Replies

1. 
   jonblakemore | Jul 10, 2004 12:21am | #1

   You have the right idea.

   Many notch 1.5"x1.5" from the end of the joists which fits over a 2x2 nailed to the ledger, but I feel this is inadaquate. I prefer to use a ledger that is at leas one dimension larger and use a 2x4 fastened with lag screws.

    

   Jon Blakemore

1. 
   NickNukeEm | Jul 10, 2004 02:13am | #2

   The notches tend to fail at the 90* intersection, as that is the highest stress point.  If you must notch, use a radius, and/or taper the cross-grain cut.  Personally, it makes better sense to use your method, if hangers are not desired.

   I never met a tool I didn't like!

2. 
   toledo | Jul 10, 2004 02:51am | #3

   Thanks for the response.  The method we were using today was a full span block between each joist - side  nailed and toenailed - comments? I was concerned about the shrinkage issue as this stuff is fresh off the truck, but I'm concerned about alot of things...

1. 
   Sphere | Jul 10, 2004 03:43am | #4

   still need a ledger or hanger around here..can't rely on nails alone.

   In an extreme case I had 3x10 whitepine exposed secondfloor joists..and a stair well to boot..I used a taperd sliding dovetail on the joists..Inspecter about shid, he said I need hangers ( he was looking from below, no visible joint) I took him up stairs and showed him the dovetails..told him barns have built with that detail and last hundreds of yrs..and I WONT have hangers in the lady's living room..

   he signed off on ALL the framing..and asked for handful of biz cards!..got plenty of work from his referrals

   very easy to cut, a circ saw, router ( not absolutly needed , but helps) a few sharp chisels, and a wood mallet. I precut everything on the ground..took it up on the first floor walls and assembled the whole floor..then we slid it into final position, andblind nailed the rims..easy as pie. 

   Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks

   Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations. 

1. 
   dieselpig | Jul 10, 2004 03:58am | #5

   That sounds like a killer detail.  A real sock-knocker-offer.  I'll file that one away for the next time I need a trump card.

2. 
   mdresimprov | Jul 10, 2004 03:58am | #6

   Sphere,

   I'm intrigued by the dovetail detail but I'm having a hard time conceptualizing it. Since I do alot of stairways and decks, do you have any photos? Thanks.

   MES

1. 
   Sphere | Jul 10, 2004 04:17am | #7

   I did till my portfolio got swiped from our car..

   but, picture this..joist layout on say 16'' center..I used something else..like 22 or so, to have EVEN spaces in the room..

   layout a vee shape on the centers line of the rim..this was an addition..a dovetail slope of almost full width of the joist at the top, to mebbe a 1/3 at the bottom..do not go all the way down to the bottom of the rim, the tail is housed. recess stops an inch up, the tail bottom is cut off like a shoulder cut on a tenon.

   the sides of the tail are angled..like 14 degrees ( a commom router bit for DT's) and with that and the taper , it goes home and stops TITE..

   sadly, after the floor goes on..no one knows all the work ya did..LOL.

   just picture a taperd tongue that happens to be dovetailed..like a wedge glued on the end grain of a joist,with beveled edges, and a mating slot,on my 3x10's I think I made the tails about an inch long..it was 12 yrs or more ago..  

   Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks

   Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations. 

2. 
   RW | Jul 10, 2004 04:45am | #9

   That's a slick method. There's a place - SoDak or Iowa, that'll do a deck framing package for you doing just that. You give them a plan, they machine everything. All the parts come looking like a pressure treated glulam. Obviously, you're paying more in materials, but cost comparison wise, what you gain in labor more than offsets the difference. So now you've got attractive and strong along with putting you ahead of the crowd, you don't need to worry about $500 of stainless on a deck, and it's a money maker. Perfect for 2nd floor decks where the labor is more tedious and the view from below is exposed. If the concrete is in and accurate, a couple of guys can snap together a 10x20 in a morning and be decking it after lunch."If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man." - Mark Twain

3. 
   DougU | Jul 10, 2004 05:34am | #10

   I like that detail and I may just steal it! Matter of fact, I'm sure I'm going to steal it.

   Thanks

4. 
   mdresimprov | Jul 10, 2004 07:00am | #11

   Thanks.

2. 
   Jemcon | Jul 10, 2004 04:34am | #8

   Put a double 2x beam 2 feet out from the house on posts and just toe-nail the joists to the ledger to keep the from tipping. There is almost no weight on the ledger at all.