Hello, Everyone
I am 38 year old and have been working as a carpenter since I was 14 years old. I have never worried much about learning the business side of the trades. So I went to college and got my degree in construction management. Over the years I have tried to learn my trade and be the best at it. In august I was laid off from the remodeling company I worked for. I desided to start my own carpentry and construction company. If there is anyone out there that can give me some good advise on running a construction company or ways to generate some work it would be greatly appreciated. I am having a supper hard time getting some jobs. I have talked to builders, called in contacts that I now in the trades. You would think that living in Atlanta, GA the work would not be that hard to get. Thanks for your comments.
Replies
I'm not in the trades but know a little bit about sales and marketing. You can certainly try guerilla marketing tactics (and there's a good book by that very title) but if your contacts are getting you nowhere then I think you need to think about three things:
1) are you good at sales/persuasion? It's one thing to call up your ol' bud "Joe" and ask for work, it's another to convince him why you're the best man for the job.
2) are you talking to the right people? Are your previous conctacts the ones that make decisions and write the checks? If not, you're talking to the wrong people.
3) spend money. In almost every business out there you need to spend money to make the phone ring, or you have to have loads of time and talent to make lots of cold/sales calls. My guess is you'll hear of many guys here that simply rely on referrals. That's great once you're established, but you need to send out brochures and advertise to get the ball rolling.
In my opinion #3 is where most new businesses make their mistake. You forget how much it's going to take, in terms of dollars, to get this rocket in to orbit.
- Rob
Most guys I know who have gone out on their own did so somewhat gradually. It was simply a matter of formalizing the business and increasing the number of side jobs until it was a full time gig. Even then, the initial business wears off and there are lean times where these same guys would work for much less than their usual rate to fill time and pay bills.
This may not work everywhere, but in most smallish towns I've lived in doing a simple job in the handy man category would quickly get your name around if they like you and your work. This may help to get by on until larger jobs come along. Hate to see you ringing a bell at Walmart.
Some may question the ethics, but if it were me I'd contact every person whos house you've worked on and let them know that you're in business for yourself. Ask to keep you in mind if a project comes a long. Any excuse to let people know you're in business is good, and with these people you have some background.
Lumber yards sometimes keep the cards of contractors who are looking for work and give them out to customers who request them. Let these guys know on a regular basis that you're alive. Again, any excuse to network is good.
I'll bet on any given block there are at least a couple people who are either thinking of a remodel or know someone who is. Talk with anyone you know and get your name out.
Ok, it's Chrismas, I'll fork over my personal super secret source of good side jobs. Look for residential associations. They can be along a county road, in the middle of a town, or anywhere in between. Ask around. Keep asking. Someone is the president--find out who that is. Make the call, "Hellow Mr. SoAndSo, this is John Doe and I understand that you're the association president and I need your guidance and direction on something." Perking up like someone has just nominated them for the Nobel Peace Prize, "Oh, what can I help you with?" "I've started a small construction company and am willing to reduce my rates for any projects that might help your association out, until my schedule gets too busy. I'd simply like to drop off a few business cards if that's ok?" You've nominated him for the frickin Peace Prize so of course he will allow you the privledge of dropping off a few business cards. It gives you a chance to meet him or her in person. Once one person in the association likes you, you're set with multiple projects.
One mountain drainage in Colorado has 80 lots with 30 houses in the $1m range, 30 around $500k, 5 under construction and 5 owners building their own. Everyone is in one association. The owner of the house I was helping finish said if I wanted to he could recommend enough other jobs to keep me there indefinitely. I followed a skirt to another town, but it was great while it lasted.
Best of luck,
Don
JB, sorry to hear about the tough times. I have personally experienced it, and I guess the good news is that it can only get better.
First of all, you need to start hanging around this forum and especially the JLC Online forums and read all of the business threads. You already know more about carpentry than is necessary. It is now about business skills, not carpentry skills, and you can pick up a lot from the people here and at JLC.
Second, there are some good books on construction business. You probably should buy several and read them carefully. One is David Gerstel's 'Running a Successful Construction Company' and there are several others.
Third, do some marketing. Personally I think anyone in the trades should concentrate on getting photos of their work and putting together a portfolio and a website. Start talking to architects, kitchen designers, etc. and showing them your work.
Fourth, when you do get some work, concentrate on making sure your customer is 100% satisfied.
Hi JB, I was in the same boat about two years ago. Started out on my own without a huge list of prospects. My goal was to build the business up to the point of working on referrals only. Advertising gets the phone ringing, but it also brings a lot of tire-kickers and low-ballers.
Don has the right idea on scoping out the developments, there is so much hacked new construction out there, along with dated 80's-style tracts, that need serious help. It may be difficult getting the first job on a particular block, but once you do, the ball starts rolling (i.e the Smiths get new hardwood floors so now the Jones' have to have them). Get signs for the truck, show up on time and do good work.
There are so many drunks and con artists out there (at least here in WNC), that when people find some one who actually returns phone calls they are thrilled.
Good Luck!
DCS Inc.
"Whaddya mean I hurt your feelings, I didn't know you had any feelings." Dave Mustaine
Where do you want your company to go?
I know you want to do "carpentry" and "construction" but what exactly to you want to do?
1. A remodeling/renovation contractor working for homeowners?
2. A custom home builder/ GC?
3. A subcontractor working for other builder's in a specialized trade? (A framer, a sider, a roofer, a finish carpentry sub etc?)
4. Commercial contractor/subcontractor?
5. "Handyman" type small renovations and fix-alls working for homeowners?
Don't try to be all of them because you will spread your resources too thin. Figure out what it is you want to do and then you will know who to market to. Once you've done that, it'll be easier for everyone to offer you specific suggestions on your target market.
If I can do it, you can too. The first year was rough and full of less than desireable projects and much uncertainty. But the second year was much better and this, my third, year has been exactly what I had envisioned three years ago. But it didn't start "clicking" until I narrowed down my scope and figured out where I wanted to go.
Hey Diesel, can you elaborate a little. I too have been in business three years and its been ok but not great, I have a busy week this week but not alot after that. Which way did your business go?
I would prefer whole house types of jobs and have been steadily working to collect a set of good subs to provide these services. I know these jobs are out there but I really dont have a clue how to match myself up with these people.
I have clients that I do repeat work for and they give me referals but not always towards my goal.
I have 4 kids so if someone wants a kitchen floor tiled guess what i'm doing?
I started out in the trades framing and had a tiny bit of experience with remodeling. Then while framing I got my MA GC license just as something to do. Thought I wanted to be a remodeling GC. Thought wrong.
First year on my own I started out doing smaller remodeling jobs. I found out that I'm just not the "hand holding" type and couldn't stomach the stress. I also didn't really have a reliable repetoire of good subs in my back pocket either which further compounded my frustrations.
But the phone would still ring occasionally for framing jobs from guys who knew me from when I ran a crew for my old boss. I realized how relieved I was to get those framing jobs and a light went off. Stick to what you know. Stick to what you do best.
So I tooled up for full-time framing. And started beating the bushes with lumbersales men and calling GC's that I knew just to let them know that I had started my own framing crew and would really appreciate an "opportunity" from them. That's how it started to click. I'm still never booked more than a house or two out, but I'm sure things will continue to grow. I've never had to leave a frame under a cloud so I've got a good name and the referalls are starting to happen along with the repeat business from busy GC's.
I struggled the second year with a big crew, then a smaller crew, then settled on four of us and bought the forklift. That's what seems most manageable and productive for me anyway. We frame everything from additions up to 6000 sq ft houses but nothing much bigger. Yet anyway. I'm finding more and more that the most profitable houses for me are not necessarily the big tricked out ones, but the 2600 sqft colonial "starter" type houses. Anyway.. that's another story.
I get off on the stress. Nothing better for me than having to be in three places at once. Right now its just me and a helper and as I said before a growing list of good subs to rely on.
My only sub problem so far has been my HVAC guy (shame hes a good guy). Been two months and hes still not done w/ my flip house, he's just blown himself off the list. I have drywall, plumbing, electric, hell i'm almost ready to install the kitchen and still dont have the AC unit (barely have the furnace).
If this was a job for a client he would have been gone after the first week he didnt show and now I have what I think is his replacement.
I guess I just need to figure out where my customers go and go there.
Networking with other small contractors works well. I have competitors that I meet with monthly, we shares thoughts and tips, but mostly share work load..If one guy is busy and would like to pawn work of to another. When your slow it's nice to get free work, even if it's discounted. then when your busy, it good to have a team behind you for bigger projects, or to return the favor.
Obviously talk about PITA HOs or vendor problems, subs, GCs, inspectors, are also discussed which comes in handy at times.
There is lots of good advice here. I agree that you have to start out gradually. It's impossible to start a business overnight.
To be perfectly honest, I have no idea how my business started. It just started. I was subbing as a carpenter for a good friend, so I needed to get a small liability policy. Since I was paying for the coverage, I figured I might as well start taking on small side jobs. Through those side jobs I started making contacts. Then one day my phone rings, and it's a custom home builder saying he has 3500sf custom that needs trimmed ASAP. I told my friend about the offer, and he said no worries, go. After that, it's been a whirl wind.
Over the years, working as an employee, I learned doing it right, the first time was the key. Quality work sells itself. If you work hard, people notice. So, that's always been my focus. Now, my biggest problem is getting estimates right, and placing the proper value on my time/work.
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Swimming through the ashes of another life, no real reason to accept the way things have changed. Wrapped in guilt, sealed up tight.
Now, my biggest problem is getting estimates right, and placing the proper value on my time/work
Man, ain't that the truth. No where to go to really learn it either. Too many variables specific to each of us and our business. All the while trying to stay "competitive". Trial and error. Tuition payments at the school of hard knocks. At least it gets easier with time and some careful tracking.
Honestly, I'm glad I don't have a family to support. I can't imagine the stress of bidding jobs, when there are 3 kids at home. Now, If I f up a bid, I just eat at Wendy's instead of the steakhouse. ---------------------
Swimming through the ashes of another life, no real reason to accept the way things have changed. Wrapped in guilt, sealed up tight.
The hardest thing to get down is estimation of time. Material use isn't bad but time is tough. I try to keep a mental and sometimes a written record of how long it takes us to do things, especially those items we quote only once a year or so. But diesel said it, tuition. DanT
You may want to try SCORE (Service Corps of Retired Executives). This is a free service provided by volunteers.
http://www.score.org/
jb,
What Dieselpig said. When I started on my own, I was all over the place. When all you are doing is going out to look for work, it's like you're begging them to let you do something for them.
When you have one or two things you do, you are selling them something. As a guy looking for work it was always hard to convince anyone they "Needed" you. But as a Framer, every builder needs one so I sold framing.
When prices were on the way down instead of up and expenses were on the way up and I decided not to try another batch of illegals or drunks to fill out my crew I went to work alone. At first I was wandering around but then it dawned on me and I started "Selling" again. I was a stair guy and trimmer. In two months I went from working two or three days a week to booked six days a week for three months.
Plus, doing one or only a few different things for a while will help you build a data base of estimates and times and other valuable info that will help you later on.
I am having a supper hard time getting some jobs
Does this mean that your phone is ringing, but you are not landing work? Or does it mean that your phone is not even ringing?
If you are getting calls but not landing work, brush up on your sales and presentation skills. Learn, use, and get comfortable using certain closing techniques. The book I learned the most from was "Secrets of Closing The Sale" by Zig Ziglar.
If you are not even getting calls, or the calls are not what you want, brush up on marketing. Someone mentioned "Guerrilla Marketing" by Jay Levinson, which was good. However for me the most important marketing is when I am face to face with anybody, anywhere, anytime.
Anytime you are around people, can you hand them a business card within 5 seconds if they ask for one? Can you do a 15 to 30 second "commercial" of your services if someone asks you what you do?
When I started out as a solo remodeler, (1991) believe me I fell flat on my face business wise. I got a few jobs from people I knew, a few jobs from adds in the paper, a few from a local lumberyard, and a few from a cabinet shop. The small jobs from the lumberyard and cabinet shop quite often rolled into more work, and larger jobs after I did the small project. Eventually I was getting referals from a plumber that I had used.
A few years back the lumberyard went under, and the cabinet shop was sold. I had not realized how dependent I had been on those sources of work, and referals from their jobs. So all this sales and marketing and networking talk is fresh in mind because I had to jump start the work again.
The new lumberyard I use has zero retail traffic, so I have gotten no work from them. The cabinet shop uses me on a limited basis, but this is the first year I have brought more work to them, than they brought to me. Same with the plumber.
Someone else mentioned SCORE. I found their usefullness to be limited. My first counselor ran a 200 person commercial HVAC operation, so it was not an ideal match. The second time I had a counselor he was an engineer who designed wastewater treatment plants, not exactly a match either. They provided some insight, but were not able to walk me through the operation of a small one man operation. But I would recommend you do it anyway, just for the practice of getting face to face with people.
Good Luck with it
Bowz
One of my best moves was joining the Porsche club.Got involved in alot of the activities and everybody asks what you do next thing I know 50% of my business comes from my networking thru the club.Also this group is in the upper income brackets and have extra money to do additions etc.
This can apply to about any group so if you have an interest that has a club in your area join get invovled and sell your self.
ANDYSZ2I MAY DISAGREE WITH WHAT YOUR SAYING BUT I WILL DEFEND TO THE DEATH YOUR RIGHT TO SAY IT.
Remodeler/Punchout
To all,
keep in mind that if there is something you would " rather not do"
it is probably something a lot of other people would" rather not do"
THAT"S an opportunity----and since no one wants to do it---you can CHARGE well for it.
Eventually you will find that as you are getting pretty good at it---and making money at it------ you don't really mind it after all.
Regaurding the SCORE program---tried it many years ago.
wouldn't really recommend it. My experience was that the SCORE exec.s---came from a larger corporate backgound----didn't really have relevant experience to what you want to do---and basically were well meaning retirees just trying to get out of the house.
If you are looking to retail your services directly to homeowners---you need to MEET homeowners socially---through church,clubs,volunteer org.s, your kids schools, your own neighborhood------any opportunity for people to evaluate YOU as a person.
It takes time and I really don't know any shortcuts to it
good Luck,Stephen
Tell me you don't have a lumber rack or toolboxes on your Porsche!
No but I worked out of my Stealth for a year before I traded it for a truck.
ANDYSZ2
I MAY DISAGREE WITH WHAT YOUR SAYING BUT I WILL DEFEND TO THE DEATH YOUR RIGHT TO SAY IT.
Remodeler/Punchout
here's my one little tip ...
every sunday scan the "want ad's" and circle eny and everything that sounds to be work up your alley ... then call Monday Morning ...
say U know they placed an ad for an employee, but were wondering if they'd ever consider a subcontractor to fill their needs, either short term or long term.
90% of the time ... they're pissed U bothered them ... the other 10 ...
there are your new leads.
set up the interview/meetings ... hit them fast ... before they can hire someone ...
tell them U can drop by for a quick visit Monday afternoon ... maybe 1pm?
and ... bring that picture portfolio you've been organizing.
I'm plenty busy at the moment ... but I still scan those ad's every Sunday ...
every now and then ... even with enough work ... one still jumps out and makes me call to ask ...
And .... what's your focus. Mine is high-end kitchen/bath sub ... cab's trim/tile.
Last year at this time ... I was hungry for work. Got out the yellow pages ... and called each and every ad that looked to be high end ... then ... went on line and emailed every other name I could find.
Place I'm working for now I first met with last Jan ... just took till last month for our schedules to work out.
Cold calling ... learn how ... then do it.
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa