HAND NAILING – Your technique & tips
Folks,
How do you nail? What with?
That discussion on carpenter’s elbow included an interesting post on nailing technique. Got me wondering if folks have some pointers on efficient hand nailing they want to share. What works for you?
As an ex-artilleryman, my approach is traditional Ft. Sill doctrine – over/short/left/right to get the range, then whack it.
From time to time I try to work on fingering out a nail from the bunch in the left hand, but my fingers are a bit stiffer nowadays. Is there a way? Draw nails one at a time or get a bunch in hand?
Today, doing forms, I found the 14 oz. Stilleto a bit light on those 16d duplex nails and reverted to the Hart Woodie. Tomorrow – the 16oz. TiTech.
The ToolBear
“Never met a man who couldn’t teach me something.” Anon.
Edited 11/14/2005 10:21 pm by toolbear
Replies
I occasionally find the 14oz a bit light for some tasks too toolbear. I don't find enough of those tasks to dissuade me from carrying it, but I do keep a sledge in the truck, just in case.
blue
Sledges are so handy. The foreman has a double jack cut short for ease of handling.My current tool tote (a Brute 20g trash can w/ lid) has a Hart Woody, a Ti Tech and a single jack.We're building cell sites and this one is all forms and excavation and vast amounts of 4" P40 conduit and such.The ToolBear
"Never met a man who couldn't teach me something." Anon.
Well, I wouldn't be doing my job if I didn't say:
Just use screws! Heck, you already know how to pull a trigger and feed a belt!
:)
Now toolbear, I think I hear a strange tearing sound in the sky... am ducking now...
Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
What, that couple dozen 155mm HE rounds you got last year didn't teach you nothing?http://www.costofwar.com/
Screw you!)
That sound - could it be like geese whiffling overhead (good sound) or a rising shriek (bad sound) or the latter followed by a CRACK-Zing (really bad sound - if you can hear that, someone is aiming at you)Or- the VC with their mortars (and they were Good!): Kachunk, kachunk, etc. Ten rounds in the air and it's Miller Time - elsewhere.The ToolBear
"Never met a man who couldn't teach me something." Anon.
Dunno that I could properly describe any specific "technique".
I find my Vaughan 20 oz. with the 16" wood handle to have perfect balance and is the right size for all but interior finish nailing. I also wear "framers" gloves regularly which helps both in gripping, lightly, and antivibration.
Only in the biz twenty years, but no problems with framers elbow to this point.....knock wood.
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
Got some framer gloves this summer and like them. Three finger tips free and protection for the rest. They are good enough that I am not aware I am wearing them.The ToolBear
"Never met a man who couldn't teach me something." Anon.
drop 5-0, fire for effect
@@ drop 5-0, fire for effectUnless you are shooting the Washboards at Sill. Then it's more like:Right 200, drop 100, cross fingers, fire for effect. Called the Bold Shift.The ToolBear
"Never met a man who couldn't teach me something." Anon.
One tidbit of technique I can offer:
If you hold the nail near the point, with your fingers against the wood, and miss, you smash them but good. If you hold the nail up near the head, the hammer tends to push your fingers out of the way instead, usually reducing the injury and pain quite a bit.
Give it a decent tap to get it started, then get your hand out of the way entirely.
Hitting the wood on either side of the nail before the final blow to the nail head helps a lot to suck up any gap between the pieces being fastened. I do that a lot, partly from lack of skill, partly from habit.
Nails tend to bend if the material being nailed is particularly hard or bouncy. In that case, it can help to hold the nail in the middle with channel locks. The nail is kind of like a column, and the channel locks give it bracing in the middle. I usually wait too long to let go, and end up nailing the channel locks to the wood.
-- J.S.
Grab a handful of nails out of your belt, box, or keg. Now hold them in one hand and shake them parallel to each other. Now hold them lightly and use your other to pull some of the nails out of your hand by the head. You should be left with nails facing in one direction in one hand and nails facing the other direction in the other hand. Put them all back in your left hand (if you're right handed) with all the heads facing towards your index finger and thumb.
Now you can finger them out one at a time and they're ready to swat.
Tap, swat, set (if necessary).
Tap, swat, set
Tap, swat, set.
They say that if you can't two-lick (no set swing) a 16D sinker then you ain't a framer. But to be honest, I usually need that last set swing to drive a full spike home with a 16oz titanium hammer. With my 25oz steel Estwing or my 32oz Vaughn it's no problem to two-lick 'em, but those suckers get heavy and painful by the end of the day. The Vaughn Ti-tech is my hammer these days.
