hi folks, i’m new to the board. i generally hang out on the woodnet woodworking board. i had a home improvement question and someone steered me here. as i have an old house (1912), this board looks quite interseting.
i am trying to post pics along with my questions. my deck needs to be rebuilt. while i have the skills to do the work, i was hoping to get advice on the best way to plan it lay it out, etc. these are five 4 foot sections laid next to each other on top of my porch roof with a rubber membrain underneath. i dont know if i should rebuild it the same way or just build one big deck covering the whole area. if one big one, would it be best to change the orientation? if i build new panels, should i over size the length then trim them to size? what would be the best way to start the either process so that the panels come out square? deck is about 8×20. thanks for the help, now, i hope the pics work.
Edited 4/14/2006 9:28 pm ET by rickyg
Replies
Yo R:
Keep trying with the pictures.
Is there leakage through the membrane? The decking should be riding on "sleepers" of 2x over the membrane, the sleepers oriented such that water can drain per gravity.
The trim/railing is another question.
thanks, i'll try again with the pics. any advice on how (i have a mac)? please define sleepers. i think it means that they are free floating sections. is that correct? my deck has five panels (sleepers?) lying side by side. there is no leakage through the membrane of which i am aware. the joists run parallel to the deck. i dont know if the orientation hinders the water from raining down to the gutters. i dont know if there's a slight pitch. the water does stand for a while after a rain. therfore, either there is no pitch or the joist orientation prevents the flow. the joists have rbbure wrapped around them, stapled on the side, underneath so rubber contacts rubber, up the other side. however, the ends are not covered and are in constant contact with the standing water.i do not know what bitumen is, as per the second reply.
thanks again.
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1. Your existing exposed deck joist seem to be perpendicular to the suspected slope of the roof. If they are in constant contact with the roof, especially with a rubber wrapped membrane (which behaves like a gasket) they prevent water from shedding off the roof.2. Modified bitumen- Rolled roofing membrane with polymer modified asphalt and either polyester or fiberglass reinforcement. 3. I have a Mac also. Posting pics is easy. a. Click "Attach Files" which is on the "Post Page" next to "Spell Check." b. In the window that appears, click on "Choose File." c. Another drop down window will appear. Find the pic you would like to post. It should be pretty self-evident how to do this. Click on chosen file/ pic. Then click on the "Choose" button. d. This will bring you back to the original dropdown window Step #2. Click on "Upload." e. Proceed to Step #3 or return to step #1, as appropriate. f. Then press "Done."4. Sleepers are what the deck structure is attached to. They serve to protect the material below by limiting contact, provide air and water flow, and level the deck so it does not follow the slope of the roof below. They can be of many materials and designs. "Typical" sleepers are 1x or 2x material which run perpendicular to the joist structure below. In such a situation they would then prevent water from shedding off the roof.5. If the existing deck joists are wrapped in rubber yet open ay the ends and not sealed at the sides (therefore open to water) they will rot, plain and simple. Leave the new PT deck joists uncovered so they can dry out and "breath."6. Creating a deck which is semi-removable, as you describe, will entail making 2 structures which overlap at 90 degrees.7. Buying or skimming a deck building book available at one of the big boxes will help you visualize what I am referring to.Hope this helps,FrankieThere he goes—one of God's own prototypes—a high powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live and too rare to die.—Hunter S. Thompson
from Fear And Loathing In Las Vegas
Edited 4/15/2006 10:42 am ET by Frankie
frank,
thanks for the response. my problem with the pics was that the upload did not take place when i clicked the upload button in step 2. maybe its a setting problem. what you are saying is that i do not have, but need sleepers.
if the pitch of the deck slopes down from the house, then the sleepers should be perpendicular to the house so that they go the short (8') way so the water can drain. correct? then the joists run the long way as the do now. the deck might not be pitched though. if not, what will keep the sleepers from rotting? thnks again for te help.
