Don’t laugh – at least I don’t think its totally crazy.
My nephew Mark installed posts and railing to exterior steps up a retaining stone wall (native fieldstone inlaid w/ concrete). Stone is irregular, not flat top, and tough as granite! So he burned thru several bits, and could only drill about halfway into the stone for 1/4 x 2″ tapcon screws. So result is not totally perfect, tho it looks great.
The posts are slightly shaky due to drilling problems and rough stone surface…he had to shim w/metal washers to get level. So there are voids under the posts…
Mark now want to come back and try to stabilize the posts by using some sort of caulk-gun adhesive, to fill the voids under the posts, firmly binding the metal base plate to the stone.
Local store said to try 2 Ton epoxy, Mark doubts that choice. I suggested “Goop” which worked well for me gluing back together the ribs in a pool cover, which stuck great.
Can you pros suggest other options for us. BTW, this job used HD Vinyl Stair Rail Kit, which turned out pretty good Thanks for advice.! Paul
Replies
How big are the gaps? For narrow gaps (1/8" or less) with wood posts a urethane (Gorilla or PL-whatever) glue or caulk would be best. For wider you should probably go with a filled epoxy. If you're gluing metal then likely some sort of epoxy would be best.
Dan, ifrc, the voids could in places approach 3/8". BTW, the posts are vinyl 4x4, w/ aluminum insert.
So it's really an aluminum base that you're trying to glue down?
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
Dan, there's a metal plate attached to the bottom of the post, then another metal plate screwed into the stone, these were married. So, iirc, the glue is to be between the metal plate and the stone.No other suggestions?
Sounds like you are trying to work around a bad drilling job. I don't think glue will ever make up for that, especially since you're dealing with vinyl and aluminum. Nothing will stick to the vinyl and likely not the aluminum after a few freeze/thaw cycles. Why not re-drill? Did you try to do this with a hammer drill and hardware store masonry bits? If so, that's the problem. Rent an SDS drill and a good bit and re-do the holes to fit a tapcon that's a bit bigger and longer to correct what's there. You'll be surprised how easy it is with the proper tool. Besides, the rental fee will likely be cheaper than the glue it would take to do this job.
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
Mike, I hear you. We considered a hammer drill, but feared overkill would crack/break the stone which is only an inch or 2 thick.The glue idea is a "belt and suspenders" option, to try to minimize further the very slight shake, without having to go back to square one. Thanks for your input.
How about removing the stone, excavating for a small footing, embedding a bolt, attaching the post and resetting the stone, with a carefully drilled oversized hole in the stone to clear the bolt.
Even if you break the stone you could fit it to the post or get another.
Ralph, The problem is with the lowest step of 5 steps, which is kind of a monolith of field stones embedded/grouted with concrete - very heavy. So removing the one stone carrying the post not easy.
If that's what you got, I'd go for a coring to fit a section of the vertical handrail pipe.
Look in the yeller pages under "concrete boring, cutting, etc." Get a couple of prices for coring out a 12" to 15" hole into the wall. (These guys are not expensive.) Grout that in with a hydralic ceement grout and you've set the rail and strengthened the wall.
A hammer drill is ideal for this. Even better is a diamond coring bit.
If the stone is only 2", why are you playing with it? This railing HAS to be attached to a much stronger and deeper footing. Or it's gonna look like a kid did it.
How about a picture?
If possible, I'd remove the bottom plate, put down a layer of grout-like substance (exterior tile grout, thinset, filled epoxy, etc) and then reinstall the plate. If you're reluctant to remove the bottom plate, probably your best bet is injecting anchor-setting epoxy under it.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
Considering that the bit of "shake" is relatively minor (I's say 98% ok), we're going to inject the voids between the lowest plate and the fieldstone with PL urethane adhesive caulk. If it helps stabilize, fine. If not, we will live with it. As they say, we're not building a cathedral, just a thing that serves the purpose. I can understand there's a right way to do it, but for amateurs we hope this will do. Thanks all for the ideas!
One point: If the fieldstone is solid and soundly bedded in mortar (no hollow sound when tapped), it should easily stand up to use of a hammer-drill to make the holes.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
Another point: The best filler to use in this case is one that isn't resiliant. This is why I'd recommend something other than a caulk.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
I would go an entirely different direction than the other posts here... unless I missed someone else saying the same thing as I am going to.
Before I start though, I can tell you another thing about what the others have mentioned... using the right drill and bits is a big deal in a job done well. I have cheap hammer drills and then I have a Bosch SDS hammer drill. There is no comparison and the Bosch makes quick work out of any job that the other drills would struggle with. I also have a Milwaukee Demo hammer/drill that takes a spline bit that would drill through the China, I'm sure, but I haven't used it for anything other than demo/chipping so far.
Now, here is what I would do for the post. Bore a hole that is 3/4" in diameter or so... straight and plumb and at least a foot deep, leaving 8 inches or so sticking out. In that hole, set a piece of 1/2" pipe into epoxy. Then bore the wooden post that you wish to use to fit over the end to fit over the protruding pipe and regardless of gaps at the bottom, you will have a solid connection and post system for as long as you live.
You could also leave a lot longer section of pipe sticking out and build a post to go around it for a super solid result.
http://www.petedraganic.com/
Hi Pete: thanks for your take on this - it would make a lot of sense, if we were to do a good, bang up job of it, and if we were still in the planning stage, and if the posts and rails were not already in place. But at this point, though it may not be the most professional route to go, we will try to go with my prior post. Thanks for the info re drills!
Understandable. Try whatever you feel is best. If it doesn't work out, you can explore other options later.
http://www.petedraganic.com/
Pete is right, you are wasting your time talking about any glue here. You WILL be doing this all over again, so might as well do it now befoire you have a bunch of glue gumming upthe works.But is you are dead set on wasting time, the best bet is Simpson's masonry epoxy
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When you finish cobbling this together get your least favorite 200+ lb guy to trip and fall against it. If it hold up - great. If not, you can revisit these suggestions and try again.