I’m in the market for a laptop computer for work for use as a general contracting management tool as well as the normal computer activities: email, picture tweaking, etc.
What operating sytems? What software? What should I avoid?
How do I go about using the internet for this?
Our Skytrak is sold. Frank sold it for 47k cash.
Replies
There's some pretty good deals in the dell flyers these days.
I think you can get a decent laptop for $1000.
Glad to see the skytrak is sold.
Thanks for that suggestion Wivell. I've been advised to check into Dell from many happy family members and I've already checked their site. That's when I realized I'm over my head and decided to check with Taunton University.
blueOur Skytrak is sold. Frank sold it for 47k cash.
If you are not very "techy" with computers, then get one with a service contract where you get a new replacement FED-EX'ed in 24 hrs.... or less if you bring it in to an actual brick n mortar store/service location.
Get a setup for backing up your system with a touch of a button to an external drive. Then lock that drive up somewhere safe and dry and fireproof.
Is it HP that advertises the sturdy laptops that can get dropped and have cofee spilled on them? I saw the TV commercial the other night but I forget whose brand.
If you need internet access for email and such on-the-go then get a wireless WiFi internet account. Works like a cell phone does.
More computer memory is better than having the latest fastest CPU chip. Latest and fastest cost tons more too.
Get the larger (or largest) harddrive.
Great suggestions Patchdog.
Followup question regarding this statement : "If you need internet access for email and such on-the-go then get a wireless WiFi internet account. " How do I get a wireless Wifi internet account?
So far, My check list looks like this:
1) Service contract must include a new replacement Fedex in 24 hrs.
2)Setup must include an external one touch backup system.
Thank you.
blueOur Skytrak is sold. Frank sold it for 47k cash.
If I were you, I stick with a non-Apple laptop. Just my personal preference for avoiding any Apple nuances even if it has windoze on it. Without it being around for a long time, there *may* be some software that you want that will not work on the Apple with Windoze. Apples are usually much more money too.
*** PLEASE, I AM NOT INTERESTED IN AN APPLE VERSUS PC DEBATE ***
*** SO ALL APPLE PEOPLE, DO NOT EVEN TRY TO ENGAGE ME IN DEBATE ***
For wireless laptop on the go internet access, try this
http://solutions.vzwshop.com/bba/
My SIL uses it and travels coast to coast with no problems. You'll have to verify that if you're in a very rural area where you generally roam for home and work that there is coverage. But most areas have coverage if there is cell phone coverage too.
As someone who owns and uses four Apple computers at the moment (including a laptop) I'd tend to agree with Patch. Know what software you want to use before making your purchase as many niche apps are PC only.The ability to run PC apps on an Intel Mac is still in its infancy and there are bugs to work out. There is no value in you being an early adopter.Biggest decision I would make if I were you is durability. If you are really rough and use your laptop mostly in the field, get a ruggedized laptop like a Panasonic toughbook. Big bucks but likely worth the extra expense.If you are not terribly rough on them, by a cheap laptop and think of it as disposable, replacing it every 18 months or so.Or wait until January. I've gt a client releasing a tablet PC that runs full XP, mounts on a detachable RAM mount inside the vehicle, contains a built in camera, bluetooth, wireless, GPS and cellular connectivity, is rugged as hell and should cost under $2000.
I'm not sure if I'm sold on the rugged laptops. They *are* great, but the cost is so much and computers these days are so out of date so fast that I'm not sure if you end up getting your money's worth out of those. For the price of most rugged laptops, you could replace a not-rugged one 3 or 4 times.I'd say get a regular laptop, then a rugged carrying case.
