I want to open a load bearing wall in your standard 2100 foot colonial from the dining into the living to combine the rooms into one. What size header (2x if possible) would I need to use for a 14′ opening on a 2×4 wall?
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A structural question like yours is best answered by an engineer. Without drawings, roof load info (snow load, roofing material), and more, we are clueless. You say it is a bearing wall you want to open, but we don't know anything about the load paths above or below.
OK, I'm going to start the ball rolling. Welcome to Breaktime.
The detailed information I am going to give you will serve a number of purposes:
Save your life, and possibly your family's;
Save your home;
Ensure you can still get insurance;
Save you from your mortgage holder's lawsuit.
Step one: HIRE A STRUCTURAL ENGINEER!!!
Step two: GET PERMITS!!!
Step three: HIRE A PROFESSIONAL!!! If you were a professional, or even adept, you would not be asking the question the way you are doing it.
PLEASE get advice!
You can find my email address on the Profile section for hate mail.
Quality repairs for your home.
AaronR Construction
Vancouver, Canada
Edited 11/20/2005 8:13 pm by AaronRosenthal
thanks for the condesending reply!!! At least the other two replies didnt use this opportunity to take a shot at me!!!What a jerk! Treat your customers the way you treat people in this forum and good luck to you!I dont need your email for hate mail....not going to waste my time.Funny though that you would mention hate mail.....you must get plenty!!Thanks to the other two guys who replied!!! YOUR advice will be taken seriously!!
Aaron's in a bad mood cuz his team lost, but he's got the right answer ... you need someone to see the building in-person and make a decision.
Bottom line ... it can be done. Lvl, steel beam, whatever, it can be done. But you are way short on information to get a decent answer.
I don't suppose there's a chance that you're on a concrete slab, and the subject wall runs parallel to the second floor joists.
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Edited 11/20/2005 9:47 pm ET by FastEddie
I didn't think that was condescending at all Nlucci. Actually the only thing that even approaches condescending was his intuitive statement saying that you didn't have enough professional experience to ask the right question. I agree with him. Someone that has a clue, would have given more clues.
Theoretically, you could be creating quite a mess for yourself if you make a wrong move here. On the other hand, it might be just a economical mess. Or, you might even get lucky.
I wouldn't get too huffy becuase someone's trying to give you a wake up call.
For the record, I'll take a wild guess: Since it's a relatively small two story, I'm assuming relatively small spans and roof trusses, no point loads etc. I'd probably put two 12 micros in if it was my house. If I had deeper ones, I'd feel better, but I'd start with the cheaper, then watch it for settling issues.
Of course, you also need to understand your bearing. You might be creating two point loads that might affect your bearings.
Take a chill pill and if you whittle those 16" logs, don't expect them to hold up if they are the wrong species.
blue
Why are you guys assuming that it is a two story house? He hasn't even said that much.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Piffin, when someone tells me 2100 sf, I can pretty much tell you the layout! LoL
Actually, I just assumed it was a two story and based my suggestion on what a two story here in michigan would be built like. It actually sounds like he's opening up the center bearing wall. There's probably a 6' arch in there now or something like that. The bigger surprise that he'll find is that every stud span that he's thinking of tearing out will have mechanicals in it! It ain't easy to re locate that much stuff with a full spanned arched opening.
He's already been told by four people to get a professional opinion, so I really don't care if he uses two 2x6's to span his 14' opening. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. He's been warned by everyone, including me.
blue
I just figure it's curious to see so many answers when theree is only about ten percent - maybe, of the needed info to even give it a thought.if your assumptions are close, your suggestion is too, but you have to assume way too much to answer him
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Piffin, I don't think anyone actually gave him an answer, including me. Sometimes the poster just needs to get a very rudimentary idea of what MIGHT happen, in order to even bother considering whether a project like this is feasible. Let's call it a feasability study.
The posts suggesting a structural engineer are helpful, but then again, so are other disucussions relating to the topic. For instance, no one bothered to warn the guy about the multitude of mechanicals that could be a major deterrent buy everyone warned about getting a structural engineer. Perhaps we could tolerate a little balance.
I relayed some real world information regarding 14' microlams that I've installed in 2100 sf homes. Yes, I made assumptions, but I also qualified my answer with the "get professional help". That makes my answer useless too, which seems to be the goal around here, and everywhere else in the world today.
