Last summer, we bought a home in a mountainous area of NE PA and have a larger than normal crawl space with no basement. The inspector noted the improper installation of the insulation inside the floor joist, especially since most of it has deteriorated. I did not ask the owner to redo it for a lot of reasons that I can’t get into in this discussion. The insulation has been put in facing the wrong way. I would replace it myself, but I don’t do “small spaces” any more, and I react terribly to insluation.
So the question is: when retrofitting insulation when the paper should have been facing the floor, as opposed to the ground, how does it get installed? Is there another product that doesn’t require stapling? How does this get done correctly?
“The nearest thing to eternal life we will ever see on this earth is a governmental program” -Ronald Reagan
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"So the question is: when retrofitting insulation when the paper should have been facing the floor, as opposed to the ground,"
Simple, don't put insulation between the joist.
Use the advanced search for conditioned crawlspace.
Thanks. Found a lot of threads...many of which you contributed to.
We have the rigid ins. on the foundation walls, vapor barrier on the ground and a de-humidifier running. That's all good news.
If I don't insulate the floor, heat rises and cold drops....are you saying it won't affect temperature inside? "The nearest thing to eternal life we will ever see on this earth is a governmental program" -Ronald Reagan
advanced search for conditioned crawlspace
Well, that does appear to be the building science recommendation for PA--which I would not have guessed.
Of course the real question, which we saw in a different thread, is "what kind of insulation is it?" If it's paper-faced FG, it might be just as simple to leave it there, and install proper foundation insualtion instead. That skips the whole "recacting badly to insulation" thing mentioned by OP.
The question that's really hard to answer at this extreme is how difficult it will be to get some conditioned air into the c/s, too.
That would be a real pin with my house, for instance. Not least of which for not having a perimeter beam-type of foundation to start with <g>.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
no real chnce to vent at this time. All other recommendations are in place as I noted on earlier post."The nearest thing to eternal life we will ever see on this earth is a governmental program" -Ronald Reagan
no real chnce to vent at this time
To be precice, the Building Science (buildingscience.com) recommendation for PA is to not vent the c/s to the outside. Instead, it is insulated, and a small quantity of conditioned air (either heated or cooled) is introduced into the space to circulate any moisture out of the area.
This does several things. In effect, the insulatingthe foundation is getting some "ground contact" with the more-stable soil temperature under your house. That reduces any temperature differentials right at your floor. Which decreases any worry about water vapor condensing on to either your insulation (not good for R value) or your framing (very not good, ever). Now, that's an "ideal," too.
Now, one problem with insulating the floors of c/s houses, is that it does not do much good unless the rim joist & mudsill spaces have been adequately insulated, as well (drafts under the base boards are jsut annoying).
If you must insulate the floor (for whatever reason), the way you install batts in joist bays when you dont have the paper face to staple, is to use wires sprung between the joists about 15" O.C. If you can find a way, don't use FG, it's jsut not that helpful.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
Thanks for that feedback. In fact, that is what I intend to do....take out the current MESS and seal any leaks on top of the foundation. Comes as a surprise to me, but that's why I post these things! Thanks.
UTW"The nearest thing to eternal life we will ever see on this earth is a governmental program" -Ronald Reagan
Insulating a floor over a crawlspace is tricky. If the crawl is fairly open and well-ventillated then you'd want to treat the floor just like a wall, with the vapor barrier facing upward. However, with standard fiberglass insulation this leaves the open fiberglass facing downward, and fiberglass without an infiltration barrier (not necessarily a vapor barrier) is useless.So you have basically four options:
1) Lousy insulation (probably not a big deal in some climates).
2) Install FG, VB up, and cover the bottom with some sort of infiltration barrier such as housewrap.
3) Install something other than standard FG bats
4) Convert to an insulated crawl, with the insulation around the walls. This requires taking significant steps to control humidity in the crawl.
If ignorance is bliss why aren't more people
happy?