Yep. That's why I suggested buying a cheaper, non-ruggedized laptop and consider it expendable. I conducted a survey for my client a few months back and the results (which I can not post) seemed to indicate that unless the task at hand required excessive moisture, temperature or vibration resistance (measured by IP or NEMA rating) the high cost of a ruggedized laptop was hard to justify.What we've developed is a ruggedized tablet with a 7 or 8.4 inch screen meant for both harsh environment and true mobile use. Not sure if there's a market in the construction trades as the screen might be too small if you're needing to read prints. My research though indicates big interest in the Field Services markets like that of utility companies and government services such as building inspectors.At a retail cost of around $2000-$2500 it might have some limited appeal to those in the trades that require more than a PDA and less than a ruggedized full laptop.Sounds like Blue decided on an Apple MacBook. I love my 17" and wouldn't trade it for all the world.
I think I fall more into the category of going for a more expendable, cheaper laptop. It might not have every new gadget, or the biggest screen, but for jobsite use, spreadsheets, simple CAD, a basic laptop will do.
I got my wife an Acer 15" laptop a few months ago for school. Decent intel chip, 512 ram, CD burner, and thin and light. $400, including a printer/scanner/copier, brand new. She's been using it for statistics, GIS mapping, spreadsheets, and web stuff, and it works fine. If we had to replace it in a year or so, I wouldn't worry about it much- MS will have a new operating system out by then anyway.zak
"When we build, let us think that we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone." --John Ruskin
"so it goes"
I am choosing the MacPro Pino. I've decided to get the 17" because most of the time it will be sitting on my coffee table where I can gaze out over Lake Huron when I get bored with my "work".
Now I'm wondering where I can get my best deal? Do I have to go direct to Apple or are there some discounters out there?
blueOur Skytrak is sold. Frank sold it for 47k cash. I'm now officially retired as a carpenter. I've offered to fill in for Frank in emergencies, but when he calls, I'll probably say no LOL!
Blue - I usually buy my computers from one of the online/mail order houses like CDW, MacZone or MacMall. I've bought from them all over the years and have been very pleased. You can usually get a few add-ons for free like a printer, extra RAM, etc which aren't always offered if you buy through the Apple Store online or in person. These guys are running the best deal I could find at the moment.http://www.macmall.com/I'd check out an Apple Store if there is one near you, but wouldn't necessarily buy from them. You've got stores in Grand Rapids, Novi and Troy. This way you can get a hands on feel before you buy.The one decision I would suggest you give thought to is whether or not to order you MacBook with a glossy screen or not. I bought my 17" just before the newest models with glossy screen options came out, so I can't really offer any advice.I'm an avid Mac user and have been for years. Feel free to post if you've got any questions.
17-inch glossy widescreen LCD
1680 x 1050 resolution
2.33GHz Intel Core 2 Duo Processor
2GB DDR2 SDRAM
160GB SATA hard drive
8x double-layer SuperDrive
ATI Mobility Radeon X1600
256MB GDDR3 video memory
Built-in iSight video camera
Built-in Airport Extreme
Built-in Bluetooth 2.0+EDR
Gigabit Ethernet
Optical and Analog audio in/out
DVI or VGA video output
Built-in Dual Link DVI Support
ExpressCard/34 expansion slot
3 USB 2.0, 1 Firewire 400 Port, and 1 Firewire 800 Port
Includes infrared remote with Front Row
Pino, these are the options on the glossy screened MacPRo. They are currently going for $2644.
Do you see anything I should add/delete/change?
blueOur Skytrak is sold. Frank sold it for 47k cash. I'm now officially retired as a carpenter. I've offered to fill in for Frank in emergencies, but when he calls, I'll probably say no LOL!
Have you considered a docking station?
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
Jon, what is a docking station? I have one for my old camera but I don't know what that means for a laptop.
blueOur Skytrak is sold. Frank sold it for 47k cash. I'm now officially retired as a carpenter. I've offered to fill in for Frank in emergencies, but when he calls, I'll probably say no LOL!
Hey Blue, Check out MacMall...I've gotten my last three macs from them, and they usually have the best package deals.I just got a little macbook with Boot Camp and Windows XP home edition. Boot Camp is supposed to be faster than Parallels, but you do have to change between startup discs.My son runs AutoCAD on the windows side, I run VectorWorks and SketchUp on the mac side...great for presentationsCheck out the airport base stations for wireless stuff.Welcome to the sunny side<G>
"I am the master of low expectations." Georgie Boy, aboard Air Force One, June 4, 2003
Thanks Holly.