Shall I put my standard disclaimer back at the bottom of my signature? In the interest of saving useless bytes, I've spared everyone that boilerplate signature, but if anyone insists, I'll be glad to permanently re-instate it.
blue
Warning: don't ever take advice from me-blah, blah, blah, blah. Also, be warned that anyone offering advice online here could really be a devious ten year old kid with zero construction experience. If you actually take any advice from someone here, you deserve to have your house fall down on top of your head!
I didn't mean to sound like I wsa criticising you at all. I was probably too bored last night
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I don't mind criticism Piffin, even if it's not warranted. I took no offense at your post. I recently had to fend off a couple of DavidM's volleys and I'm sure I'll continue to be a target from others as long as I post here. I'm fairly certain that I'm on more than one person's ignore list, but that's okay with me too. I don't post things to stir up arguments, I just post what I live, think and feel. Vanilla is good, but sometimes it's okay to try an "exotic" flavor.
blue
A couple??
Yeah a couple! You emptied your double-barreled on me! That counts as two!
blue
Anybody putting you on ignore is missing a lot. I think I disagree with you occasionally, but I can't think of anyone who makes it a more enjoyable and interesting exchange!
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
That's a very nice compliment Piffin. Thank you.
I'll have to return the favor. Not today though, I'll sneak up on you sometime and surprise you.
Aw shucks, I might as well do it now: Actually, I appreciate many of your well researced replies. We do tend to be doing things differently many times, but I'm sure a lot of that is caused by regional necessities. Thanks for adding so much to this board.
blue
aw shucks...
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I'd start with the cheaper, then watch it for settling issues.
You better hope it settles slow, cuz if you undersize too much, it could "settle" with a bang.
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Name calling belongs in the Tavern......
So, would you walk into somewhere - let's say a part, a Drs. office or a store - and start yelling and making what could be construed as snide anti-semetic comments, and then expect every one to love you. Grow up...if you want advice - and good stuff - get off your position, and apologise to Aaron. He's saving your azz.All the best...
To those who know - this may be obvious. To those who don't - I hope I've helped.
where in the world did you imagine anything anti-semite in this thread?
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Uh oh, Piffin, I think it's going to be one of those days.I just caught myself at least 5 times, in this one thread saying, "Man, Piffin just said exactly what I was going to say."
A soldier will fight long and hard for a bit of coloured ribbon. - Napoleon Boneparte
All of that before 6AM too!, LOLNever thought I'd see the day I could beat your fast connection - guess you were asleep at the switch last night, eh?
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
just my mind - looking out for the under-dog. Figured some one woul call me on it, but went ahead anyway.
All the best...
To those who know - this may be obvious. To those who don't - I hope I've helped.
Edited 11/21/2005 10:09 am by piko
I apologize.
I was not intending to be condescending. No way!
I was trying to emphasize that if "you" are planning on opening that wall, you need to have proper advice. Most of us learned in school, or the hard way - or both. Most of even carry special liability insurance in case of issues like this. And, I make LOTS of mistakes.
I never said you were inept - just not adept.
I never get hate mail when I give advice. I treat everyone on this forum with respect. If I did not respect you, and your need to safeguard your family, I would have scrolled down and passed your question by. I may have just saved you from financial ruin.
I knew you would not like my post. I stand by what I said.Quality repairs for your home.
AaronR ConstructionVancouver, Canada
Aaron, I feel like I just got through saying basically the same thing, on a whole other subject, in a completely different section of this forum.I just wanted to say that I DO appreciate your integrity, and level-headed justness. Knowing the truth of it is only a part of that appreciation.Still glad to know you after all these years.=0)
A soldier will fight long and hard for a bit of coloured ribbon. - Napoleon Boneparte
Most of us DIYers have no idea what "consult an engineer" means. I'm serious. I know how to find a painter, plumber,electrician, etc., but where in the Yellow Pages do I look to find an engineer, or at least the kind of engineer who can consult on the types of one-off problems that crop up on BT? This is an area where the pros could give us some good advice.
Any architect worth his sheepskin can look in his Rolodex or Palm and find his three of four favorite engineers for solving beam size issues like yours. Call a couple architects in your town, and they can refer you.
Another source is to find the best lumberyard serving pros in your area, and ask the person who heads up contractor sales. They'll know who the engineers are.
