Wondering what going rates for Lineal Foot installation of:
1) Paint-grade, 1-piece crown in an existing home where one would have to leave the mitersaw outside and walk back and forth through the house. Minor, hand cutting could be done inside. Puttied, caulked, and touched up painting (pre-painted and curling like a tater chip thanks to the proud homeowner with lots of foresite) may or may not be included.
2) Big job installing cabinets in a new school. Each room has essentially 3 basic pieces – an 8′ base cabinet (with countertop), an 8′ wall cabinet, and a 2′ “wardrobe-type cabinet that butts up against the other two. Tapcons screwed into block walls. The site is about 55 miles one-way trip.
I’m in South Georgia, my guestimates for labor are 1) $4-5/ft for the crown job, and 2) $10/ft on the cabinets (counting base and wall separate) and $10/ft for countertop (which I’ve paid a guy who works at the company I’m quoting to).
New at this estimating labor stuff, and it’s kicking my arse on a lot of things. I’d greatly appreciate any help
Thanks.
MikeVB
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I just finished a job with walk time and you should take all you can get for the crown. If it is right out the door it isn't so bad but more than 30 feet will drive you nuts. I know it did me. Around here 10 a foot for CT sound about right but 10 a foot for cabinets is low. Considering the extra time to Tapcon the cabinets not to mention the expense of the screws and the hammer drill bits I wouldn't bid 10 a foot. I live in the upper midwest and have a cousin in Chicago who does commericial trim outs including cabinets and I know he gets more than that. Well my soap box is creaking so I 've gotta get off now . Mike
Forget about trying to give a LFT price for the crown Figure out how long it will take you and multiply that by your hourly rate ( don't forget overhead and profit in that hourly rate.
I charge $50 per corner or splice, hope it helps.
Thanks for the info.
I did think it might be better to charge by the "cut" or corner/splice since that's where all the real work is involved.
Besides like in the bathrooms there's more cutting and fitting cause of the jogs around the tub/showers.
I was having a bitch of a time getting the copes to close up tight in this house in the first two rooms, then I backed off from 31.6 degrees on the CMS to 30 degrees and they fit like they were cast in place. I'm guessing that the molding isn't quite dead on 38 degrees or something. The weird thing is that the OS miter just 31" away from one of the slightly off copes was dead on 31.6/33.9.
Now, I prefer using quiet hand tools when possible, but I could only guess the old-timers would use shims in their boxes or something to work on out-of-whack joints.
The first room, living room was just inside the front door, the others are through foyer turn completely around and left in den with a 14-4 stick with delicate coped end through the hall into bedrooms and bathroom. Quite a pain doing my usually preferred cut it slightly long and take it back and shave it if necessary. Got a $150 Lie-Neilson LA block plane that will hairlip you just looking at it it's so sharp. But, haven't found it very useful on the crown cause it forces one edge or other out on the exit of the stroke.
This is a great forum.
MikeVB
Mike,
I was having a bitch of a time getting the copes to close up tight in this house in the first two rooms, then I backed off from 31.6 degrees on the CMS to 30 degrees and they fit like they were cast in place. I'm guessing that the molding isn't quite dead on 38 degrees or something. The weird thing is that the OS miter just 31" away from one of the slightly off copes was dead on 31.6/33.9.
I will go pretty far out of my way to not have to cut crown flat on the CMS. Clamps, upside down and backwards is the best way to go. Depending on the material it may have a little cup to it. Usually the edges curl in just a touch towards the finished side. This causes the crown to rock ever so slightly on the saw table. And in turn, throwing your cut off just enough to make the copes and mitres tough.
Also, lots of people don't back cut enough when they cope crown. I use a jig saw and make sure I've got 45 degrees back cut. When I nail the inside corners I brad nail the square piece. Then after I cut the cope I slide it into place. Often times a very careful tap on the square ended piece either to the top or bottom will bring the pieces together nice and tight. Then I nail everything.
Another thing I do is cut a foot long piece with copes on both ends. I use it to fit pieces in and check how things will line up.
Mike,
Couple different sources for numbers on your crown. (Assuming 3.25" here)
BNI General Construction Costbook 16 ft/hr
Tolpin's Finish Carpenter's Manual 17 ft/ hr
My own job costs for cutting outside, moving drop cloths, etc. 14 ft/hr
If lots of cutting, for instance around cabinets I am down around 10 ft/hr. or less.
My rates are for stain grade. painted could be boosted some.
On your cabinets, I don't have my own lin ft price, I bid per box and piece.
But the BNI numbers look like this.
Base cabs:
Minimum .320 hrs /lin ft
Average .400 hrs /lin ft
Maximum .533 hrs/ lin ft
Wall cabs:
Min .267 hrs/lin ft
Average .320 hr/lin ft
Max .400 hrs/lin ft
Laminate counters
Min .267 hrs/ lin ft
average .320 hrs /lin ft
Max .400 hrs/ lin ft
Depending on the cabinet layout my per piece times would land in the above numbers. ( though my counter times would be lower). Oh and the wardrobe cabs would be about 1.25 hrs ea.
Also make sure that whoever is running the job realizes that you are working by yourself, or that you need a specific time frame to work in. I mention this because some years back I had to install 6 kitchens in a high school home economics room. The school kind of figured that this whole army of people was going to show up and knock all the kitchens out real quick.
We worked it out though.
Hope this helps some more.
Bowz
Thanks for the reply. I also like to cut on the reverse, but gave up after being unable to get a good fit with several test pieces. The bottom would be tight and the top would be standing a good 1/8" off, and it wasn't the undercut cause I had back cut it SEVERELY! Tried taking off more with files, took too long. So, finally decided to try the cut it on the flat method, and it got better. But as I said before it only got tight after backing the miter off to 30 degrees.
I suppose I also could have backed off the miter from 45 slightly while cutting upside down and backwards.
Bowz, thanks for those figures. What is BNI by-the-way?
MikeVB
Mike,
What is BNI by-the-way?
BNI Publishing. (Building News)
Another contractor gave the book to me. But it doesn't have a website, or a price listed on it, and it looks to be geared mostly to commercial work.
Bowz
I can see why you're getting your butt kicked on estimating.
You should get $150 lin ft for the cabs counting separately.
I have a neighbor who gets $100 per miter on crown. I think he's a little high but not too far off. If I had to fill and paint it would be more.