Pino also sent me to Macmall and the deals look good there.
Thanks for the headsup.
blueOur Skytrak is sold. Frank sold it for 47k cash. I'm now officially retired as a carpenter. I've offered to fill in for Frank in emergencies, but when he calls, I'll probably say no LOL!
MacMall does *not* have a good track record:http://www.macintouch.com/readerreports/consumerissues/topic2979.html
Airport is not necisarily the best wireless solution. It looks pretty, at the expense of range and throughput. Look at the N based products, they will have better range even for G based wireless like the Mac.Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
Hi Blue,A docking station allows your notebook to plug in at your desk, sort of a terminal for all your ethernet, USB and power connections, so they can remain plugged into your docking station instead of the laptop itself. Not sure if that's something that's truly that useful for you. If you were carting your laptop between your home office and another office (where you had another docking station), it might be practical. http://www.bookendzdocks.com/I think someone above mentioned that the MacBook Pros get a little hot, so a little caution before you actually use them as a 'lap top' device. The heat issue is much better than the older mac laptops, though.Try the glossy screen out before you settle on it, if you haven't already. I thought about it for my last laptop and didn't get it after I saw a friend's laptop that did have it. It was too reflective for me.Definitely get the airport wireless so you can really roam around the house. Wireless access really makes the laptop a truly portable computer.Have fun and keep us posted.Steve
Okay, I see what a docking station is. I'm going to hold off on that until I fully understand what/how I'm going to use the laptop.
Thanks for the info on the glossy. I think I'll pass, unless I visit an apple store and check it out firsthand.
blueOur Skytrak is sold. Frank sold it for 47k cash. I'm now officially retired as a carpenter. I've offered to fill in for Frank in emergencies, but when he calls, I'll probably say no LOL!
Blue,FatRoman gave a pretty good description. I'll tell you the reason I mention it.Up until about one year ago, I was working on a laptop with 15" screen just sitting on a desk. Then I upgraded to a desktop with my laptop as a backup. I have also moved up to a dual monitor set up, which I highly recommend but that's for another thread. I am much more productive with a conventional keyboard, mouse, and real screen (or two!).I bought a tablet computer (a notebook with a screen that you can write on) a few weeks ago and my plan, although it's not enacted fully yet, is to use my tablet as my main & only computer. I can take it out into the field and run any application I have and access all my data. When in the office, I will set my tablet on the docking station which will in effect hook it up to my existing monitor/keyboard/mouse/external hard drive set up.I don't know if you will have an office at the school or if you will need to be mobile but I can see a docking station (or two) being really great for you. Let's say you have your home office where you spend 10 hours a week. You can have your keyboard and monitor and printer set up and work as needed. Then you work at the school the next day. All you have to do is lift your notebook off of the docking station and put it in it's bag. Go to your office at the school and set it on that docking station. You could duplicate your setup exactly but still retain the ability to walk away from your desk with your portable computer at a moments notice. My tablet has a 12.1" screen which, albeit small, makes it very easy to fit in a pocket in my briefcase. I can still have my big monitors for estimating and drafting but I'm traveling light in the field.Just my $.02
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
Jon, I will have an office at that school. We've already singled out the principle's office as our war room. I'll have to see how I use the laptop before I invest in dual docks.
Thanks for the explanation.
blue
Our Skytrak is sold. Frank sold it for 47k cash. I'm now officially retired as a carpenter. I've offered to fill in for Frank in emergencies, but when he calls, I'll probably say no LOL!
"Do you see anything I should add/delete/change?"Yes. you need to change the quantity ordered to two. I'll email you my address later :) The only thing you might want to consider is an external backup drive. Don't tell yourself you'll get to it later 'cause you won't. Start the habit now with a fresh machine. I back up daily but weakly should work for most users. There are plenty of low cost USB, firewire and thumb drives out there depending on your capacity needs.Other than that, welcome to the wonderful world of Macs. Now, if I could only get you to convert to the liberal side, my mission here in the Tavern would be complete.Let me know if you've got any questions.
sounds awful pricy to play freecell on 7-1/2 hours a day....
