Hardwood Flooring over I-beam – Help
I need to patch about 150 sqft of red oak HW flooring on the second floor. On the first floor, below this area, a bearing wall was removed and a flush I-beam installed in it’s place. The I-beam is about 8″ wide and is flush against the underside of the upstairs subfloor (1/2″ ply). The flooring runs paralell to the beam, so when I reinstall the HW there will be a strip about 8″ wide running the length of the house where I won’t be able to nail down the HW, but I can nail on either side of the strip. Can I glue the flooring down in that area and nail the rest? I could use weights to secure it until the glue dries. If so, what type of glue? Any other ideas?
Jerry
Replies
Why can't you nail it down? You say there is 1/2" subfloor over the steel. use glue and make sure the anils are short enough that they don't curl back up and out the surfacce
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"...make sure the nails are short enough that they don't curl back up and out the surface."That is exactly waht I was worried about. If they punch through they'll push the up the floor since the beam is flush to the subfloor. I also wasn't sure if there was any point to nailing if not into the joists. I didn't think the 1/2" ply would have much holding power, especially since it's in such bad shape. I guess the nails will at least hold until the glue dries. I was going to use PL Premium (polyurethane).Jerry
I never make any effort to nail into the joists with hardwood flooring. The PL Premium is a good choice
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In fact, one manufacturer's instructions specifically say "Do not nail into the joists". Something about allowing the flooring to expand and contract.
PL Premium needs water to set up. Read the tube. If you are using it on kiln dried surfaces it don' sticky too good.
Good old yellow carpenters glue will outperform tube glues in almost every wood to wood aplication.
At a fraction of the price.
Gord
Edited 4/8/2006 10:37 pm by gordsco
polyurethene glues don't need water. they need moisture. They can take it from the atmosphere, unless you are out in the Saharah desert. They also have expansion qualities that make them go further than yellow glue per dollar for settings like this, and can provide some creep to accomodate wood movement. I'll use the wood worers glue for wood working and the structural glue for structural work.
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<<polyurethene glues don't need water. they need moisture. They can take it from the atmosphere, unless you are out in the Saharah desert. They also have expansion qualities that make them go further than yellow glue per dollar for settings like this, and can provide some creep to accomodate wood movement. I'll use the wood worers glue for wood working and the structural glue for structural work.>>I agree. I love the PU glues; great stuff (unless you get it on your hands - and I always do!) I will have to nail into the joists though, as there is radiant staple-up underneath. The old floor I pulled up was nailed that way so I guess it will be OK.Thanks All,
Jerry
Recently I've been repairing some work for a stair company on the east coast. I'm disassembling, and replacing more now than previously in my career.
Removing damaged hardwood treads set with PL Premium are about the easiest. Insert pry bar between stringer and tread and whack until I hear an audible POP! Most treads come out in one piece. The dried Premium has the consitency of hard plastic and zero flex.
Treads set with yellow glue often come out in pieces.
So whats the difference? One of my theories is the fasteners (15ga or 16 ga nails) do not have enough holding power to stop the PL Premium from expanding upward. As the poly glue expands the two surfaces are separated by a bridge of expanding glue. Subsequent walking on the stairs over the next 48 hrs weakens the glue bridge.
Up until 4 months ago I considered tube glues to be superior adhesives, but what I'm seeing is changing my mind.
Gord
You sure that isn't PL 200 or 400 you are dealing with?
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The Premium PU really is tough stuff. Cut out a section of bottom plate (for a doorway) that had been glued to a concrete slab with the stuff. After repeated wacking with a heavy hammer the plate came off with bits of concrete still attached. Way superior to the 200 or 400.
Edited 4/9/2006 3:08 am ET by Jerry18
PL 200 or 400?
Its Premium.
I've done some test firing of adhesives on my own. Dried PL 200 has the consistency of latex caulking and is very flexible. The final set up time is several days. A poor choice for treads but OK for wall skirts.
PL 400 has a quick set up time and holds very well. Tough to take out treads set in 400. The trouble with 400 nowdays is they have changed the formula to make it flow at -0º temperatures. At room temp the stuff is very runny and without care gets everywhere. Near impossible to remove from finished surfaces.
The advantage of the Premium and the 400 are gap filling qualities and weatherability. For interior applications and reasonably tight fits. Yellow glue is the way to go IMO.
Gord
Ever see a tread pop off that way in service?
Just curious.
Seems that if not, being able to remove the treads in one piece might actually be a benefit for repairs decades down the road.
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Not treads, I've seen nosings at the top of stairs pop but quite a bit of the subfloor comes with it.
A hardwood tread is different. Its an end grain to flat grain connection. Much of the glue is absorbed into the endgrain of the stringer. Gord
If they punch through they'll push the up the floor since the beam is flush to the subfloor.
It's more likely that if a gun driven nail or staple hits an "immovable object" it will crinkle (only way I can describe it) like an accordian and put a deep gouge in the surface of the board, ruining it. Don't ask me how I know that. ;-)
If it doesn't crinkle, it will probably just curl back up into the wood; won't push it up though, it'll go through on the way out just like it goes through on the way in.
Anyway, you have your answer, just passing along some lessons learned the hard way. ;-)
"Let's get crack-a-lackin" --- Adam Carolla
...and flooring nails that go through the the subfloor that's over a steel beam have a nasty tendency to squeak, no matter which way they curl...please,don't ever ask me how I know this<G> Hey, pocket doors can't come off the track if they're nailed open
I nailed some hardwood over 3/4 inch subfloor with radiant tubing last year, bought a case of 1 1/2 inch nails so we would not drive a hole into the tubing. Glue would work but I would drill a 3/32 hole through the tongue at a 45 degree angle about every foot or so and use regular ardox finish nails . Hammer them in carefully with a hammer and tap them in with a punch. I think I would use lepage or probond yellow glue.
Have a good day
Cliffy