Keep the channelocks in your plumbing tool box where they belong. Find the zen of hand nailing. It's ridiculously therapuetic. Start the nail with a good tap... watch the damm nail, not your hammer or holding hand. Now get your hand out of the way and drive her home. Don't be afraid to smash it good, worse thing that'll happen is it'll fly off and hit you in the squash.
Another thing I try to keep in mind is that I don't move anything from the elbow up for the most part. It's all in the wrist and elbow. You start trying to throw your shoulder into it and you will mess up your swing and start hitting your fingers. Use that slow hard tap that you use to start the nail as 'aim' then the less body parts you move as you prepare to drive it home, the less you'll mess up your mechanics. That first swing establishes the body movement... now you just need to repeat it harder and faster for the finishing swing. So don't change the mechanics by moving your body all around.
It's good clean fun.
"Don't be afraid to smash it good, worse thing that'll happen is it'll fly off and hit you in the squash."
I will respectfully disagree. I know of at least one situation where a guy was nailing forms that way, had one of those nails with "winged" tip (so he said), and when the wham came, it was into his eye. He lost the eye. (We represented the manufacturer.)
Wear glasses. (Diesel, I know you do.)
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals
"Don't be afraid to smash it good, worse thing that'll happen is it'll fly off and hit you in the squash."
I will respectfully disagree. I know of at least one situation where a guy was nailing forms that way, had one of those nails with "winged" tip (so he said), and when the wham came, it was into his eye. He lost the eye.
C'mon Don.... you could get hit by a bus too. A guy was nailing forms "that way"? What does "that way" mean? Actually hitting the nail like you mean it? What's he supposed to do, whisper in it's ear real nice and maybe it'll drive itself into the wood?
We can split hairs all day long and talk about hypothetical situations that "might" happen but it seems kinda silly to me. If I forgot to tell him to wear glasses and pull his hand out of the way then I apologize.... I guess I thought most of us had enough sense to know better.
Don't go proving me wrong.
Edited 11/15/2005 11:18 pm ET by dieselpig
Diesel - The only part I was disagreeing with was where the flying POS might land. As far as eye protection, I myself work without glasses too often and judging from people that I see, others don't wear them either. A reminder never hurts. It isn't a theoretical accident when it happens.
As far as how to put it in, no argument at all. Aim good and Drive it hard!
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals
Hey Don, I owe you an apology. My reply to you was waaay harsher than necessary. I threw my back out on Monday doing something stupid and I've been kinda cranky. That's my problem.... didn't mean to make it yours.
Sorry for being a dick. No hard feelings, I hope?
Diesel -
No hard feelings.
Don K.
I read somewhere that the ideal length of handle for any individual is the length between the wrist bone and one's elbow. Ergonomically speaking.
Diesel -Love that trick. Mr. Brun, the Norwegian Carpenter, showed me that one in the 90s when I worked for him.It's the "now finger them out" bit that confounds me. The fingers are not as supple as Once Upon a Time.Since I wear an Oxy harness with two pot magnets on the straps for holding small parts, I'm playing with hanging a batch of nails, all points just so, from the magnet for a quick grab.FWIW - the magnets have proved very handy. I switch the harness between rough, finish and electrical belts and it's nice to have a place to put those little fasteners and tool bits and such.The ToolBear
"Never met a man who couldn't teach me something." Anon.
Diesel, I agree that most of the motion should be from the wrist. Earlier someone mentioned that the shoulder should do the work and I just let it slide. I also disagree that a shorter handle (14") is better. I used a 20oz, 16" rocket for 20 years without any problems and I don't know if I ever met anyone that could outnail me over the span of an entire day. I never really raced anyone, but I never noticed that I was lagging when the guys with the 28" clubs came around.
I used to demonstrate for the rookies how to sink a spike in two whacks using only my index finger and thumb. Typically, they were using their arm and sholders and I'd show them how to "whip" the hammer using very little effort and very little arm movement. Basically, the more you grip the hammer, the less whip you achieve.
I don't know how my technique would work with a heavier hammer. It might be problematic.
Handnailing is all about tempo. You have to pick your poison. If you want to use a two stroke technique, you have to have a longer, slower stroke. If you use the three stroke technique, you shorten the strokes and have a much faster tempo. I primarily used the three strokes system for most framing but occasionally, due to lumber conditions, switched to the two lick method.
Fingering the nails becomes second nature if you just keep the hammer moving. There are two kinds of fingerers: the random guys and the guys that organize their nails like you mentioned. I never had time to organize mine. I just grab a load and go. Somehow, I manage to flip the nail to it's correct orientation without thinking. It's called unconscious competence. It's the same thing that you do when riding a bike: you just do it without thinking. The imporant thing to learn when hand nailing is to keep the tempo of the hammer consistent, especially when fingering the nails. If the nail isn't ready for tapping in, just tap the wood next to it while your getting the nail lined up. If a rookie can get into that habit (maintaining temp), then he'll soon become a proficient nailer.