:)
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I see one thing nobody has mentioned.You can get lo jack for your laptop and if it gets stolen or lossed they guarantee finding it or will pay for new one.
ANDYSZ2WHY DO I HAVE TO EXPLAIN TO FRIENDS AND FAMILY THAT BEING A SOLE PROPRIETOR IS A REAL JOB?
REMODELER/PUNCHOUT SPECIALIST
Hey Pino,Being the Mac guru that you are...Do you (or anyone else) know of a GPS add on for a MacBook?
I've looked at the Garmin GPS18 - USB, but it would have to run on the Windows side. TFB (Bill)
Guru? I think that title is better reserved for Jerald Hayes or Cloud. I'm more a long time user and fanatic.Anyhow, I've no personal experience with GPS on the Mac but i did contact a friend that has playing with it on his new MacBook Pro. He runs a Magellan ColorTrak with the MacGPS Pro software. The links below were forwarded on by him and may help. Good luck.http://www.usglobalsat.com/p-41-bt-328-mac.aspx
http://www.usglobalsat.com/p-62-bu-353-gps-sirf-iii.aspx
http://www.macgpspro.com/html/newhtml/macgpspro/workswith.html
Thanks for the info!TFB (Bill)
I'm in the market for a refurbished Mac laptop. Don't need the pro version. Apple's website has pretty much out-of-stock on the units I have been considering. Is there another site you might reccommend?
Also, what's the difference between a combo drive, and a super drive?
thanks for you help.Isn't that interesting?I knew you would.I hope you're all taking notes, because there's going to be a short quiz next period... Tom Lehrer
A combo drive will read and write CDs and play DVDs, while a superdrive does that plus burns DVDs.I've got a 2004 12" G4 Powerbook that I love, but I wish I would have sprung for the superdrive.
TN is right about the drives. As for a laptop, try eBay. Many current model laptops are available and many of those have Apple warranties that still apply. Make sure the one you consider is covered by $2000 of PayPal protection and you're safe.I'm hunting for a used MacBook Pro for the family right now.
Hi Blue,I've been using macs since 1985. I use windows too, but only when I have to. It sounds to me like macs are tailor made for you. Use it, forget about the computer, just do the stuff you want to do. Not much to maintain. They stay out of your way. That said, it is a computer, and you will have to learn a thing or two if you want to get the most out of it. I really suggest you get yourself to an apple store if you have one near you and let them show you a few things.You've been getting some incorrect information about a few things. Allow me to clarify a few things.There are no known viruses for any Mac running OSX. Period. That doesn't mean there won't be, but OSX is more than five years old, and there are no viruses in the wild for it. There has been exactly one trojan horse, which is not a virus. For you to get it you would have had to download an application from a p orn site, and install it, first giving your password to do so. There have been some "proof-of-concept" things (generated by the people that sell security software, mostly) that could exploit security holes, but they have always been patched against really quickly, and have not been sucessfully exploited in the wild.I've been running without any anti-virus software for 5 years. No problems. You can buy AV software for the Mac, but as of now it does nothing of use for you. That doesn't mean that there won't be a need for it in the future, but for now, keep the firewalll turned on, don't download and install programs from p orn sites, and you'll be fine. There are some settings that you can mess with for even greater security, and any one of Mac afficianodos would be able to help you with that.Intel chip macs are head and shoulders better than the older PowerPC macs. Whoever told you otherwise is just plain wrong. They are not more prone to viruses. It's the operating system and also the browser that determines your vulnerability. They are faster and use industry standard parts like most every other PC on the planet. That's why they can run Windows. They are for all intents and purposes the same machine as a PC. Same hard drives, same RAM, same processors, same graphics cards.They only difference is that Macs can run Mac OSX too. No other PC can run an off-the-shelf copy of Mac OSX. Any new Mac can run Windows and therefore any windows programs fully natively, with no incompatabilities.If you need to run a PC-only program all you need is a full-retail version of windows to install on the computer (a pricey piece of software). After that you can decide HOW you want to run windows on your