How come I never see any trade magazines/books doing articles on proper ways to deal with excavation issues. I usually depend on my excavator to know what to do in any given situation but I’m starting to get a little uncomfortable with that especially when he’s not available and I have to use somebody I don’t know very well.
For example, I’ve been asked to put a driveway and a foundation in for a 1800 sq. ft. 1 1/2 story modular log cabin. The driveway crosses a small stream and I’m not exactly sure how to have this done properly. My normal excavator can’t get to it so I will have to use somebody I don’t know very well and I want to make sure I know what needs to be done before I cut anyone loose to do it.
I wish there were some books or something that could get me thinking in the right direction. Most of the other trades I feel like I have a pretty decent understanding of what they do, why and how but when it comes to excavations that are not just your standard type job, I feel pretty lost, I usually leave them up to my trusted excavator. As a general contractor I feel like I should understand everything thats happening on a job both to provide the best service to my customers and so I can cover my own butt if necessary.
Can anybody recommend any good resources/references on this topic.?
Replies
If you've got a good relationship with your "usual" excavator (the one who's too busy) maybe he'd be open to 'consultations' for an appropriate fee for those times when you'd like a second opinion. If you already trust the guy's judgement, it might be worth the effort. Probably be the next best thing to actually having the guy do the work.
Just a thought. Sorry I couldn't help you with some publications.
Try your local cooperative extension.
Or look for an old Navy or SEABEE manual. Look online.
If you are messing with a natural watercourse mind your manners and permits.
Good luck,
Eric
[email protected]
It's Never Too Late To Become What You Might Have Been
the company i work for ran into a similar problem a coupld months ago. the creek ran through a gully, and in order to get across it, we installed a couple sections of oblong concrete sewer pipe. (i'm sure you've seen the stuff...maybe 5-6 feet tall, 8 feet wide, weighs many many tons). once the pipes were installed in the run of the creek, we filled over them (but obviously left the ends open to the gully and creek) and then paved over that for the driveway. hope this is somewhat helpful. this particular site was slightly elevated, so we could get away with burrying the pipes (like i said, the creek was in a gully).
oblong concrete sewer pipe.not sewer pipe but storm water pipe.or storm runoff pipeI knew what you meant but in today society need to be careful of the word "sewer"
good point...as i was writing, i knew sewer wasn't the best word to describe it, but couldnt think of a better way, so settled on that
Very broad subject you're asking about. I vaguely remember a tome recommended on an excavator list. Surely you don't want to devote a large amount of time acquiring expertise?
For your immediate project, USDA has a booklet "A Landowner's Guide to Building Forest Access Roads" (NA-TP-06-98) which is surprisingly thorough. Included in Stream Crossing Methods are a good discussion of culverts, area required, and details of the road above.
Free from them, if you can wait for it. Email if you're in a hurry, I'll scan the other 5 pages.
Seems your excavator is better than the guy I hired. Left me with a major problem that none of the road builders I interviewed could decipher. As a result, after fixing it I ended up with a reputation as the "go to" guy for difficult driveways. I like consultations, as might your guy.
PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
Dog,
The available literature is meager.
But all I do all day is push dirt around, and I'll answer any questions I can. I've put roads in some tough spots (we're talking wetlands that would sink a small dozer), and they worked.
Here is the best manual I've found on dirt roads so far;
http://www.berkshireplanning.org/download/4_4_dirt_roads.pdf
As for stream crossings, culverts are an ecological problem. The stream velocity, profile, ambient light, and bottom surface are all wrong for the critters that depend upon the river. While it is an inexpensive answer to vehicle traffic, it also is as a surprisingly effective barrier to everything that would otherwise go up or down that creek channel. This leads to a lot of habitat troubles.
A box culvert or small bridge is a better solution. If you have to use CMC go with an oversized squash tube and bury it far enough that the creek bottom can re-establish itself at least to some extent inside the tube. A quarter inch to the foot fall is the maximum, an eighth to the foot is good.
Also consider that an improperly sized culvert will increase the stream velocity at the discharge, with increased erosion, scour, and the potential for an unplanned stream re-alignment.
This can bring on a bunch of problems that are expensive and difficult to correct, including species removal and lowering of the water table.
If you go with CMC also remember that you need half the diameter for coverage i.e. a 6' CMC need 3' of coverage to hit its design strength.
As for sizing CMC or any other crossing, a civil engineer can help, or you can just look up or down stream and see if any other installation looks like it is working well (no scour, increased erosion, acceleration, no evidence of creek climbing over the crossing in a heavy rain or snow melt), or you could call the local Surface Water Quality folks at your environment dep't. You probably need a USACE Joint 404 Permit for this one anyway.
I'm glad you asked. I hang around here a lot, and can't usually add much to discussions on crown molding or finishing drywall. <G>
nice post. good info.
where we are in PA, you could spend 6 months to year waiting for permits to cross a creek with a driveway.
and a few bucks on engineering and impact studies.
carpenter in transition
Thanks.I've got mixed feelings about the regulatory process. Without a doubt, the cost and the delay are onerous. I work hard to contain the frustration and disgust I feel for our ever-widening bureacracy and the petty, mean-spirited, narrow-minded, priggish martinets with the ever-widening #sses who occupy the desks there at public expense.On the other hand, I see the result of one bad installation in a creek crossing and I vapor lock. A lowered water table, the permanent disappearance of native habitat, species eradication upstream and downstream (for one small example,increased outflow velocity resulting in excessive turbidity can wipe out an aquatic insect population which can consequently remove a bird population miles downstream).All to save a few bucks or because someone did not know any better.This could turn political real quick and I don't want to hijack a good discussion. <G>
Moving the Earth, 5th Edition by Herbert L. Nichols and David A. Day
Amazon has the 5th Edition, 2005, for $106. Earlier editions available on eBay, etc.