Unfortunatly, the days of rookies learning how to handle a hammer are over. I didn't let Ben use a nail gun till he learned how to hand nail a wall, but I think labor is too expensive anymore.
blue
Ok,
you guys have me talked into billing for the AJC titanium roofing hatchet on my next roof.
I used to use a sub crew that handnailed everything----even the felt. blue is dead on about the rythym. ( at least when shingling)
tap, TAP, tap tap, tap, TAP, tap tap
set the nail with the first little "tap"
drive it home with the TAP
the next 2 taptap---you are positioning the next nail
It's virtually all from the wrist and elbow---and I got to admidt--- I have never been able to do more than a square---or a square and 1/3 an hour consistently with this.
could NEVER do it all day if swinging from the shoulder ----there isn't room enough anyway---you would hit yourself in the face with the hatchet.
Stephen
I am gonna take care to reply to myself----so that I don't insult anyone directly . LOL
some of you guys WITHOUT a bit of elbow pain-----
be sure you don't delude yourself into believing that your current absence of elbow pain is due to a superiority of method.
when the pain comes---it can come suddenly.
I can show you the exact house mine started on----in fact I can show you the EXACT part of the roof mine started on----almost to the very shingle-----and I wasn't hand nailing at the time.
I had bought a new roofing coil nailer---a paslode---which was a bit smaller, better balanced and more nimble than the old Bostiches I was used to. since the new gun was lighter--- I was able to use it in a wider range of positions---firing with the arm extended WAY over to the side etc.---to save scaffold moves.
gun nailing can cause elbow problems also!----maybe a framing gun---(being considerably heavier than a roofing gun)--- FORCES you to use better posture.
Stephen
I like an 18" hammer handle cuz I don't have to bend over as far and pinch my gut in my tool belt buckle. :)
Well stated advice. You've probably driven more hand nails than I have gun nails, so I bow to your experience. You and Stephen make good points about tempo... especially when nailing super repetitive things like sheathing.
The only place I can really afford to let new guys get a good feel for their hammer is with hangers and hardware. I wish things were different, but as you know, time is money. Even with the hangers I usually only do it when I don't have a whole lot else for them and can afford the time. I'll let them struggle and smash their fingers for an hour or so until I need them again and then I'll pull out the gun that nails all the hardware. They look at me like I'm an A-hole. They might be right.
As you know.... I'm a youngin myself for the most part at 32 years. But I did learn to swing a hammer from day one. The first crew I worked on was about 8 men and we had two guns. The boss used one and the next guy down in the pecking order had the other.... made the two most productive guys even more productive. I still don't understand it, but I know I'm glad I had that time alone with my hammer.
Sometimes I'll climb up the wall to start rolling joists or setting rafters and someone will try to hand me a gun like I forgot it or something. It's kinda sad when one of my guys is surprised that I can keep up just fine handnailing with them. I guess this is what they call "progress"? For things like sheathing I think the guns are a no brainer, but for rolling joists, setting rafters, even walls sometimes.... I'd much rather have my hands free to move around and not be worrying about where my hose is.
I like being a "cordless framer" sometimes.
dieselpig----
I worked on a framing crew one winter---at about the age you are now.
The boss would NEVER let us gun nail rafters to the top plates------and he required us to hand nail walls to the deck---insisting it snugged the bottom plate down tighter to the deck.
I assumed that when the top floors and the roof were on---the additional weight would flatten everything out
but a couple days later at lunch he pointed out a neighboring house going up ( much faster than OURS btw)----and sure enough---there was the glint of sunlight coming UNDER the bottom of the wall plate.
Stephen
"I agree that most of the motion should be from the wrist. Earlier someone mentioned that the shoulder should do the work and I just let it slide."
I see my previous post (http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=65739.27) has created some questions. To clarify, my point was'nt to work the shoulder, but that it should be the main muscle used in a swing. It should also be noted that my point was made in regard to framing as painlessly as possible. But don't take my word for it.
Consider the advise of master carpenter Norm Abram:
"I don't remember the actual lesson, but someone, probably my father, taught me at an early age that the proper way to swing a hammer is with the whole arm; not from the wrist, if you follow this principle, I think it will save stress on your wrist and forearm, too."
"People who don't practice regularly are understandably cautious: they grip up on the handle, use their wrist rather than there whole arm, and shorten their stroke, gaining more control but forfeiting power."
-Measure Twice, Cut Once: Lessons from a Master Carpenter p. 152, 155
Now consider the advise of the original and widely hated author of "This Old House" Bob Vila:
"Let the weight of the hammer do the work for you. Most of your work is actually done at the beginning of the stroke. Don't muscle the hammer all the way to the nail, merely guide it to the nailhead, letting momentum and gravity help you. Control the hammer, but not in a rigid grip."
-Bob Vila's Toolbox: The Ultimate Illustrated guide to Portable Hand and Power Tools p. 132.
True, not every master carpenter will agree with me 100%, but even Fine Home Building's own Larry Haun will agree the shoulder should be included:
"Driving nails with a hammer has more to do with rhythm and coordination than it does with power and force. A long swing using shoulder, elbow, and forearm movement, with a decisive snap of the wrist at the end, is important for driving long nails."
-Carpentry: Homebuilding Basics (The Taunton Press) p. 10
Finally, in supporting my technique of not jerking the wrist, is John Leekse's revision of one of the oldest carpentry handbooks in circulation:
"Keep the hand and wrist level with the nailhead so that the hammer will hit the nail squarely on the head instead of at an angle. Failure to do this is the reason for difficulty so often experienced in driving nails straight."
-Carpenters and Builders Library Vol. 1 Sixth Edition p. 140
It was my intention to recommended 14" as a good all around handle, my favored Stiletto has a 16" handle. When I handnail exclusively, I prefer a 23 oz, milled face, 17" handle. I suppose if I handnailed all the time, I would invest in a titanium framing hammer.
I remember back in my apprenticeship days, my crew decided to have a handnailing contest. First I started the nail. Then, using my shoulder and my 23 oz wood handled hammer, I drove the nail below the surface in one swing. My boss never forgave me.
Not everyone swings the same way, but I can tell you I've never suffered from framer's elbow.
Here's a link for additional information on proper hammering technique.
Edited 11/16/2005 7:42 pm ET by JourneymanCarpenterT
Edited 11/16/2005 7:44 pm ET by JourneymanCarpenterT
Edited 11/18/2005 6:28 pm ET by JourneymanCarpenterT
Another important tip for a newbie, be sure your hammer is facing the right way or you might end up with a really sore thumb, or whatever. Also for what it's woth I've notice alot of guys try to sink it in two long before they are ready, the nails usually look like shat bent over sticking out of an absolutely mangled peice of wood. I make most of my guys use nailguns for that reason.
JT, If you think you were going to impress me with advice from that crew, think again!
I've never seen Norm frame anything in a manner that I would frame. Yes, he can out furniture build me, but he wouldn't last ten minutes on my rough frame job. Vila couldn't frame a dog house. I wouldn't even let him stand in the street and watch me. Haun uses a wormdrive. Need I say more?
There isn't any such thing as a good all around hammer at 14". That's a poor choice for a framer any way you add it up. It's too short and you lose your leverage. To make up for lack of leverage, you have to add muscle. Adding muscle leads to early fatigue.
If you are four foot six, a 14'' hammer is perfect.
blue
If you are four foot six, a 14'' hammer is perfect.
LOL! That....or you`ve got T-Rex arms.
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
"Haun uses a wormdrive. Need I say more?"
I wish Mizshredder could read this. lolhttp://www.costofwar.com/
wish Mizshredder could read this. lol
Is she a big fan of Haun or a big fan of worms?
blue
Worms.
Apparently the Miz thinks real men don't use winders.http://www.costofwar.com/
My most effective technique is double nailing when installing blocking. It effectively shoots the nail in the exact direction of my hand, usually near the thumb/index finger region--hopefully missing bone.
Coworkers often use the finger-too-close-to-15g-finish-nailer trick. That's probably more appropriately called "finger tip nailing."
One year a guy installing sheeting on the roof stapled his finger down. It's probably no surprise that after that his nic name was changed to Fingers. :-)
Another good one is rock your hand to the wall with that extra fast screwgun technique. Now the tip is this: to remove hand, put screwgun in reverse and back the screw out.
It's a bear to carry in your pouch but, get a frying pan, they got a bigger head on 'em...
Mr. T. MOTOL
"They keep talking about drafting a constitution for Iraq. Why don't we just give them ours? It was written by a lot of really smart guys, it's worked for over 200 years, and we're not using it anymore."
-- George Carlin
"I think natural selection must have greatly rewarded the ability to reassure oneself in a crisis with complete bull$hit."
I'm Swiss!
>How do you nail? What with?<
I generally use a hammer. Once in a while my old Crescent wrench will do.
I don't hand nail anymore. It hurts to much. Now I use a Hammer.
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People are entitled to their own opinions; People are not entitled to their own truth.
Jacob