Mac. There are several ways:1) Hold down one key when you start the computer and select for the machine to boot up in and run natively and at full speed in either Mac OSX or in Windows (one or the other...not at the same time). You are not running in emulation. A mac booted natively into windows is indestinguishable from a PC running windows, except that it's faster, as recently reported in one of the PC mags, I forget which one.2) You can start the computer in OSX and then run windows within a Virtual Machine (Parallels or VMWare). Then you have both operating systems running at once. Windows will be running at about 85-90 percent of native speed using this method. You can cut copy and paste between the two. There are some incompatabilities with this method of running windows, but not many. I think there were problems with some USB devices or some such thing.3) There is a program that will allow you to run some windows programs right within Mac OSX, no copy of windows required, and the program will look and act like a mac program for the most part. This is an offshoot of the WINE thing on PC's. It only works for select programs, not all.As to cost, for most of the macs that are sold today, particularly the more expensive models, if you configure a Dell or HP or other major brand PC with the same specifications (hard drive, ram, video card, etc.) The mac will be within a hundred dollars and sometimes cheaper. Apple doesn't do cheap computers. But the computers they sell are comparably priced to PC's with the same specs.It's agonizing watching all the misinformation flying around. There are valid reasons to get a PC:1) If you want a cheap computer, you'll have to go PC. 2) If you are running on a business network where they refuse to support macs, than you need a PC. But Macs can be fully integrated into a PC business network if the IT department chooses to do so. 3) well, I can't think of any #3. It used to be that if you had a particular piece of PC software that you absolutely had to run, than you needed a PC. That is absolutely not true anymore.In the end, a Mac is just a good PC that can also be a Mac. A PC will never be anything but a PC.Good luck on your decision.Steve
Thanks Steve!Your advice comes months after my original post, but it's some good info just the same. I recently walked through a Apple store and fell in love with a giant monitor. It was huge! I finally could see everything! After digesting this thread last winter, I decided to take MIke's advice: buy a cheap throwaway pc until Vista came out. I bought a close out Toshiba a week before vista was launched for 399! It has worked great for me and I've decided that I'll never need another desktop. I am going to get a mac though and your advice was quite timely. The one key question will be: can it run Chief Architect which requires Windows. I think you answered that and I'll be sure to verify your info before I buy. Thanks again.jim FKA Blue (eyeddevil)
Hi Jim,Now that you mention it I realize that the thread is over a year old! I only noticed it because it popped up in the "with unread msgs" list. I'm glad your purchase is working out for you. I've nothing against Windows these days. It was pretty awful for many years, but is usable now. If you do decide on a Mac eventually I'm sure you'll like the hardware, even if you wind up running Windows on it.All the best to you,Steve
Apple computers are not any more money and when comparably equipped are actually less money. Also there are not any viruses yet for the Mac OS. My $.02
I can't BELIEVE YOU WOULD BE SO STUPID TOO .........
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I can't read purple...
:)
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You should look really hard at the Apple laptops. They are made very solid and come with great software.
Edited 11/2/2006 8:52 am ET by T White
I'll second the Apple Mac recommendation. They really are solid computers and (surprisingly) really on par price-wise. I'm using a MacBook right now.In the past, the Macs weren't recommended as much due to the fact that a lot of niche-industry software was written just for Windows. However, you can install Windows on the new Macs now if you want to.All that said, as another mentioned, lugging around laptops can be a bit of a pain. Take a look at the Palm handhelds as well. YOu might find that they fit the needs without the heft.
Interesting Darrel. I was going to reject TWhites suggestion because I didn't want to learn another operating system.
I'm going to Apple.com right now to check them out.
blueOur Skytrak is sold. Frank sold it for 47k cash.
