Hi Everyone;
I’m about to undertake a complete kitchen gut / remodel. Unfortunately, I’m going to be playing with three load bearing walls.
One (13′ long) currently has two doorways. This wall is being completely removed (I’ll let a structural engineer design that beam and supports).
The second is an exterior wall running parallel to the floor / ceiling joists. Currently it has 6′ of windows. I’m going to replace that with a bay window about 8′ wide.
The third wall (interior) is perpendicular to the joist. It has a door at one end of the wall. I’m going to move the door to the center of the wall and install a 4′ pocket door. The old doorway header will have to be removed to make room for the new header.
After reading the new issue of FHB, I like their idea of installing a header without building temporary support for the floor above. Since my walls have existing headers that will have to be replaced, does anyone know of a similar trick to remove the old and install new headers without building a support wall?
The window wall has a header that will have to be replaced and is parallel to the joists. How the hell do I support the floor above?? There is another large window directly above (plus roof), it is loaded!
Thanks!!
Rob
Replies
>Since my walls have existing headers that will have to be replaced, does anyone know of a similar trick to remove the old and install new headers without building a support wall?<
No. Temp walls are not a big deal. Strip everything till you're ready to install, then stick your temp studs & plates at a workable distance from where the header is going, pop in your king & jack studs and pop in your head.
When working alone I like to measure tight, put up the kings, lean the jacks against the kings as to leave an opening an inch or so wider than the head, lift the head up in place one end at a time balencing them on the jacks, then drive the jacks home with my lump or sledge at the base which lifts the head into place. Makes for a nice tight fit.
Your window on the second floor should be alright as you change the header under it for another window. It should be riding on the rim joist which, for the time it takes you to switch out to a new header, should be fine.
As a precautionary, you should buy a large tank of helium and empty it into the room.
As a precautionary, you should buy a large tank of helium and empty it into the room.
everyone always forgets that part ...
can't tell ya the number of times it's saved me.
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Yeah, but the helium makes you talk funny.
Jeff,
Always
talks
funny
ba dum
bum!
very nice ....
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
(I'll let a structural engineer design that beam and supports).
Do yourself a favor and let the engineer design all three. It will be only one site visit, and the additional cost won't be much. I would sleep better at night that way.
Ditto Jer ... get a big sky hook at the rental store.
Actually, after you demo all the sheetrock etc and gather the new material, put some temp supports in place. Lay a long 2x8 on the floor, hold another against the ceiling, and wedge a couple more in the middle and the ends for supports. You want to do this perpendicular to the floor and ceiling joists.
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
So, how do I hold up the wall running parallel to the joists? The window above isn't as wide as the header I'll be installing.They did some funky stuff when this house was built ('71). One of the load bearing walls is offset from the steel beam in the basement. So now I need to block between two floor joists to give the king and jacks something to sit on.When I build the temporary support walls, should I built one directly below it in the basement??
Big O,
I gotta agree with Framer here when he says this is a job for a pro. To an experienced pro this is a moderately difficult endeavor. However, not knowing your expertise, and assuming you are relatively unfamiliar with structural framing, this task will be extremely difficult for a DIY'er like yourself.
If you can find someone to do it for you you might be able to save some money by doing all of the gut work before they get there.
That being said, I am also very familiar with the attitude of " it cant be that hard, and I'll save a ton of money if I do it myself." Temporary walls are key. I would place a 2x4 on the ground and nail a 2x4 to the ceiling/ bottom of the joist since they will be exp[osed. Then fill in with a stud under each joist, nice and tight, hammer them in and nail. Once that is all set up go ahead and tear out the header and replace. MAKE SURE YOU HAVE DONE EVERYTHING YOU CAN BEFOREHAND! I mean all gutting, layout of new window opening, king studs nailed in(if possible), everything precut and header assembled. Install the header like the first poster suggested, lean jacks etc...
The wall paralell with the joists should not be too big of a problem because there should be a floor joist on top of the wall(also called a rim joist) that will act as a header while you have the wall opened up. Again, make sure you have everything precut and ready before you take out the header.
Double check your layout to make sure the new windows will fit, nothing sucks more than framing an opening too small and having t redo it all.
Now before you start, read tauntons book on framing and identify yourself with all the tools that you will need beforehand. If you have to buy tools, take that off of the estimate you got from the contractor and you might find out you wont save as much as you think. Either way good luck and have fun.
Matt
Matt,It amazes me how many people think that any type of framing is a DIY'er project. Sometimes people ask about removing lally columns and what size beams to put in or can they take down a 20' bearing wall....etc.Framing is what HOLDS UP YOUR HOUSE. Jobs like this aren't meant for a DIY'er. Hell, I know some contractors around here that can't even handle things like this. Ripping out bearing walls and building temp walls and installing beams takes a lot of experience, skill,technique, planning, proper prep work and man power do. If you don't have that it's very dangerous and these people have to understand that and sometimes they don't.Sometimes people ask these questions and then they don't here what they want to here and cop and attitude with the people here who give advice. How does one cop and attitude with the pros here who do this every day who give their professional advice in beyond me.Joe Carola
Was I copping an attitude???"Sometimes people ask these questions and then they don't here what they want to here and cop and attitude with the people here who give advice. How does one cop and attitude with the pros here who do this every day who give their professional advice in beyond me."
"Was I copping an attitude???"No, you weren't. I was saying that some people do. I didn't say you. Just be careful if you choose to do this job. Don't know what you do for a living because you never filled out your profile and with all the questions your asking you obviously have never done anything like this before.Your either a Homeowner trying to do whatever you can do which is fine but this project with removing three load bearing walls isn't one of them.Or your a Contractor just starting out and needs advice which is also fine but my advice is to get a Contractor that does this kind of thing every day to help you or he can do it with his crew and you watch and learn.Or your just a Hoomeowner who is trying to do all this himself and has had a few prices and you think that there way to high and your trying to save money. I can understand that but like I said above some things are just not meant for you to do. This job is way over your head and if you tackle this by yourself it can come down on your head.Joe Carola
Ok, I'll give you some background. No groaning allowed!I'm a mechanical engineer (I can hear you from here :-). I know what I can, and can't do! I can design a beam from scratch w/o using tables. As applied to the house, I don't know the static and live loads and don't want to climb through the attic to look at the load path through the trusses. Thats why I'll let a structural engineer or PE design the header for the long wall (but you can bet I'll double check everything he does).The window wall is going to be exactly the same as the one in the dining room and the rooms above the two are also the same. I need to repair the sheetrock around the DR window. When I open it up, I'll see what size header was used when the house was built. Since I have room, I'll go larger with the one I install in the kitchen.The pocket door header is small enough in length that I can easily overbuild so that strength won't be an issue.All the questions about temp. support walls are based on the many ways I've seen it done and recommended. I haven't looked up the profile of anyone posting replies, but figured I'd get some good info from the forum. Based on the strength of this house (or lack there of), I will support below the kitchen floor in the basement and build the temp support directly above to provide a continuous load path.Having someone else do the kitchen was never a consideration. I enjoy doing it, like to build "Code Plus" (as TOH Tom Silva puts it), and belive it comes out better than the less than avg work most people I know seem to end up with.I think we're now getting way off topic and can let this thread die.Thanks for the advice! I'm sure I'll be posting more questions as the design progresses.I'll post pictures when done (probably towards the fall) or pictures of the house caved in when it falls!
Ah, the rim joist, I forgot about that. I now know exactly what to do!Let me step back and just say that I'm not a complete novice. Just looking for ALL and EVERY opinion before starting the job. I definitely don't have the "it cant be that hard" attitude. I recently went through the exercise of jacking part of the house and replacing a rotted sill and rim. A contractor friend has been impressed with everything I've done so far and keeps telling me I should quit my real job and do this full time.I'll get the books!!Tools, think I'm all set and have framing gun, circular saw, table saw, miter saw, pry bars, wonder bars, sawzall, screw guns, levels, squares, ...... I just got done replacing all the windows in the house and hanging Hardiplank on the back.I plan on having the window here prior to framing. I had an issue when an Amana appliance wasn't the dimensions listed in their info (sisters kitchen remodel, bro-in-law built all the cherry cabinets including doors). I don't want that to happen again!Fun, you bet!!!! But only after all the design work is done. I'll be pulling all new electrical and moving plumbing. Don't worry, I plan a project to death before cutting the first piece of sheetrock!Thanks again!
"I'm about to undertake a complete kitchen gut / remodel. Unfortunately, I'm going to be playing with three load bearing walls."
Which also means that your playing with fire and your going to get burned.There's certain projects that are just not for DIY'rs and this one certainly is one of them.
Dealing with one load bearing wall is enough for guys who do this for a living and you have three. No one here can help you with this without seeing your house. Higher an Engineer like you said to calc the beams and then higher a professional to do the job on their own or you work with one.