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so- it’s rather convoluted this supply to my new shower- but she’s ready to sweat unless someone makes a strong case for hammer chambers in the lines. I am no plumber- I know pay day is Friday and sh!t flows towards Pittsburgh- my plumber always puts them in- but I have read they don’t do a thing. I’d just put them in but space is tight- means framing changes I’d rather forgo…
thanks for any input
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The plumber I used for my home (who is really good in my eyes) didn't put any in. I asked and they said the idea is nice but once you eliminate air from the lines, you shouldn't really have much of a problem...And the other thing is just to trun your faucets, etc off slowly and not like you're in a race to shut off the water.
Haven't noticed any noise, problems, hammering in my lines.
Watch, tomorrow one will burst!
Mike
*So they sit there and do nothing. Waterya out ? But.... if you get a pounding in the pipes later... how difficult is it going to be to put them in at that time ?
*hmm- luka scores big - I like mike's answer better tho-heck I am a carpenter after allthanks guys
*As a follow up, I have heard some negative things about them as any air gets trapped in them and obviously will never escape out of the faucet, shower, etc. I don't know off hand why that would be bad however???Mike
*i can think of two simple causes of hammering:loose bib washer (very common)high thermostat setting on water heater (more likely to cause air in line)if you develope a hammering in your plumbing, look in these places.brian
*Ya know its funny this thread should appear. Ive been having a lot of hammering . But, like I said in another thread, I was called home from work cuz she found a hole in the hot water line leaving the water heater. After I shut the cold water inlet and started draining the WH not to mention shut off the main and drain the water from the hose bib, to do the repair once I opened everything up when I was through all the hammering went away.
*Consider the following: You have the shower going full tilt for a teenage daughter enjoying the warmth and washing her hair. At the end of 75 ft of 3/4" supply line. She finishes up, and not being the carpenter responsible for the framing and plumbing, slams off the water as fast as her little hands will let her. All of a sudden, a column of water 75 ft long and 3/4" dia must stop - dead. There's no place to go. The inertial forces are pretty fierce. Enough times, and pipes crack if plastic; maybe supports loosen a bit. Now we have noises in the system; maybe even the evil WATER HAMMER! Put in the air chambers - they give all that water something of a cushion, since water doesn't compress, but air does.How serious is the problem? Back in the days of liquid fuel rockets, they blew the bottom out of the fuel & oxidizer lines to shut off the engine. Couldn't stop the mass fast enough any other way. Also, kept the lines from bursting on their own if you slammed a valve shut.Go ahead, be a rocket scientist!Don
*Sounds like you have a standpipe in the system. The standpipe had filled, or almost filled with water, and when you drained the system, it allowed the standpipe to drain. Now it's working again, as intended.
*Don is right about the cause and cure, BUT simple simple capped, inverted Tees are worhless.They work by trapping a small amount of air. The air is compressible so they abosrb the shock. However, in a few weeks the air is absorbed into the water and they are no long affective.To have work you need to get the sealed ones. They have either have a piston or diaphram to separate the water from the air.
*Bill: Thanks for that insight. Forgot about bladders in tanks to keep them from getting "Water logged." Remember ours getting waterlogged when I was a kid, and the pump ran forever for lack of volume in the tank.Now I have to go find them for use on PVC & CPVC pipes.Don
*The good thing about the diaphramed units is that that they can be installed some distance from the tap you're protecting. I still put the tees, with 1" ID columns, at every tap in this house and remember to drain my system twice a year to renew the air column. I seem to have to replace a washer, or clean the valve to the humidifier, or fix a toilet, or something about that frequency anyway.
*I live in the midwest. in twenty years I have never seen anyone in my area install hammer chambers in any house. Moved to Texas a few years back and everyone used them down there. I am back up north now and I can honestly say that I have never ever noticed "pipe hammer" occurring in any house I have been in. This encourages me to believe that maybe these hammer chamber thingys are kind of like those deer whistles they sell you to put on the front of your car... they sound good in theory, but really don't do anything . Now I really don't know either way. I'm just saying that I have never experienced the problem that they are supposed to correct. That said, I think if I was going to install them I would listen to the advice about the ones with the air bladder in them. Makes sense to me.
*Bill's right about the air getting dissolved into the water, but the length of time it takes can vary quite a bit. If the dry risers are long enough, it can be practical to drain the system to trap a new batch of air when the hammering comes back.Another consideration is the diameter of the pipes. In larger pipes, the water travels slower to deliver the same GPM. Momentum is mass times velocity, so there's no advantage there. But the kinetic energy of the moving water is half the mass times the square of the velocity, so bigger pipes and slower flow would mean less energy to be stopped. Slower flow also reduces the rate of erosion inside the pipes.-- J.S.
*they are in- bladder type- shower's on-thanks fellas
*Good discussion. Air chambers also help prevent pipe bursting due to freezing. Pipes burst when ice blockage grows along the length of the pipe, elevating the fluid pressure of the confined water downstream. Air chambers lose their charge in a matter of months, requiring draining the system for recharge, so the diaphragm-type shock arresters work better.
*The chambers work best in homes with, automatic washers and dishwashers. Both of these appliances have solenoid activated water shut off mechanism Some models slam the valve shut in a second, this is where you need the chambers, homes that have a well system with a bladder tank are less prone to hammering problems than homes on the city wide system. In Michigan code requires bladder chambers on every new home built.
*Good points Armin; to a lesser extent, single-lever faucets and constant-temperature shower controls can be closed very quickly and can cause hammering too.
*yes, good point on the pressure tank serving the same function, Armin. I never thought of that before as I contemplated whether to put them in or not on some laundry remodel. But since I usually didn't put them in and usually work on houses with pressure tanks, I guess I can sleep a little better now (which wasn't really a problem in the first place).Nowadays I mostly work with pex supply tubing and that's flexy enough that hammering seems like a non-issue.
*Just put a few extra inches of copper beyond the joint supplying water to whatever fixture. It would be easier to sketch a diagram, but instead of using a 90 to supply a tap, use a T and go above it a bit with a capped piece of pipe.
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so- it's rather convoluted this supply to my new shower- but she's ready to sweat unless someone makes a strong case for hammer chambers in the lines. I am no plumber- I know pay day is Friday and sh!t flows towards Pittsburgh- my plumber always puts them in- but I have read they don't do a thing. I'd just put them in but space is tight- means framing changes I'd rather forgo...
thanks for any input