I just checked the apple site. I'm impressed.
I might have to visit an apple store.
blueOur Skytrak is sold. Frank sold it for 47k cash.
Look into Gateway also. I don't have a laptop, but I have a Gateway desktop, and I've been real happy with their product and support.
The college where I attend night class uses only Gateway - the tried Dell one year, but were very disappointed with the support, so went back to Gateway."...never charged nothing for his preaching, and it was worth it, too" - Mark Twain
Gateway - good desktops, lousy laptopsBlue,I am very haPPY WITH MY hp DESKTOP IN THE 8000 Series i got last sumer. It is wide screen and has a numberic pad on the keyboard. The keys are neaarly big enough to fit my fingers tho I do hit the caps lock too often. It is a little heavier than most, but I don't go backpacking with it. Levono, IBM and Toshiba have some haevvy duty ones for rough duty, but I can't say personally how they doSystem - windows XP Pro
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I don't think it's your fingers, something in the keyboard configuration, I also hit the caps lock often on this one, and hardly ever on my desktop keyboard at home.
I have the same model as you I believe.
One other point, if you're going to be comparing prices, the model numbers at Circuit City, Bestbuy etc. are all different for the same computer, you need to look at the specs, I was able to argue with Circuit City to match Office Depot's pricing because the computer spec'd out the same, only difference was the model number which the guy admitted they did on purpose to avoid price matching....
I think I can stand the heavier units. I don't plan on traveling too much with it onsite. I just don't want to base all my business in a desktop. I have fat fingers too!
Added to checklist:
wide screenOur Skytrak is sold. Frank sold it for 47k cash.
For the record, if you can use Windows, you can use OSX. (And vice versa for that matter). The similiarities are more than the differences these days. For that matter, you might want to consider a linux machine.The OS choice is really secondary to any specific software you may have to run. If you mainly just run office software (spreadsheet, word processor, email, etc) than pretty much any OS will do the job for you.Again, though, the Macs are nice because you can use pretty much whichever OS you want to.Be careful of the Apple stores, though. It's like walking into a tool shop. Once you start touching them all, you want to buy them all. ;o)
with what is going on in the software world right now, I would be staying with MS operating systems
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Meaning what?
MS,Norvel, Linux, Red hat, Support...changes in the wind
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I'm still not sure what you are getting at...I'd say Linux, Windows and OSX are going to be around for quite some time...
someone drops it then spills coffee on it and it is OK.>>>>What if you don't drink coffee and get gittery enough to drop it?
I think I'd get an Mac next time but you know me...I'm trying hard to work only seconds from my house...where my desk top is :)Creation arises, is sustained for awhile, and then things change. That’s the dance.
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
http://www.ramdass.com
Now I worry that you'll be so gittery that the desktop will fall to the floor! Run a few Piffin screws thru the chassis into the desk especially before surfing *those* kind of websites. ;-)
Sure they will, but in what form and who will be supporting them..Fine for techies, but most of us don't want to play games with stepping outside in the rain. A good deal of the software I use has no versions for anything other than MS and vacilating conditions for those competitors make it less likely they will ever make it for them
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Just to make a small point. Apple Computer's market capitalization is now larger than Dell's.I think Apple will be around for quite awhile.
So, do you only drive Fords and shop at Wal-Mart?The markets for all the OSes are rather huge. Again, IF you have OS-centric niche software then, yes, ya gotta use that OS.I still vote for Apple, mainly because they can run all of those OSes. Makes it easy to switch if/when you want/need to.Alternatively, you can install Windows and Linux on top of OSX. You can then run software from any of the three OSes all at the same time if you want to.
If you are leaning toward the Mac, get the MacBook, not the MacBook Pro. It's smaller, easier to tote around and should have everything you need. If you were building software, or using the laptop as a multimedia machine to play dvds, the MB Pro would be the better bet.
I think Dell is perfectly fine. I've purchased 2 of their reconditioned laptops and been quite happy with them. In fact I do all of my software development on one of them.
