Bill,
I’ve got a freezer in my garage that I don’t want to be GF protected.
BUT on the other side of the wall (outside) is a rec. I want to be protected.
Can I wire the GFCI backward ( reverse line and load connections) where the freezer will stay hot even after a GF trip on the outside Rec.
I came across a simular situation last year when troubleshooting an outage. GFCI was hot even though it was tripped…. got me thinking.
Replies
You can't wire it backwards.
And with each revision of the GFCI standards they make it harder to do.
If the GFCI is in that box and "protects" both the freezer and the outdoor receptacle, which is down stream, then you want to put a regular receptacel in that box and put the GFCI outside.
Or if you want the GFCI inside replace the box with a 2 gang and feed the freezer receptacle on the load side and then the GFCI and have it feed the outdoor receptacle.
I don't know what addition of the NEC, but I have been told, but not seen it, that the 2008 issue remove the exception for the fixed appliance. And other the older codes you would need a simplex receptacle unless you had a 2nd appliacne plugged in.
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
Understood.
I ran across this similar problem a while back, where the GFCI was still hot after it tripped.
I assumed it was wired backwards. None of the downstrean rec.'s were hot.
Whether it had true ground fault properties in that mode I couldn't tell you. Don't see why not though.
I need to change a GFCI right now-- it trips when the wind blows- so that came to mind.
I think tht the 2nd generation of GFCI's where introduced in 93. With those they needed power to reset and shipped tripped. If they where wired with power to the load side you could not reset them. But the receptacles where always not from the power on the load terminals.The 3rd gernation was introduced in July 2006. With those the receptacle terminals are also not connected to the load terminals, so even if wired backwards the receptacle is not hot as the GFCI is not shipped tripped and needs power on the line terminals to reset..
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
If they remove the exception for fixed appliances like refrigerators and freezers, won't a lot of people find a freezer full of rotten food when they open it after a vacation, or even if they just open it every few days or so? It seems like that would be an entirely unworkable requirement.
Possibly they felt that the GFCI's have gotten better and likewise the appliacnes..
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
Is the outside receptacle "downstream" from the freezer?
If yes, just install the GFCI at the outside outlet - if / when the GFCI trips, only the outside outlet will be shut-off - freezer will stay on. Unless, the breaker blows due to overload - then everything will shut off.
Don't know about wiring them backwards, Bill will be along..................
Jim
Edit: Bill types faster than me - I was typing - he was posting.
Edited 1/31/2008 11:50 am ET by JTC1
Installing the GFCI outside will accomplish my goal, but I was trying to keep the GF rec. protected from the weather.
With my nasty azz weather, I get about 2-3 yrs service out of GFCI's mounted outside. Only 18" overhang.
All the GFCI mounted inside are still original (12yrs. old.)
Is the outside one in a weather tight box with a cover? I have a couple on steel side buildings for over six years, and the building have no overhang. Weather shouldn't be an issue if they are in the correct boxes with covers.
Sort of.
It's just a Horz. 1 piece cover. Neoprene seal. Low profile.
I've seen lots higher quality. Box sealed to box & brick so that Rec. is recessed a couple of inches. But they stick out 3" proud of the the brick.
Prefer the lower profile.
Don't exactly know your situation in the garage. Drywalled? Open studs?
Can you "intercept" the cable to the outside outlet inside of the garage, install a new box with GFCI inside of the garage, and feed the outside outlet from there?
Depending on the interior finish, this project ranges from simple to "not-too-tough".
This would at least allow you to just use a regular duplex outlet outside while keeping your GFCI inside and out of the weather.
I assume you know the outside outlet is supposed to be weathertight in use - hence the bubble covers.
Jim
Never underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.
I don't want to hijack the thread, but I wonder if anyone can offer up a comparison between the frequency of "false trips" between receptacle GFCIs and GFCI breakers? It seems like the conscientious electrician might want to steer the HO one way or the other if there is a notable difference.
I hadn't heard of the new code requirement, maybe it was because of intense lobbying efforts by ice cream and beef suppliers ("Big Ice Cream")? It's bad enough to lose some popsickles... imagine if you lost a dozen steelhead, some grouse, a few ducks and an elk!
"I wonder if anyone can offer up a comparison between the frequency of "false trips" between receptacle GFCIs and GFCI breakers?"
I've had GFCI outlets on the SACs in my kitchen, a GFCI panel breaker on my bathroom circuit, and a GFCI outlet on an outdoor recept. for about 10 years. The only one that has *ever* tripped was the outdoor one. That one tripped every time you plugged/unplugged just about anything -- especially in damp weather. Got worse with time. Replaced it last year and it's been good since. Seems to be more of a location/use thing than type of breaker.
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA