When a new hardwood floor is installed is it common practice for the floors to be sanded down before finishing or is it just laid and finished. I had a guy give me a price and said have the floors installed and he will come in and finish them but he’s not sanding. Doesn’t sound right to me, I thought even though newly installed they should stil be passed over with a sander at least to take out any high spots etc.. Was wondering how it works, sand or no sanding on new installations. Thanks as always fella’s. Also the installer told me to expect about 200 sq. ft. per day per man on installation ( that’s how much to expect to get done per day). Does this seem accurate? Thanks for input.
Mickey
Replies
the installer is moving right along if he'll average 200 sf/man/day
and no, you don't apply any finish until the floor has been sanded thru the cycle... coarse to medium to fine... and screened between coats... 4 coats
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Thanks for taking the time to reply Mike
Just had our floors done -- 1120 Sq Ft. downstairs -- took one man 3 and 1/2 days. Underlay was down and the wood staged and stickered (by me) before he stared. Upstairs 940 Sq Ft. 2 and 1/2 days. He put in hard 8 hour days. My guy was good- very good and very selective on the wood and did a first class job. He worked by the square foot and I supplied the wood and felt. While I had the wood in place (staged) he did lay the felt. We used #2 red oak because we wanted the wide color variation and the small knots and worm holes. (Timber frame home wanted more rustic.) There are a lot of defects in # 2 red oak that need to be culled out. (wind checks, bigger knots, splits etc.) For # 2 red oak I would say you need at about 10 % overage if you want to be selective.
Wood needs to be sanded -- first two passes -- and then holes and small defects filled and then final sanding followed by at least two screening.
My installation contractor only lays floor, doesn't finish -- had another contrator for that. Finishing contractor was not up to the standard of the installation but OK. Cost to lay the floor and to do the finishing were about the same per square foot. (not including the cost of the wood or the cost of the finish)
deblacksmith
I've done 250 on a good hard day buy wouldn't want to do it that pace all the time. I suppose someone doing it every day could manage more with materials stocked in place.
ALWAYS SAND
lose the guy who says no sanding - Quick! He's a fraud!
Even if you could tolerate the raised edges and nicks, there is a mill glaze on the wood that will prevent you from getting a smooth stain or good bond on the finish material.
Price here is about 2.50 to install and 2.50 to finish for the labor. Maybe a little less for new work.
.
Excellence is its own reward!
Edited 4/8/2003 10:37:33 PM ET by piffin
It always astonishes me at the prices you guys get for hardwood installation! I live in Quebec and the going price is $1.65 /sqft for new work and 1.10/sqft for the finish and that is in Canadian dollars! Is that the price pretty much all over the states or is your price regional? I think I'll spend my winters installing floors in Florida!
The material itself runs about $3.50 Canadian for select oak and around $5.00 Canadian for pre finished select oak.
kev
Hey Kev,
How much for 3/4"x 3-1/2" Birch or Maple? What company would you recomend for both the wood and prefinished engineered Birch or Maple?
Thanks Turtleboy
3/4"x3 1/2" maple will run you $5.75 /sqft with a $.66 discount this month making it $5.09 that is for prefinished. I know the price because I just installed some today. I buy my prefinished wood from mirage. It is an excellent product that costs a bit more but you make up the cost with the install. Every board is good and you do not have to even check them when installing them just grab and place, very nice wood. I purchase my non finished wood from a local supplier and I believe the original mill is boa franc. A good product but not as nice as mirage. Takes a little more effort to get a perfect job. The mirage price is for select wood. They only sell two types-select and traditional. The traditional is nicer than most other manufacturers selects. Non finished select will run you about $3.75/sqft.
I've recently put down some select and better maple 3/4" x 2-1/4" prefinished from a company in Quebec called Preverco. It cost me $5.00 per sq.ft. ($CAN) for the material and the quality of the milling and finish is very high although they seem to be hugging the margin on the grade (more color variation than I would like).
Paul
You guys can work for chgeaper wages because your health and comp ins. is 'free'
.
Excellence is its own reward!
Free? I wish....