If you need service, Apple does have their 'Genius Bar' in stores. The assistance is pretty good, but you'll probably have to make an appointment ahead of time, and even then from my experience, you are not guaranteed to be seen on time. I can't speak to Dell's support as I've never used it. I wind up troubleshooting any issues on my own, anyway.
In terms of what to look for, if you are just using this to browse the web, change a few photos, and prepare some client documents, contracts, etc. you should be fine with a standard laptop. No need to have the fastest one that was just introduced. As someone else said, you are better off getting the biggest hard drive you can; though if you are going to keep a backup drive at home you can make this the big drive (say 200 gigabytes) and get a smaller 60 gigabyte drive for the laptop. Photos and movies take up space, so don't go for something that's only a 20 gigabyte drive.
More RAM is better than a faster processing chip. This allows you to run more programs at the same time. 256 RAM is not really sufficient. I'd go for at least 512. You can always get more and put the chip in yourself, and that's always much cheaper than having Apple or Dell do it for you.
Two places to look at are:
Dell's outlet: http://www.dell.com/content/products/category.aspx/notebooks?c=us&cs=22&l=en&s=dfh&~ck=mn
Ecost: (They carry Apple, HP, and a number of others, usually at the best rate around)
http://www.ecost.com/ecost/ecsplash/default_new.asp
Hope that helps.
I haven't considered Apple because I'm afraid of creating a learning curve (new operating system) and having to work through the nuances that will occur.
blueOur Skytrak is sold. Frank sold it for 47k cash.
Speaking as a 19-yr PC user, Macs are intuitively simple. The learning curve is nil compared to that on a PC. I'm still learning about my Dell, which is my third in over ten years (I treat them hard); I learned to navigate on my kid's Mac in less than 15-minutes!Gary W
gwwoodworking.com
Okay.
Thanks everyone. Everyone's suggestions/experiences have been truly helpful. I don't have a lot of time so I've made my decision. Good or bad, I'm buying and Apple. Here's my first choice: http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/6964001/wo/CLaH8UpmtpGR3afaGsHjiI3xvpk/3.?p=0
Go ahead, talk me out of it.
blueOur Skytrak is sold. Frank sold it for 47k cash.
Blue,
I can't tell by your link which MacBook you chose, because when I click on the link I get a "Sorry Your session has timed out" message. Maybe you could give us the model number and I'll ask my IT specialist son how you might want to build it.
I asked him which he might consider as a jobsite laptop, and he said you should look into the Panasonic Toughbook, here: http://www.toughbooksales.com/?cpao=111&cpca=tbs&cpag=gk&kw=toshibatoughbook&gclid=CNqqyJv4qIgCFUM1GAodCRsupg. It looks like a cool tool.Gary W
gwwoodworking.com
I'm thinking about the MacBook pro with a 15" monitor.
http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/wo/0.RSLID?mco=202675AF&nclm=MacBookPro
Maybe this won't time out.
blueOur Skytrak is sold. Frank sold it for 47k cash.
Blue,If you are set on the Apple, there are a couple of features that you might find handy for the job site.The power cord is attached magnetically instead of a connection. If you are plugged in and someone trips on the cord, the laptop isn't going to crash to the floor.The built in i-sight camera might prove useful if you need to correspond with your client.If you are running a particular piece of software now that you need, make sure the Apple is going to handle it. No matter what Apple might claim, not everything is as easy as pie on the emulation of windows-based software. Ask someone at the Mac Store, or better yet run a google search and see if anyone's tried it out already.Lastly, if you are really planning on toting this around, you might look at the 13" Mac Book. It's much lighter. One thing you will give up on that one, though, is the back-lit keyboard, which might be worth having if you are frequently working in low light areas.
You don't have to worry whether PC software will run on the MacBook with its Core 2 Dual-processor. That's because you switch from running on the Mac's OSx processor to the Windows processor and the software will run just as it does on a PC machine (just as slowly, I might add). The OSx is SOOO much faster.
