Replies

1. 
   philarenewal | May 26, 2006 06:09am | #1

   Don't know about glass tile but mastic?

   Especially in a shower?

   Maybe just me but I hate mastic in general and beyond that I would never use it in a shower.

   If it works for you, more power to ya.

    

   "Let's get crack-a-lackin"  --- Adam Carolla

2. 
   JeffBuck | May 26, 2006 06:50am | #2

   mastic's gonna screw up any tile in a shower ...

   not just glass

    

   and stop bragging about doing things wrong.

   Jeff

       Buck Construction

    Artistry In Carpentry

        Pittsburgh Pa

1. 
   JHOLE | May 26, 2006 01:34pm | #4

   What does the mastic screw up?

   Alot of the time I go with thinset for horizontal and mastic for verts.

   I have not had any issues yet but I would appreciate a heads up before I do.Remodeling Contractor just on the other side of the Glass City

1. 
   tmaxxx | May 26, 2006 03:54pm | #5

   for some reason mastic takes along time to cure if it cures at all.  the product says right on it that is ok to use in showers.  i recently had to redo a huge shower where after over 1 year, the mastic still never cured.  and i know i have another client with mastic weeping out for almost 3 years now.  one day ill redo that one too.

   as for glass tile a special thinset is used because normal thinset cannot bond to the glass properly.  sure the others will hold it temporarily but its not properly bonded.Tmaxxx

   Urban Workshop Ltd

   Vancouver B.C.

   cheers.  Ill buy.

3. 
   zak | May 26, 2006 08:51am | #3

   I wouldn't use mastic anywhere in a bathroom.  I would make sure to use a latex modified thinset for glass tiles, so it has more grab to the nonporous surface.  I don't think using thinset makes a installation "finicky".

   zak

   "so it goes"

4. 
   Gene_Davis | May 26, 2006 04:52pm | #6

   Contradict manufacturer's directions?

   Mastic in a shower?

   You'll never work for me, no matter what your "no callbacks" story is.

5. 
   budgee | May 26, 2006 05:52pm | #7

   I just had another "Pro installer " ruin my bathroom , because he said " I have been installing tile for 20 years and the installation instructions are wrong, you dont need to back butter the tiles with thinset". Now you can see all the notched trowel marks and missing thinset right through the tiles.. A tottal nightmare!!!   Follow the installations guidelines fellas please.

1. 
   user-69050 | May 26, 2006 11:51pm | #8

   Here is a very simple way to look at it. The manufacture of the Thinset, mastic, grout, or any product, doesn't put all the writing on the packaging to make it look pretty. The directions are based on years and millions of dollars spent on research and development. Granted there directions are limited due to available space on the package. That's why you will also see reference to meeting or exceeding certain ANSI specs and the product is intended to be used in conjunction with TCNA guidelines. These 2 references can lead you to possibly another 10 or more pages of instructions. These guidelines are an industry consesus made up of manufacturers, technical people,etc. Just as someone said why go against the experts? That's sucide! Plain and simple.

   Glass is a very unforgiving. The thinset will shrink as a normal part of hydration (curing). If too much thinset is used it shrinks at a greater amount. Now lets look at glass. It expands and contracts at a different rate the the thinset. Glass over 4" and 6" in size are susceptable to higher stresses than smaller pieces due to the greater mass. These larger pieces have been known to crack when the thinset hydrates or shrinks. It is pulling on the glass making it try and stretch and bend. It can't do it.

   Call the glass manufacturer direct. They all have 800 numbers and are more than willing to give advice. This stands to reason as it is in their best interest to have their product installed correctly. The last thing they or anybody want is a bad install. They get blamed as does everyone else. Sorry about being long winded, this is someting that irritates me to extremes.

