I have a shed with two floor each about 800 square feet. I plan to use the wood working shop roughly half of the winter season. Since the floor print is small what would be the best and least expensive way of getting heat in the building? I was thinking of electric heat but realize this would cost a fortune even for sporatic use. Propane seems like an option but I am concerned with wood dust. Ideally the heat source would be contained and mounted in a safe manner. Warmth and safety are the concerns here. Wall mounted would be better than floor mounted.
Any suggestions??
Two towers
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something like this could be considered -
http://www.easyradiantworks.com/ezdoz.htm
kinda a cheezy website, but you get the idea -
Expensive to heat?
Depends on insulation.
Is gas available or are ya stuck with a tank?
Electric is more efficient technically since you don't have an exhaust issue.
Gas in most cases is cheaper. I like wall mounted units direct vent & you don't have the sawdust explosion issue.
http://hot-dawg.modine.com/?
this might be what you're lookin for.
Ok, don't laugh...
Find an old trailer RV of some size. Maybe 16 foot or larger. Rotted, falling apart, wrecked, it's all good.
Get the propane furnace out of it.
It is a forced air furnace. Works extremely well. Will very easily heat your shed. And runs on propane.
As a bonus, you get to tear the trailer down to the frame, and have a utility flatbed trailer. With a tiny bit of welding work this trailer can haul vehicles. Or a skid steer, along with a good job box on the front. Etc...
Luka,
Thats a great idea!
TT
It really is.Not too many people ever seem to see the merit of it. But then not too many people have been through a few winters in a small space with one of these, either. They really do, do a great job in a small space like you are talking about.You can mount it next to the outside wall. It doesn't need a huge vent. It gets it's own combustion air from outdoors. Completely sealed combustion chamber. They are normally about a foot by a foot by a foot and a half in size. Uses any standard thermostat.It would actually be worth buying a new one, if you couldn't find a free RV.
Take a look at this site. http://www.alsheating.com
Edited 10/12/2005 6:04 pm ET by fingers
Site ?
IMHO, 2 ton Heat pump.
If DIY and you dont want to bother with the EPA license, get a packaged unit off ebay for under $1000. Payback in 2-3 years if you heat it every day.
Some locales whose summer AC elec load is higher than in winter will give rebates on HP.
Edit PS: Jeff, if I see a free busted 2Ton I can fix, I'll get it for you, Sno CO. PUD still is under 6 cents kW-hr isnt it? HP beats propane or NG big time unless PUD rates went thru the roof lately. (got a free surplus 7.5T in a truck bed in the back, but thats waytime overkill)
Edited 10/12/2005 6:41 pm ET by junkhound
Hey Junkhound,I always thought that the holdup wouldn't be the liscense on DIY HVAC, it would be the numerous tools and lack of knowledge (i.e. superheat)?Is HVAC learnable as a DIYer?
Is HVAC learnable as a DIYer
Absolutely. BTW, for humor, if you want to get trashed, make that suggestion on hvac-talk.com.
Very quick DIY a/c summary.
1. For work not for hire, a 609 EPA license (open book web test from numberous sites, $25) will let you buy R22 at Grainger, Jonstone, etc. If you want to hire out, much more rigorous EPA test.
2. Equipment (mine is all old grandfathered stuff) will probably set you back about $400 minimum used and on ebay (a really resoureful scrounger can maybe do it for $200, a good vacuum pump is hard to come by cheap). Here is a short list: vacuum pump, gauges, recovery pump, recovery tanks (recyled propane tanks work painted correct colors), oxy acet setup, N2 bottle and gauge, silphos brazing rod, accurate to ounces 50# scale, thermocouple meter, thermometers and RH meter, electrical equipment.
3. novice errors can trash equipment quick - learn oil flow and slugging parameters or only use scroll compressors - always install new filter dryers - 500 micron vacuum for at least an hour (if not acheivable, bad pump, dirty oil, or a leak) -- charge per mfg directions -- line slope/size important, too big worse than too small - etc.
4. Ducting - personal rule of thumb is to install them as big as will fit.
Thanks Junkhound,It's the novice error part that scares me. If I can find a good book maybe I can avoid some of that. Was given one but it seems to be for classrooms with instructors explaining things.Maybe I can go ask the guys at hvac-talk if there's one they'd recommend to teach me everything I should know in a weekend?
Good luck and good heatpumping!
Go to your local library, if they do not have these ask for interlibrary loan.
1. Trane air conditioning manual - the one I got from the library was a 1970 edition, no idea if updated, but lots of practical mixed with theory and basics. Recently Trane took most the good stuff they had on their web site off >:(
2. Refrigeration and air conditioning, by ARI - personal copy is a 1979 version, there is definetly a post EPA version with all the rules as I've taken it out of the library. This is a Prentice Hall book, typically these are in the 651.5'6 section. ISBN # on my copy is 0-13-770164-0. This will teach you just about anything you want to know for homeowner applications.
A cheapos note: If you really want to be cheap and not have to get a license, etc, get a few old working freezers or fridges (usually free) and weld or screw together AS one wall of your shed - pre insulated, etc. The old freezer section faces outwards, the black wire fin coils to the inside of the shed. Rewire the thermostats to a heat pump thermo. The outside of the shed looks like $h1t - a line of old freezers with the doors off, but it works. Note: face the freezer side toward unliked neighbors, if you like all your neighbors, this option does not work. BTW, non-working freezers chassis laid flat make great raised garden beds when filled with dirt and a few pickholes in the back.
As to novice errors, my first heat pump was built from all scrap parts, parallel old car air conditioners driven by electric motors and fan belts, total cost about $30 circa 1972. Ran fine Sept until March, then 'somehow' an oil slug got to one of the old chrysler piston compressors, ran the rod right thru the piston head - that is how I learned to REALLY pay close attention to oil traps, line slope and max size, etc. <G>.
First professional 'HAVC' (aerospace calls it ECS, environmental control systems) job was balancing the cooling airflow to electronic racks (still vacuum tubes) on the B 707 jetliner. It was a real ego-busting event to have that rod go thru a piston at home.
Thanks for the book recs.The local library ordered a new book in last spring, was waiting my turn to look at it. First guy to check it out managed to completely ruin it and the library didn't replace it.
"Note: face the freezer side toward unliked neighbors, if you like all your neighbors, this option does not work. "
LMAO!!!!!! (great GREAT line!)DUM SPIRO SPERO: "While I breathe I hope"
1. For work not for hire, a 609 EPA license (open book web test from numberous sites, $25) will let you buy R22 at Grainger, Jonstone, etc. If you want to hire out, much more rigorous EPA test. epa 609 is motor vehicle only, you cannot buy r22 at grainger with it. I have both the 609 and the epa test. the 608 is type I, II, III and unviresal. I hold an unviresal.
Edited 10/15/2005 8:49 pm by brownbagg
What can I say, Art ?Except thank you very much !! That would be perfect.How is tonnage determined ?The big building, when finished will be approximately 17 by 23 or 25.
1 ton = 12,000 BTU hr, originally based on refrigeration needed to freeze 1 ton of ice.
Thank you Art.But what I meant was, how do you determine what tonnage is needed ?
But it's amazing how we've reached the point where we will go to war over anything that bothers us. I think we all have the right to walk away from things that bother us. If it happens in our homes, then we have the right to send the offending person away. Anywhere else, we take a walk. But when did it become okay to think that we have the right to fight with people who annoy us? And when did a little consideration of others become so unfashionable that we can't do it? A little bit of cooperation and consideration would make all of this a whole lot easier. Rules at the job are always appropriate. But we have become so used to imposing rules on how others chose to live their lives that we are ready to beat them for failing to adhere to them. -SHG
Why would you need to freeze a ton of ice? Aint it already frozen? ; > )Sorry couldn't resist.J.P.http://www.jpkfinefurniture.com