outlining your concerns promised by Friday evening nor a response to my inquiry yesterday.
I don’t know why there’s been no communication by you, but in any event, work can not proceed without me receiving your written views on anything relating to the job, the contract, your concerns, the scope of work you plan to complete, etc. I will need a day to evaluate this. I know you have crews to schedule, which is why I was hoping for your expected email Friday night, leaving ample time to respond before the Monday workday.
I will let you know that the construction standards I am seeking to meet are not mine but those typical of brick paver walkways and driveway installation. The whole house has been built by the 40+ subcontractors according to the normally accepted construction standards for that particuliar trade. The landscaping will be no different. So, in the spirit of fairness, I contacted Cambridge and discussed the rear walk, the upcoming driveway, their Kings Court and Cobble III pavers and keeping the field paver lines straight or are wondering lines typical using those products. Again, I’m looking for typical industry standards here. Their representative will be visiting the job sometime this week. You are encouraged to attend. I’ll let you know when he’ll be here.
M____, to be honest, I’m not even sure what your grievances are or even if you intend to complete the project, a reason I regret you didn’t send your email Friday. In any event, I’ll have to see your concerns in writing before work can proceed.
I’ll look forward to receiving your written reply.
Regards,
Got a call this morning saying he overreacted, his behavior was a result of him being "embarrassed" about the wavy lines, lost a lot of sleep over the thing, would fix the wavy field lines, and wanted to come to work today. I said ok if he gave me something in writing that he would finish the job and receipts for all of the materials required (with the exception of the field lines, the work is great. So that, and the hassle of lining up another guy had me motivated to take the path of least resistance).
The upshot of the whole thing was it took 2 laborers about an hour to correct 40' of wavy field lines (yes, with a string pulled) and he's been most accommadating all day.
Thanks for all the help guys.
Runnerguy
How did he fix that much area so fast?
They set a string line, had me approve it, removed the first two herringbone rows, used half of those to reset the first row, removed the third row, reset the second row, etc. Had the level, etc.
The walk's only 3' wide including the sailor border which isn't there yet (thank God).
So efficient, it made me believe they've done it before.
The walk looks great. They're working on the front walk now and then they'll come back and install the edge support,set the border sailors, and cut any herringbone brick to the those.
Runnerguy
Cool good to hear they are trying to do right by you. Now you gotta post the pics of their good work too, for comparison purposes
Bump.......
Any photos of the finished job, or are they still laying the driveway?
Hope the job is going well.
Aaron
They're still working on it. I was planning on taking some photos today but it's sprinkling/raining in Annapolis and everything has tarps on it. We should look good on Tuesday when the work resumes.And thanks for asking.Runnerguy
Runnerguy - I think we lead the same lives.....
Told a trim carpenter to fix a f-up a few months ago. He said "if you make me fix that I'm not gonna work for you any more". I just stared at him. He fixed it. It wasn't hardly a month later before he called me back looking for work... :-) Said he didn't want to let me down after working for our company for something like 10 years. I told him he had been replaced. I actually might hire him back some day.... :-) I have some cheap houses coming up and he is a good value. :-)