One outfit is proposing a Goodman furnace to replace our 30-year-old Williamsons. It’s a high-efficiency two-stage variable speed fan unit (I forget the % efficiency).
Apparently this is essentially the same furnace as the Amana units. Can anyone tell me how they’re different (aside from a non-stainless secondary exchanger)? Can anyone tell me WHY they’re different — why the two different brands?
Anyone got anything to say about the Goodman — good or bad?
(Other units proposed are the essentially identical Amana and a similar American Standard unit. Any comments on those?)
If ignorance is bliss why aren’t more people happy?
Replies
Dan, I just talked to a guy about these same furnaces and I will tell you in no way is the Goodman the same as the amana. Amana is a top end furnace, nice and quiet.
He quoted me 3000(i think around 2400 for the actual furnace) for a 96% 115,000 btu amana. The goodman high eff same btu was about 1800-2000.
I then talked to my uncle who used to do heating and cooling, he said he get me a Ducane(duquesne, not sure how its spelled) 115,000 for about 1200 from a local supplier.
I called the Amana guy back, told him no, too expensive on the Amana, and that I ws thinking about the ducane for 1200. I asked how that compared to the goodman. He laughed and said that the ducane blows away the goodman. kinda shocked me a lil. So what does that say about the goodman if the salesman himself said he installs the ducane over the goodman when he does his side work?
Take from this what u want but I got the impression from the salesman and my uncle that the Amana is a top notch furnace and goodman is far below that.
Matt.
The thing that confuses me is that the Goodman and Amana units are identical to the naked eye, save for the nameplates. Clearly made from the same plans, if not in the same factory.
If ignorance is bliss why aren't more people
happy?
Dan, I would steer clear of the Goodman. I used to do service work for the gas utility and 80% of the work we did were on the Goodman (used to be Janitrol). I would not put one in my house, I don't think I would even put one in my rental house, if I owned one. Good luck.
I had two put in our house last year, and I have no complaints. There was an initial glitch in that a jumper was installed on the circuit board that shorted out something, but the installer got replacements in right away.
To me (and I'm not an expert - this is the first forced air system we have had) I like the design. It is open and easy to access, 5 year warrenty, and parts are easy to get.
Of course, other brands may have some better features regarding the controls and how well the blower works etc. But it lowered our gas bills. We did install the 6" pleated filters, and the powered AprilAire humidifiers which I really love.
i've used alot of goodman units... i use the 5 & 7.5 ton gaspacs all the time... never had a huge problem when i did they corrected it... last year i was pay'n about $1700 for a 5ton goodman gaspac... was a little cheaper when it wasn't 3ph... guess you get what you pay for... just in working on a goodman vs a trane you can see the difference in hardware there is a huge difference in quality... but also in price... the same size trane gaspac was $5800... vs $1700... call me tight but... when you have to write the check... hard to eat that extra $4100
pony
Dan, take a trip down to a local supply house that carries Goodman. Take a look inside one and then reach in there and tweak the heat exchanger with your hand. Goodman use to have one of the lightest gauge heat exchangers I ever saw but that may have changed in the last few years. Outside they use lighter gauge material for the cabinet and that contributes to them being noisier than higher end units.
I have never installed or service one so my real world experience is nil with them. I just couldn't get past how flimsy they were made when I look at them at my supply house.
Dave
Dan,
Here is the repair histories from Consumer Reports on the major furnace lines. This was gathered from 97 - '04 and from 36,000 furnaces.
Regards,
Dennis
Interesting chart: FWIW, many of those listed are the same furnaces with different labels.I'm curious as to why the different repair frequencies: different degrees of training from "the factory" and experience?
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Sojourners: Christians for Justice and Peace
They said that differences of a few points were not statistically significant. So that would basically put Rheem/Ruud or Trane/American standard at the same repair rate.
Regards,
Dennis
Yeah, especially given this:http://www.amana-hac.com/consumer/changeTab.act?newTab=Home&requestedSite=Goodmanhttp://www.amana-hac.com/consumer/changeTab.act?newTab=Home&requestedSite=Amana
If ignorance is bliss why aren't more people
happy?
Ah, the answer:http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/conws/3666463.htmlQuote:Houston-based Goodman is the second-largest domestic unit manufacturer of residential and light commercial heating, ventilation and air conditioning products in the United States. Branded products manufactured and marketed by Goodman include Goodman(R), Amana(R), and QuietFlex(R). The products are manufactured at plants in Texas and Tennessee and are sold through more than 700 locations across North America.Amana(R) is a trademark of Maytag Worldwide N.V. and is used under license to Goodman Company, L.P. All rights reserved.