I'm not registered in my state, but I am qualified. If I were contacted by you, I would need to visit your site, and would be charging the kind of rate you pay your attorney.
Edited 11/22/2005 6:03 pm ET by Stinger
I didnt mean to start a war amongst you guys!!I never said I didnt agree or disagree with your buddy there, I just didnt like the way he responded.....I personally never call an idiot an idiot, even in a round about way....its bad Karma.Thanks though for everyones response. I have passed your suggestion about the engineer on to the person who asked me what they needed to do for the header.But for those who were wondering...it is a two story house, 2100 sq ft, the wall in question is the wall that splits the house front to back. The floor joists above are only 2x6, and the wall is 2x4. The bottom plate of the wall sits on top of a steel I-beam. I do not know the I-beam dimensions...both ends of the I-beam is inset into the cinder block basement wall on each end and there are two steel support posts spaced evenly between. I offer this info only for those of you who were guessing, I am not posting it to help size the header......we'll leave that to the pro's!!thanks again.......most of you!! lol
Nlucci, it doesn't take much to start a war, as you just found out. Don't worry though, it doesn't take much to mend fences either.
2x6 joists eh?
That kinda tells me that my suggestion might be overkill! lol!
The reason that I guessed that it was a two story is because if it was a one story and 2100 sf, it probably would already have had some fairly open spaces/arches and the need for opening up some more is kinda rare. Also, I've opened up a fair amount of two story walls.
Nlucci, you might warn them to look for mechanicals in the basement.
blue
That is a good question.My first reaction was, "Oh - Come on man, they're all over the place"And since i live in the same area as you, I turned and grabbed the yellow pages.Guess what -0 I was suprised to find no entries. There was a heading for civil engineer but no listings there.Then I thought about it. Every engineer I have used or worked with has been associated with or the contact first came through either an architectural firm or a surveying firm. None of the Architectural listings aroiund here mention engineering, but a few of the surveyors do. Now surveyors are mostly connected with expertise in soils and not structures, buit out in CO, I used one who was equally versed in both. I currently have uysed one in Portland, but I know that Professional survey and engineering in the Belfast area has a structural guy.But for most basic stuff, I take the layout info to the lumberyard and let them spec an LVL
If I need steel, I can take the l;oads to Rockport Steel and they can ge me the beam I need.
A lot of framers can do one this basic, if he has the correct infgo, but there is no way to know if you are being told all the right numbers over the web.it's only when I get out in creative territory that I go to a real engineer.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Hiring an engineer is the easiest, and probably safest route, no doubt. However, all of the information needed is out there - that's how the engineers learned it. Whether or not someone has the brains and the time to locate the needed reference materials and do the the sometimes difficult math is another story. Engineers are great, but a colonial isn't a bridge. That's not to say what they do is easy, but it's not magic. More like rocket science.
>> However, all of the information needed is out there << right... but WE don't have all the needed information. My guess is that there would be at least a hand full of people around here that could size the beam/header if the all the needed info were presented. Unfortunately, just by the way the question was initially asked, and by the lack of complete follow up info, I don't think this guy would be knowledgeable enough to reliably supply it. So, what an engineer or other building professional does is not only make recomdations, but also collects necessary data for those who don't really know what is involved to start with.
BTW - can you tell me what the expected miles-per-gallon would be for my vehicle? ;-) It's a standard full sized vehicle ;-) I'm sure all the info is out there...
yah, still have no idea if those 2x6s ( almost certainlyu alrady undersized already - now I'm assuming) are six feet long or twenty feet long or if the roof loads onto this wall so most of the pertinent info stillll AWOL
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
BTW - can you tell me what the expected miles-per-gallon would be for my vehicle? ;-) It's a standard full sized vehicle ;-) I'm sure all the info is out there...
I can tell you MarkT. If it's exactly like my vehichle, and you carry the same stuff as I do, and you drive the same as I do, on the same type of roads as I do, you'll get between 19 and 20 miles pergallon of diesel.
blue
11-13 City, 15-18 HighwayAnd, to be on the safe side, if my gas gauge were broken, I'd err on the side of caution by a few mpg. ;-D
Edited 11/24/2005 8:14 am ET by Demon
I don't need to hire an engineer? ;-)
I don't need to hire an engineer? ;-)
Mark,
Sometimes cheaper to do the rough math, overbuild by 3x to 6x times, than hire an engineer, and use an "engineered" solution. Brooklyn Bridge was built that way, and it's still standing.
WSJ
Your right Jon. And sometimes when you hire an engineer, it's still messed up1
Did I tell you about the time we were delayed framing a commercial building? The owner insisted on waiting for a specific civil engineer to layout the building lines. When we got there to frame it, it was 2' out of square over the 150' length! This building had multiple offsets everywhere and you could very easily see the obtuse and acute angles on every corner of the blockwork.
We asked the builder what he wanted to do and he said just frame it on top of the blocks. That was fun!
blue
yeah.. you did..
and you also told us how you eyeballed it back into line.... Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Funny Mike! No we didn't eyeball it. We simply followed the block. When we put the trusses on they definitly exposed the layout on the offsets. The hardest part was getting all the exterior trim to fit. Each corner either had an open mitre or a too tight mighter. Of course we eyeballed the change in when we tied the final parts.
The much larger issue would be the interior finish guys, especially the suspended ceiling guys, if they had any. Cabinets wouldn't be too fun either and any room that was small, like a bathroom could yield some big surprises.
Oh well, we got paid.
blue
"Oh well, we got paid."I'm sure you got paid a lot extra, right?Joe Carola
Sorry Joe, I only got paid what I contracted for. Nothing more, nothing less. And why shouldn't I get paid? I only did what the GC told me to do. I didn't hire the engineer. I didn't dig the footings. I didn't lay the block. All I did was point out the error.
Should the GC shoot the messenger or be thankful he had a carpenter that knew how to booger?
blue
"The hardest part was getting all the exterior trim to fit. Each corner either had an open mitre or a too tight mighter.""Sorry Joe, I only got paid what I contracted for. Nothing more, nothing less. And why shouldn't I get paid? I only did what the GC told me to do. I didn't hire the engineer. I didn't dig the footings. I didn't lay the block. All I did was point out the error.""Should the GC shoot the messenger or be thankful he had a carpenter that knew how to booger?"Blue,I asked if you got paid extra because it seemed like you had a lot of extra time involved with the exterior trim.You got paid what you were contracted for but you gave a price based on a foundation that wasn't 2' a out of wack and it cost you extra time labor wise to follow it.It's like the time the bozo mason screwed up the slab so bad that I was there forever trying to straighten everything out. I gave a contracted priced on that job but not based on spending all that time on the slab. So I got paid extra for my time.What if you didn't have trusses and you had to cut the rafters on that job and cut every rafter all different lengths to keep the ridge level. I'm sure you would get paid extra for that.Joe Carola
What if you didn't have trusses and you had to cut the rafters on that job and cut every rafter all different lengths to keep the ridge level. I'm sure you would get paid extra for that.
Actually Joe, if I remember correctly, we didn't charge anything extra. I think that job was a cost deal. I don't remember bidding it.
Even if we were cutting all the rafters, they all would have been the same because the building was a parallellogram. That particular job would have been much too large to cut rafters. The trusse if I remember correctly were 6/12 pitched and they were a two staged truss. The top piggy had a 40' bottom chord! That made the piggys 10 tall. The bottoms would have had an 80' bottom chord. With a 40' run, the rafter would have to be 45' long! I don't think they make rafter stock that long anymore! It didn't have any interior bearing wall either.
blue
What does it take, three or four guys to spin a truss like that? <G>The heck, you say?
Huck, those size trusses are like spaghetti. You'd have been impressed with the system we used to set them.
blue
You know that city building department meany that we all like to bash on any given day? Here he will size the beam for you as he goes over plans for a permit saving an engineering fee. Nice...for a meany.
:-)
Wow. Here they won't. Ours just check for a wet stamp. Amazing that yours would accept the liability on behalf of the city.
-- J.S.
>> Amazing that yours would accept the liability on behalf of the city. << re taking on liability, I'd be surprised if that is the case. For example the contracting laws in my state are such that the building inspector has no liability - ie - if he inspects it and it falls down a week later it is still 100% the responsibility of the contractor. Of course that doesn't keep a suit from being filed, but, still that is the way our laws are set up.
Plan check here includes confirmation of beam sizing by the inspector checking the plans. They get a lot of stuff submitted without engineering and will do the simpler stuff for you.
Same here, especially for small projects like decks, screened porches, etc. For full scale projects like new house plans an engineers stamp is required, and engineering is added to the plans by the eng/archi. Still, although everything goes through a permitting/plan check process, the municipality takes on no liability regradless of who suppleis the beam sizes, etc.
Just curious if you guys knew what these kind of things mean:
:-) ;-) :-(
On a more serious note, your point about sometimes NOT using an engineer is I guess what I was driving at earlier.... If this guy had of supplied full info to start with I'd bet that he would gotten a few if not several responses with reasonable SWAGs for the header size.
Edited 11/24/2005 12:35 pm ET by Mark_T
Just curious if you guys knew what these kind of things mean:
:-) ;-) :-(
Sure do: You are a terrible "typer" and constantly miss the "L" key, you love math...hence the "minus sign", and you have a bad habit of holding down the "shift" key every time you type a "zero".
Now get you a tutorial, and start practicing! hehehe
Right on, my friend. If your business is dependant upon your integrity...it must be booming!All the best...
To those who know - this may be obvious. To those who don't - I hope I've helped.
in other words, there is nothing standard about a 2100sf colonial other than some features of trim style. The 14' is only one of a good half dozen details needed to size it accurately.
but there is a long standing policy that any engineering recieved for free on the web is worth what you pay for it. Advising on something like this opens up a can of wriggling liabilities
sorry charlie
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a big one.
too big to guess at.
my standard "rule of thumb" ... is take the width of the opening ... in feet ...
and turn that number into "2x" depths ... and upsize it ... and double them up.
fer instance ... 8ft wide opening ...
would make for two 2x10's.
a 6ft opening .... two 2x8's.
and so on. So unless U can some a coupla 2x 16's laying around ... this is a job for someone with a calculator. Plus ... my very basic method of guessing is just a very basic method of guessing. Lotsa other variables go into it ... takes more than just standing in one spot and looking at a proposed opening.
Yours is too big an opening to even think about taking the easy way out.
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
.....i just found two 16" diameter pines out back of the house, so yer sayin if i cut em down and whittle em into 2x16's I should be set right??...lolthanks for the reply JeffBuck!
A standard two story colonial around here would have a first floor center wall with the second floor 2x10's or I-joists bearing on that wall which would be carrying the second floor center wall which would be carrying the second floor ceiling joists at which size you would need to know.
So no one here can help you unless you have all the information as to the size joists and there spans and maybe a beam above on the second floor. Headers above on the second floor. Maybe some posts down from the ridge. You need to know all this stuff especially for a 14' opening. That's not a small opening. Take the advice that's already been given and call an Architect or Engineer.
Good Luck.
as has been made clear you should have it engineered.
recently I was asked to price a basement reno, which included getting rid of a post that was one of the supports for a beam. Even with me being able to see everthing 1st hand, coupled with the fact that I've done this before, I made it clear that I would not touch it unless it was engineered.
Bottom line - even if you were able to provide enough info for someone to give you a decent answer. for this sort of situation it would be useless to you as no one here can give you the engineers stamp that you will need for your permit.
good luck.
I would also like to welcome you to Breaktime. There's no harm in getting some suggestions before you start your project.
It is true that you'ld need a lot more information to answer that question: The amount of snow that may accumulate on the roof (geographical location and roof pitch). The span of the joists it will be supporting (Not just the square footage of the house). Whether it will be supporting a roof alone, or also a second story. Etc.
I can tell you that 2xs are out of the question for a 14' span. For a 14' span in a 2x4 wall, a 3 1/2 x 16" LVL (Laminated Veneer Lumber) beam could probably support a second story. The number of jack and king studs should also be considered. However, I also must warn you:
DO NOT INSTALL THIS BEAM WITHOUT FIRST CONSULTING A STRUCTURAL ENGINEER.
You may of course have already planned on this. There are many factors involved, and this is only a very rough estimate. I've only provided you with this information to get you started in the right direction.
First, make a sketch of the opening you plan to construct. If you know a good contractor that gives free estimates, he might give you some additional ideas. Then, make up a scaled drawing.
Second, contact your local planning commission. You'll need a permit to change the structure of your home. Your building inspector can also provide you with valuable information. Show him the scaled drawing. Ask him if can provide any information about applicable code. Then ask him if he has any recommendations for a structural engineer. By providing neatly organized information to the engineer, you'll make his job easier, and keep your expenses down.
Third, hire a structural engineer.
Fourth, after you get your plans approved, hire a contractor. Not only do you need to use the right materials for this job, to avoid an accident, proper procedure must be followed. Your building inspector may have some recommendations here to (although his recommendation alone will not be enough). Friends may also be able to recommend a contractor. It's always a good idea to make sure their licensed, bonded, and insured. Ask for references of previous jobs were they've done similar work. Ask for a price, and then insist on a lower price after providing the appropriate plans.
Click on this T for a link to finding a reputable contractor.
-T
PLease consult an engineer. Even after reading 23 posts, I am no more familiar w/ your scenario. You have not provided nearly enough info for even a rough guess.
One other "beam" for you to consider is the one below this wall. After creating the 14' opening, where do your point loads (the ends of the new beam) land relative to the beam below. If they are more than 18" or so from the support points of that beam, you should have that beam re-engineered.
Although the total load on the beam below will not change, a point load nearer to the center of a beam causes more deflection (flex, bounce, sag) in the beam.
Good luck
Sounds like a flinch beam might be in order. A flitch beam is a sandwich consisting of two 2x? with a steel flitch plate in the center of the "sandwich". The assembly is bolted together using carriage or hex bolts, washers and nuts. Generally, a statement can be made that for a given size - say 3.5"w x 11" T, a header (beam) can be built of
1) Dimensional lumber (cheapest & weakest)
2) LVL (more expensive and stronger)
3) Flitch beam (still more expensive and stronger still)
4) Steel I-beam (strongest and most expensive)
This is only a general statement, and your situation has many variables that you did not present. As far as LVLs there are other engineered wood products that serve similar purposes and have varying strengths.
If you want to get some more info please provide the following information: a basic drawing for each of the first and 2nd floors showing beam placement and sizing, joist type, direction and sizing, pier/post/column placement/sizing in the crawlspace/basement or if it is slab house a foundation plan. These plans need to show the location of bearing walls in relation to these support elements and the location of the proposed opening. All drawing need approximate dimensions (within a few inches). Also needed is a roof framing plan for stick built roof or a general truss layout if it is a truss roof.
Edited 11/21/2005 11:42 am ET by Mark_T
"1) Dimensional lumber (cheapest & weakest)2) LVL (more expensive and stronger)3) Flitch beam (still more expensive and stronger still)4) Steel I-beam (strongest and most expensive)"
Mark,
Having used and priced out steel vs. wood many a time, a steel I-beam is usually the cheapest, and most minimalist visually, option.
WSJ
but hardest to work with for the un-initiated
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Jon:
>> Having used and priced out steel vs. wood many a time, a steel I-beam is usually the cheapest, and most minimalist visually, option. <<
Let's not leave out important parts of what I said:
>>Generally, a statement can be made that for a given size - say 3.5"w x 11" T, a header (beam) can be built of
1) Dimensional lumber (cheapest & weakest)2) LVL (more expensive and stronger)3) Flitch beam (still more expensive and stronger still)4) Steel I-beam (strongest and most expensive) <<
So, you are right, when you go to price a double garage door beam a 20' x 11" I-beam will likely be cheaper than a 3 ply 16" tall lvl, but that is not really what I said, is it?
My guess would be that for this guy's situation a flitch beam would probably be the cheapest, most feasable way to go if it is a trussed roof with say, maybe a 24' wide house. Don't know that info though... An I-beam would most often be cheapest for the garage door. What would be your guess for the cheapest for header over a 9' opening; an I-beam? :-) In other words, based on your statement, we'd just throw an I-beam in every bearing wall beam/header situation...
An I-beam would most often be cheapest for the garage door NO, NO, NO Actually an LVL or something similar
". What would be your guess for the cheapest for header over a 9' opening; an I-beam? :-) In other words, based on your statement, we'd just throw an I-beam in every bearing wall beam/header situation.."
Mark,
................No, depends on the span and desired depth and load. 14' down the middle... I-beam,.......... 36" header..., DL
We were talking about a 14' span down the middle of a structure last I read.
WSJ
Edited 11/24/2005 12:00 am ET by WorkshopJon
I'm working on a 2 story addition and clear spanned 13' and the engineer had me use ( 3 ) 10 " lvl's and (2) 5/8" x 9" steel flitch plates ( I'm using 2x10 floor joist and wanted to keep it within the ceiling