I really suck at doing a quick sketch of something that actually makes any sense.
I was challenged to do a drawing of a post on sub floor, on squash blocks and floor joists on cbu wall and pier in addittion to showing an existing beam holding up the floor above as well as the joists above it.
Issue is that the posts we put in on the first floor (removed a bearing wall and inserted girder) don’t fall over the beam in the basement (as all the geniouses thought it would.I discovered the issue after being on site 5 minutes)…..so it needs to be redrawn and submitted. My assignment was to bring in a drawing so our draftsman could do a drawing.
I did a cut away plain view showing the alignment of all the members. I think he looked at it for one second………lots going on in one picture. I was supposed to meet him and hold his hand through it. I think if he had spent five minutes thinking about it he might have gotten it.
But, I digress.
Throw some suggestions at me to help me learn how to do this type of thing better.
I took mechanical drawing in high school for a year or so. I can do drawings ok maybe on a board but they take for ever. I think I lack the ability to tranfer what I am looking at to paper. The perspective thing gets me all screwy if it is something not simple.
HELP!
Edited 1/29/2008 6:25 pm ET by EricPaulson
Replies
Here is a scan of a box bay we will install with a hip roof over.
Just so you have an idea where I'm at.
This is almost embarassing.
View Image
[email protected]
Edited 1/29/2008 6:27 pm ET by EricPaulson
You say you do better at a board/table. Is this because you can put that point way over there-> to run your lines to-which is what perspective drawing is all about?
Well, you can do the same using a small pad, just pick that point off over there in nowhere, but keep it's location the same in regards to your pad.
The pic you posted shows the roof that the dormer will go on. The plane of the roof is pointing out over to your left, while the dormer front is pointing straight at you. Both planes should be the same, the stuff "back" of it is what runs to the 'point' off the pad.
In the case of your sketch, I imagine that point being up above, slightly to the right of center and way back of your pad. Seems you're drawing from a ladder out in the front yard, just a bit below the gutter.
Could be you are spatially challenged. And there's nothing wrong with that. Unless you build like that-which we know ain't the case.A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
Uhg..........the lines, one vertical and the angled one off the top way to the left and seperate from the window are the edge of the paper the scanner picked up.
This is a drawing of an Anderson box bay in a wall with a small hip roof over. Sidewall has vertical channel cedar siding.
I must REALLY suck![email protected]
I didnt think the sketch was all that bad, i understood it . The only thing that made me look twice was the line representing the top of the window on the inside, which wouldnt belong in a perspective drawing. Remember, in perspective you only show lines that you could see if looking at it in real life.
No man, I'm the one that was mistaken-one eye on the news, one on the screen and the lovely joyce conversing with me about..............
see-who sucks now?
Alright, if that's the box bay. Is it as narrow as it appears in the sketch? If not, then all you need to do is get the "size'' relationship between the face and the projection right.
And if it is narrow, then what's wrong with the drawing?
You want to see bogus, look over here to my left. A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
Eric, After reading your description of what your drawing is supposed to be of I can see some of the problems. Any lines representing things under the roof need to be either eliminated or represented using dashed lines. Plus, a little bit of labeling of the parts ( main wall of house, hip roof, bay walls) would have made your picture clear. I understood your drawing immediately when I read your description so it can't be all that bad.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
I tend to sketch in isometric. That way, anything orthogonal (x,y,z) is true length (whatever the drawing scale is, that length on the drawing is correct). Angles are constructed by laying out their rise and run, and length is calculated from geometry. I love mechanical drawing - wish I took the time to get better.
View Image
Forrest
Edited 1/29/2008 6:46 pm ET by McDesign
McDesign . I think your sample drawing in isometric IS good and shows all details clearly to someone who is trained, however IMO many people cannot visualize an isometric drawing.
Drawing in perspective is meant to help people visualize better, but at the expense of accurate info such as dimensions.
The trick to drawing in perspective is to use "vanishing points" These are imaginary points usually far to the right and left of the picture being drawn . All lines that would be horizontal in real life, would be angled on the actual drawing so that they would be in line with the appropriate vanishing point. All lines that would be vertical in real life would still be vertical when drawn in perspective. Imagine looking straight at the corner of a building (so that you are seeing 2 walls ,each angled a different way), The horizontal lines on the wall to your right eventually culminate in a "vanishing point" on the horizon. The same with the wall on your left, but to a vanishing point on your left.
I like to provide both when I can.
Please dont take me wrong, I'm no draftsman ! The 3rd paragraph was intended for the origonal poster
Edited 1/29/2008 7:29 pm ET by LIVEONSAWDUST
Graph paper
There is such a thing as isometric graph paper. A college bookstore might stock it.
If your view never changes you're following the wrong leader
I think I found some here:
http://incompetech.com/graphpaper/
Didn't know there was such a thing.
Interesting I did not know that. I always use graph paper to sketch drawings or ideas. Some times I assign a number value to the squares like maybe 1/2" = 1' doing this also helps with a material take off. When I worked as a lay out carpenter doing quality control the super wanted 3d sketch for as builts so he could determine what needed to be done to bring the building back on line. I also used graph paper for this purpose it made my drawings look professional and I can't draw to save my life.
The isometric paper is used in some electrical calculations, since it lets you represent 3 dimensions fairly well. That's where I first saw it.
If your view never changes you're following the wrong leader
EricP, it is not probably likely that anyone can teach you on a thread like this. Someone might have a book to recommend. As for me, I would say start simply and practice practice practice. Start by drawing a cube in perspective. The make it longer than it is wide. Start thinking about it as a floor joist and make the drawing a lot longer as a result. Then add a second joist next to the first to represent a double joist. Then say you want a post on top of the joist, you just draw another cube. It just takes practice. Just dodle when ever you get a moment. ANd then study study other drawings whenever you fine interesting examples. Then maybe try copying those drawings.
DoRight has good advise, dig up a copy of a plan with a generic wall section, then just modify it to get what you need. I have to do this on my drawings anyway sometimes to see how things are commonly illustrated.
In doing field sketches I alway remember that up ( vertical) is straight up.
Horizontal is always straight over.
And depth is at an angle.
I am sure that I will get inundated with people telling me that this is not a "true perspective".
I know that.
I can hand draw true perspectives.
I am just trying to answer your original question as you stated it.
In field drawings alway remember up is straight up, and over is straight over.
Remodeling Contractor just on the other side of the Glass City
Don't feel bad. You would think that with all the years of carpentry & artisan things I do I would be able to hand sketch the simplest of things. I just cant.
Eric,
The short answer is that good sketching is not easy. It often takes training, and/or large amounts of natural talent. As someone here already mentioned, you're not going get a quick answer here that will turn you into great sketch artist in ten minutes or less. ;)
Depending on your objectives, you might want to consider taking a community college course or something like that. But since you've already taken some drafting courses at some point in the past, it wouldn't hurt to just dust off your old books and old work. Just revisiting the old work will probably help a lot.
But remember - it IS hard to do! If you set realistic expectations you'll be less likely to be discouraged.
Unless you're really into doing a perspective drawing, why not whip up some plan and elevation sketches, add in the relevant dimensions and hand them to your draftsman. Any semi-competent draftsman should be able to crank out isometric drawings very quickly if they have dimensioned plan and elevation views.
P.S. I suspect that you really want isometric drawings. Perspectives aren't really used much for job drawings.
Eric, I think your bay window was fine, but if you want a tip--can you draw a simple cube?
Start with a light outline of a cube, then "cut away" parts of the cube until you have the part sketched.
Then go over the lines you want again, leaving the lighter background lines.
That helps non-spacial types "see" in 3D.
Your drawing is better than most guys can do, though.
Another trick: you must have a digital camera? Take a picture, print it out, then trace over it with what you intend to build.
Taking a dig. picture is a good idea. There's some simple photo programs that have a sketch feature that would eliminate most of the detail and leave the outline. I think that would be a good way to gain a feel for natural perspective.A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
Perspective is a difficult thing to describe to a draftsperson that is drawing from your drawing. In surveying, we were required to provide side, top, and end sketches of structures where needed. You can provide all those in an perspective sketch, but your draftsperson may not see it as you do.
Make the sketch in all three views with dimensions as needed. The scaling and final dimensions would be their job. Try to see it as they would with no other info than what you provide, and use that as a guide.
You could also provide a written description with "leaders" pointing to areas that may be in question.
If you have some graph paper, I've developed a little Excel spreadsheeet which converts 3 D point to X, Y points that you can graph.
But you would need to supply a view point and X, Y, Z co-ordinates for all the elements. There are actually two methods: One uses Pythagorus and the other uses one of those trig. functions.
~Peter
Take the Sulfer out of "cosine" and replace it with Calcium.
Most EXCELLENT book is "Drawing on the right side of the brain" by Betty Edwards. Library should have one..
See some things are left brain activity and some are right side activity..get the wrong side cooking and you can't make out the scribbles..getthe brain and hands /eyes working, and you can handle a lot of other tasks better too.
I used to really suck at sculpting, after "training" my brain, I am fairly OK at it now..just takes a new look at what you are trying to do.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
I agree w/ McDesign.
Isometric projection is the way to go. Easy to draw, dimensions and scale remains true.
If a draftsman cannot understand an isometric (30/30) sketch, or an "Oblique" ( 0/45)(as suggested by Jhole) then he should be doing something else......like taking a remidial drafting course.
Perspectives are used primarily for presentation purposes. They are very helpful when trying to convey spaces to "persons not trained in architectural drafting", but are labor intensive, and require quite a bit of skill, and a practiced eye to pick the right vanishing points.
As such, they should not be necessary for giving info to a draftsman.