    

   Jim Carlin

1. 
   xhakr | May 27, 2006 05:49am | #12

   I've only done a few glass tile installations using glass tile supplied by HO/Interior Designer--with no directions included. There has been no cracking.  The tile sizes were slightly smaller than the 6" x 6" tile that I will be installing in a few weeks.  The mfr recommeds installing a crack isolation membrane behind the tile, and backbuttering the tile (no trowels on substrate allowed)--just the usual jig you would use in setting large stone tile. The mfr also goes on to say that they want 3/16" spacing and to use 1/8" tile spacers--go figure? That means that sanded grout has to be used--will it scratch the sanblasted surface? These tiles also have a paint on the back--which will mask the trowel joints--if any.  I think all the mfr is trying to do is cover their ##### when it comes to their product failing--so they don't have to incur legal expenses.  I like the idea of recycled glass products, but have to wonder about the expenses of using a crack isolation membrane (Nobel) and all the propriatary substances used to install the membrane. We are actually being counterproductive in the real recycling world!!!

   One other observation: from Jim's reply, it seems that if a glass tile installation is going to fail, it will happen almost immediately--or until the thinset, or organic mastic fully cures.  So,  if I decided to bunk all the mfrs recommendations, and install the glass tile with organic materials and unsanded grout sign waivers etc., and the the setting material fully cures with no tile cracking, I should be out of the woods?!! --except, of course the shower door guys cracking the tile with their "hot" glass  drill bits.

    

    

1. 
   user-69050 | May 27, 2006 01:17pm | #13

   I didn't mean to mislead you about the glass cracking during the curing process. This can happen over a period of time when there are a number of forces at work. The thinset pulling on the tile while the tile is now in the sun light or behind the kitchen stove. It wants to expand and there is no where to go. Maybe it holds the bond but weakens its grip just a little. Maybe there are other factors introduced into the equation. They have always been there in the back and not played a important part,or not. But now play a greater role because some other element has been weakened or placed under greater stress than before. Maybe thats why the manufacturer is calling for that size grout joints. Grout is softer than glass or tile. Please don't try and read between the lines. I'm simply suggesting that anyone who has questions re: a certain installation, Please call and ask the people who make the product since they any only they are the people who know their product inside out. I do it! When I've been hired to do a inspection on a failed installation, I get all the data I can in order to figure out what caused the failure. Since there are new arrivals on the market almost every week it is impossible to know about all of them. I can tell you this, Most of the failures and problems are installer related and 5% are either defective tile, thinset, etc. That's 95% caused by us! We either didn't read the instructions or did the exact opposite. Used a product not intended for what your application requires. I'm not saying it definitely will fail. I am saying I don't know when it will fail. It might go a week or yrs. Just remember there is a reason the manufacture is saying to do it one way. There is also a agreement or consenus of tried and proven industry standards. It doesn't make any sense to go against these standards.  A very wise person once told me it will be extremely difficult and impossible to convince the court that your method is better than the standards of the industry.

    Jim Carlin

2. 
   LEMONJELLO | May 27, 2006 12:50am | #9

   budgeeYep! Funny you should mention that. I did a redo of a tub surround where the "other tile guy" used grey thinset and notched trowel for a glass tile beauty strip. His first experience with glass tile according to the owner. That should have been a clue right there to get someone else. Neighbor came over, commented on it, owner called the GC, in turn called me. Thats how I got to see this job.The Mfg. don't write that stuff 'cause they're bored. and I have yet to ever use Mastic on anything. Judo Chop!

6. 
   EricPaulson | May 27, 2006 03:50am | #10

    I think the glass tile manufacturers are making a big fuss about these finnicky installations. 

   Think what you like. I use the topshelf thinset with the acyrlic additive as per most glass tile install instructions.

   Additive in the grout too.

   Hey, if that is too complicated, do it your way. It will keep the rest of us busy.

   Too bad your client is getting a rough deal though.

   Eric

   [email protected]

    

    

   It's Never Too Late To Become What You Might Have Been

    

    

    

7. 
   DougU | May 27, 2006 04:26am | #11

    I have been installing the glass tile with mastic

   for how long?