Free is a relative term. Any government policy is never free, we pay for it somewhere! Yes our health care is "free" meaning if I break my leg I do not pay to get the cast but my wages are not covered. I have to pay for insurance for that probably the same as you do I guess. I'm not sure if it is an over head occurrence driving the price (because our government is pretty greedy here) but there are a lot more variables there. It would not be so bad if the prices were close but there is a good difference there when you take into account the exchange rate! Do your hardwood contracts make you good money or are they the average wage earners?
just curious
Kev
over the last five years I've paid anywhere from $2 to $4.50 to subs for floor finishing, they include sandpaper and the product. Depends on job size, access, new or redo, etc.
I don't think anyone is getting rich on it..
Excellence is its own reward!
Working alone I average 500 sq. ft. per week (40-50 hrs.) install, sand and finish. At $5.25 per sq. ft. ($3.00 install, $2.25 S&F) that's $2625.00 per week gross. Take away 20% for overhead and 30% for Uncle Sam...that nets me about $1300 a week. Not bad...but definately not getting rich.Ditch
I think I need to hire some installers from Quebec, I pay at least 2.25/sf. here......
"here" is about where? I think I remember Ontario, right? If so where abouts? For that price I'll try to go "stealthy" west of the border for some jobs! I did do some work just outside Toronto that paid extremely well and the clients were very pleased with the price.
kev
Toronto area.
I've paid 4.00 s/f for mirage traditional 3.25" prefisnished.
Every board in the box is useable.
Thanks for all your responses, you all have given me alot of insight. One more question, this is unfinished 3/4 x 2 1/4 red oak, does the finisher ( sander/stainer) also usually putty any nail heads from face nailing and filling any seams that aren't real tight, i've noticed alot of times that even a good installation leaves some seams and high spots that need to be sanded flush and filled with putty. Thanks
Mick
I charge 3.50 to install plywood on slab. 3.50 to install the floor and 3.50 to sand and apply two coats of oil polyurethane. 1.75/ft more for a stain ( I water tack the wood, stain and apply three coats of oil poly to a stain job. .75 cents for additional coats of poly. Installation of strip average 150 sf per installer per day (7.25 hours/day). Large open areas can be 225/day or slightly more. Finishing of #2 would usually get a trowel filling of patching compound to fill all of the missing wood and nail holes. I do the job 100% from start to finish and people pay the price for all of the detail work that I supply. Nothing is over looked, and I don't ever get a pick up list. GW
All unfinished solid flooring, MUST BE SANDED,prior to finishing, the product simply is not milled to tolerances that allow for pole sanding, fine sanding,etc. Some people only install, some install/finish . And Yes finishing is sand/fill/sand/finish . There is a definite process to this, once you have decided on the product, as your outlet, their recommended procedure, you will soon see if your ( installer/finisher ) knows YOUR product. During the finishing process your entire floor should be trowel filled with a cellular filler, larger gaps, hopefully not there can be filled as well. Manufacturers often allow up to 5% tolerances in milling and say that filling is standard practice. Which goes back to the need for finishing of UNfinishied flooring.
Cheers.
it must be sanded before any finish with at least three different grades of paper. Here a finisher will apply 1 sealer and two top coats. 200sqft/day is a good pace but depending where you count the laying. I can easily do that if there is no doorways and I am in the middle of a 400 sqft room but 200sqft/day average on a complete house makes me tired thinking of it. I only install part time but am sure like piffen said men who only do that work probably have that pace all the time. Not sanding the floors before finish and installing 200sq/ft per day don't go together. If he installs at that pace he is good and not sanding he is not good. Maybe the guy is trying to sell you with a pace that sounds good.
kev
Mick,
Most finishers use the term "finish" to mean sand and finish.
"You put 'em down and I'll finish 'em for ya".....means sand and coat.
Check back with the guy and clarify.
Ditch
Mick,
It might be that the type of floor you have is one that does not need to be sanded. Some floors are prefinished, so once the floor is laid you clean up and your done. Alot of times they have a slight chamfer on the edges to mask small irregularities.
But, if you do have a regular 3/4" strip floor, unfinished from the mill, then you should demand a sanding. I would be somewhat leery of this guy, unless it's just an honest misunderstanding between the two of you.
Jon Blakemore
Around here, N.E. Wisconsin, some flooring mills offer a pre sanded product. It has a slight broken edge, is not pre-finished, and only requires a fine sanding, or screening, prior to finishing. 200 sf in 8 hrs is a good pace. I,ve done 250 a few times, but that was mostly wider stock.
Brudoggie