i will go check out some books, as well.rick
No, no, no.The sleepers must go perpendicular to the joists BELOW. Then the deck joists are perpendicular to the sleepers.Yes, yes, yes - If you use continuous sleepers you will be blocking the water, like you are currently doing.The sleepers can be staggered or be "panels" located above each joist BELOW.Deck doesn't need to be sloped as there are spaces between each strip of decking fr the water to fall/ flow through.The pics in the book will explain it clearly.BTW - when trying to attach pic in your posts, it does take some time for it to happen. Try it again, for kicks and giggles.FrankieThere he goes—one of God's own prototypes—a high powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live and too rare to die.—Hunter S. Thompson
from Fear And Loathing In Las Vegas
frank, i think we are referring to different things by using the term joists. i am probably misusing the term. by joists, i am referring to the bottom 2x4's of the deck panels, not the structural members of the deck itself. btw, did the links to my pics work at least? i attched them 3 different ways. i think the 3rd one (the url) worked when i tried it.
so, i want sleepers running the same way as the water flows, so as not to creat a dam effect, then i want my panels with the "joists" of my panels running perpendicular to the sleepers, then obviously the deck boards. are we speaking the same language now? tried to up load again. waiting seemed to helprick
Rick
Your picture is to big for dial up folks, gotta make it smaller, this one's on the house.
Looks like your joist are rotted!
Doug
What keeps the decking/sleeper assembly from working its way downhill on the sloped membrane? Does it need to be fastened to the house or to the structure below the membrane?
I roll my wear protection strip into a dab of caulk every 16-20", then I do a dap of same to set sleeepers into. Make sure the caulk is compatable with the EPDM rubber or whatever membrane you are using. It wouldn't be any fun to find out that your caulkof choice dissolves the roofing material in a month.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
R:
The key thing is that the subdeck (covered in membrane) must be sloped to some degree. In addition the sleepers musn't block said drainage. Drainage is the thing. If your membrane is sound, then you can just rest the acq sleepers right on it (allowing drainage of course) and fasten decking to the sleepers. Make sure your fasteners don't penetrate the membrane.
The decking will run perpendicular to the sleepers.
I don't think this project is covered in typical dink/DIY books, but there was a terrific article in FHB in the past coupla years. Maybe somebody could refer that issue, or you could do a search. The author does an EXTREMELY callback-proof job. Very refined. I recommend you find this article.
ooooooooo,
pig;
sooie!
We do something similar regularly.
We first install a soft bitumen sheet and sheet of rolled roofing - each 16" x 16". This softens the contact to the existing rubber roofing.
Then we use PT plywood cut 12"x 12".
On top of that we install a PT 2x12x12. Your joist or posts sit on this - depending what kind fo deck design you use.
Shims and PL for PT keep the wood assembly stable.
Frankie
There he goes—one of God's own prototypes—a high powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live and too rare to die.
—Hunter S. Thompson
from Fear And Loathing In Las Vegas
Hey Man!
You will undoubetibly enjoy some of the old farts that hang out here.
Please fill out your profile.
Bitchen' lookin' banister bro.
TRIGGER
thanks doug. didn't know how to reduce the pic size. i barely got it posted!
rhys, if there is a slope, it's very slight. i haven't had the sleepers move/shift in the 7 years i'm there.
trigger, thanks. i will fill in my profile. i was focused on getting some info b/c i had the long weekend to get to work.
as can be seen from the pic, the joists/sleepers run the length of the deck. assuming there is a slight pitch, they are blocking/damming the water from flowing down hill. i think they should be turned the other way which would change the orientation of the decking. any advice out there about the best way to do this??? right now there are 5 deck panels laid side by side. though i dont think orienting panels ened to end would be the best or most asctetic way to go. thanks again
rick
Edited 4/19/2006 2:26 pm ET by rickyg
Hey, we ventilate the farts frequently;)
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
You can run trhe sleepers either way, but if laid across drainage, you have to dadop sections out or shim them up so water can pass under. I use extra strips of EPDM for wear surface under sleepers.
I dislike doing it in pallet sections cuase it looks bad and they can float around more creating more wear on the membrane.
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!