If ignorance is bliss why aren't more people
happy?
One other thing, if you follow the links to Goodman/Amana listed in Dan's post I noticed that while the units may be built by the same company, there are models which aren't offered in the Goodman line that are in the Amana. For example, 96% furnaces and 16 seer AC units. So it stands to reason that there may be other brand differences which could result in the varying reliability ratings even from the same mfg.
I think it is telling though that of the companies making multiple brands, all of their brands are pretty close in reliability. i.e.: (Carrier, Bryant, heil), (Goodman, Amana), (Ruud/Rheem), (AS/Trane)
Edited 2/17/2006 3:32 pm ET by djj
Dan,
If installed by a competent professional, the Goodman units made today are as good as any other American made furnace. Amana is made by Goodman in the same factory, in Houston, TX. I have been there and seen them in production. The two brands are physically identical.
If there are any discrepancies in service calls, it is because the Goodman equipment is sold as a "builders model", in other words, as inexpensively as possible. Consequently, also the prefered brand of most hacks and installed poorly more often than not.
The secondary HX is stainless, as it is in all condensing furnaces, which, BTW, cariies a Lifetime Warranty on the heat exchanger, a 10 year unit replacement warranty and a 5 year parts warranty. Find a manufacturer that backs their product better.
There are only 5 major US manufacturers of residential furnaces. Carrier, Trane, Lennox, Goodman, and Nordyne (or their parent companies). All US "brands" come from one of these guys. Period.
I design HVAC systems and sell HVAC equiment and repair parts, Ialso train and certify technicians and I provide tecnical assistence to my customers. I do know a little about what I speak. I have two furnaces in my home, and one of them is a Goodman 90+, single stage natural gas furnace, converted for use with LP. The other one is the "top of the line" Heil two-stage variable speed, 94% LP furnace. One cost five times the other. They both work equally well, and equally reliable. I installed both, I maintain them, and I designed and installed the systems in which they operate. The main difference, other than they have different features by design, is that I wish I would have paid a whole lot less for the more expensive one. Another consideration is that because some many idiots abuse and damage the Goodman furnaces in transport and installation (the prime cause of parts failure), IF there is a failure, parts are readily available.
Tim, It is not rare for me to see condensate leaks and stains (i) on flues (ii) below draft inducers and (iii) below secondary heat exchangersSince I rarely see inside, I often wonder about damamge which may have occured and (ii) damage which could occur in the futureWere I to start a thread with some pics, would you be in a position to comment on those questions?
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Sojourners: Christians for Justice and Peace
"Were I to start a thread with some pics, would you be in a position to comment on those questions?"
Always willing to take look and do my best to provide useful comments.
What I see on newer units in the high efficiency types, is that the front cover is now all plastic and sealed fairly well, but a weak point nonetheless. With a clean and properly operating draft inducer, most of the leakage is into the fan when its operating. The condensate is supposed collect in the bottom of the front cover which should be drained. Dirty inducers and partiall clogged drains cause condensate to collect where it shouldn't and leak out. Telltale signs of leakage is common. The back cover, which cannot be seen with the HX assembly in the unit, is also a common place for leakage.
Leakage in flue pipes, like at the joints of galvanized pipe in non-condensing units ? If your refering to what I have seen, this is also a common occurence, more common in oversized equipment and/or during the early and late parts of the heating season, when run times are short and infrequent.
Yeah, I got the primary/secondary crossed, I think. Amana is all stainless and the Goodman (and several other brands I've noticed) have the primary made of "aluminized steel". This makes sense -- the secondary is where the condensing goes on.
If ignorance is bliss why aren't more people
happy?
FWIW there is a listing of different brands and who became what and who bought out who.http://www.johnmills.net/work/history.html
Thanks, that's a very useful list for figuring out this zoo.
If ignorance is bliss why aren't more people
happy?
Dan, Again maybe it is the installer. I have disconnected at least 20 Goodman/Janitrol furnaces with cracked heat exchangers, all between 5 and 10 years old.
This is an Amana-style unit, not Janitrol-style. From what I gather Goodman doesn't do any their own engineering, just buys companies for their designs.
If ignorance is bliss why aren't more people
happy?
"Carrier, Trane, Lennox, Goodman, and Nordyne .." Oops, forgot about York/Coleman/Luxaire.