Replies

1. 
   UncleDunc | May 31, 2002 02:46am | #1

   Why do you want to avoid cutting the joists? I can think of several ways to do this, but all of them would require a lot more time/money than supporting the ceiling on both sides, cutting the joists, setting the bottom of the beam flush with the bottom of the joists and installing joist hangers.

   If the ceiling finish is irreplacable or irrepairable, you could make U-shaped plywood gussets that would go over the beam and nail/screw/glue/bolt to the sides of the joists. Put a block between the gussets on top of the beam to prevent buckling. Or two heavy steel straps over the beam, twisted 90 degrees at the joint, one on each side of the joists, bolted through. (If you think 1/8 x 1 inch steel might be too light for this, you're probably paranoid enough to engineer it yourself. If you think holy iron would be adequate, please consult an engineer.)

   If you're willing to disrupt the ceiling finish, you might be able to find hangers that are long enough to nail into the sides of the beam. Simpson (and presumably the other makers of framing anchors) has a bewildering array of stock connectors. If you can't find long enough hangers, they might have something else that would work. I don't remember seeing anything like that on their web site, but that doesn't mean it wasn't there. Or you could take steel strap as above, wrap it over the beam, twist it 90 degrees at the joint, and wrap it under the joists.

   Of course the more strenuous and complicated the work you're doing in the attic, the more likely you are to put a foot, or a body, through the ceiling and have to refinish it anyway. :)

1. 
   mdantique | May 31, 2002 05:05am | #2

   hey thanks for the reply

   just found out today that the local building inspector came by a second story addition we will be doing next week.

   the homeowner wants no disruption of his ground floor

   we were going to tie the existing ceiling rafters to the beam with hurricane ties, but the inspector will only allow a joist hanger, unless we can show him an engineered drawing or speciality hanger for this application.

   thus the problem, the second story was to take four days, framing only now we have to deal with this, not what we wanted. Grant it the cutting of cjs is not a big deal to me, the homeowner is somewhat anxious about it though.

   I already ran through the possibilites like you mentioned. I have a call into Simpson and an email as well hoping for a solution by Sat.

1. 
   UncleDunc | May 31, 2002 06:19am | #4

   Is there any chance of getting the inspector or his boss to accept a test in place of an engineered solution? It shouldn't take too much time or effort to set up a demonstration, especially if you pick one of the all wood ideas.

   Of course it doesn't take much delay before it would end up being cheaper to pay an engineer.

2. 
   BossHog | May 31, 2002 02:21pm | #5

   Hurricane ties won't hold a heck of a lot of weight. Your inspector is probably right in not allowing that.

   Might look at a Simpson THA series hanger:

   http://strongtie.com/products/Connectors_List/THA.html

   You might find a local trus company who stocks something like these. If not, any lumberyard should be able to order them.

   Fight crime, shoot back.

1. 
   mdantique | May 31, 2002 11:35pm | #6

   Thanks Boss Hog for the reply,

   We actually had some success today, our architects engineer came through for us and has okayed twist straps fastened to the ceiling joists and then the parralam as long as the ceiling joists are blocked - to stop twisting - which is great for us. The hurricane tie would have sufficed I understand with a good toe nailing into the beam as well, but the inspector would not have gone for it, liabilities of using something other than its intended use I hear. thanks guys

1. 
   AndyW22 | Jun 01, 2002 06:28am | #7

   Mdantique:

   I have used that exact framing anchor in the same way you are and it worked beautifully. Instead of supporting the joists form below, we put the beam in the attic and hung existing joists from it. No joist cutting (to loosen plaster/drywall) no re-routing of mechanicals, no problems!

   Best of luck

   Andy

2. 
   mdantique | Jun 01, 2002 04:29pm | #8

   thanks for the reply,

   Sure seems logical does'nt it.  Simpson should come out with an "engineered" hanger for this application eh?

   Well I will let you know how it goes, starting Mon. weather permitting.

   thanks again guys

3. 
   mdantique | Jun 11, 2002 02:12am | #9

   Well the beam is in, 16" parralam, and the ties are in, one per ceiling joist on either side of the beam (and and old bearing wall below). The engineer also stipulated a 2X4 running along side the beam toenailed to the ceiling joists and the beam. We had to kerf the 2X4 where it met the twist straps so it could be snugged up against the beam. It is solid as a church and absolutely no side to side movement or rocking. Worked great. So now the second story can go ahead. It did take two days and three guys to get the beam into the attic, posted down and set, but the homeowner is glad its there, now he has carte blance on the main floor below for any future removal of bearing walls. Cool eh?

2. 
   mdantique | May 31, 2002 05:07am | #3

   oh ya, the attic is already been plywooded (laid, not nailed)to avoid any loose feet from falling through