Gary W
gwwoodworking.com
Edited 11/2/2006 2:43 pm by GaryW
I should have been more clear on the software comment. Yes, the Core Duo chips made things much better. And you can switch back and forth on the Mac Books via Parallels and run most programs.I was thinking of my own experience with the Mac Book Pro. Really wanted one, but getting ColdFusion to run correctly proved to be a bridge too far due to the difference in how Java was handled on the Mac. Since I do much of my development through that, it just wasn't a viable option at the time. For me, it made more sense to wait it out a year until the software catches up to the power of the Mac. Yes, I still want one. :)And I'd definitely agree with you on the speed of OSX. I run my servers on Linux and love not having the sluggishness of windows there.
Thanks FatRoman.
I am interested in that built in i-sight feature primarily to converse with my grandkids in Texas while I'm working on my current project (see Zero Down thread). I like that magnetic feature too.
I'll keep your advice in mind about software.
Added to my checklist:
i sight feature
magnetic cord.
blueOur Skytrak is sold. Frank sold it for 47k cash.
Nice machine - the MacBook Pro. When I need a new laptop, I've thought I might front for the MacBook Pro with a 17" screen. On the other hand, I primarily use my Dell here in the shop - as I am now, networked with an inexpensive desktop. Instead of using the laptop's 17" screen and keyboard, I close it (keeping out the dust) and use it with a 22" flat screen monitor (a ViewSonic) and wireless keyboard and mouse (Logitec). So a big screen may not be necessary, but it's a tough choice. That's because I use the laptop by itself when I'm working on the couch at home with a glass of wine in one hand and a wireless mouse in the other, while also watching the World Series. In that case, the bigger screen is easier on my old eyes - and I'll add again that my kid's MacBook sure has a brighter screen than my Dell's.
I hope this helps.Gary W
gwwoodworking.com
I use the laptop by itself when I'm working on the couch at home with a glass of wine in one hand and a wireless mouse in the other, while also watching the World Series.
That's how I intend to use it. I'd substitute a glass of green tea with a generous slice of fresh lemon though in the wine glass.
blueOur Skytrak is sold. Frank sold it for 47k cash.
Nothing wrong with that.....Gary W
gwwoodworking.com
That could be the one from TV commercials.... someone drops it then spills coffee on it and it is OK.
After lugging a laptop up 160 steps twice a day last week, for GC or other construction or on-site work go withone without an internal CD burner, get the lightest you can get. Use thumb drives in place of the CD. Leave the charger in the truck, leave the normal satachel in the truck too, get a lightweight satchel that just protects from weather. .
Dont get a Dell......... had one of their laptops and two desk tops....... all of them only lasted a couple of years.......
and learn to speak off shore for support...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
I'll second the "no Dell" vote. My Dell is still working well after several years but no thanks to "Dell support" who never helped at all.
The only thing that's saved me is having a lot of compter backgound so that I could solve the problems and find a replacment on my own.Example:When my power unit failed I called Dell to order another one. The guy on the the end (in India) insisted on going though a 45 minute troubleshooting routine, at the end of which he told me I needed a new power unit, which was what I told him when I first called. He then switched me to another guy in a different country who said that the only unit they had that would work for my computer was $695. - I paid around
$500 for the whole computer. At that point I gave up, drove downtown and bought a replament power supply from a local tech shop for $45.00. Rusti
This might be more than you want to do, but if you want to save some money and avoid both the Gates to He11 and Jobs insecurity, find a used laptop and load it with linux. There will be a learning curve.
Other than that, I agree with the more RAM (at least 1 GB). The ultralight laptops will be more restrictive in this matter, and they generally will use some of the RAM for graphics. Also figure how much disk space you need. Probably you can get by with 40 GB, but I don't know what you do so 60GB won't hurt anything except your wallet.
Ultralights also have smaller screens, make sure that is ok with your eyes.
IF you do Windoze, do XP-Pro for the additional security.
Try to get builtin wireless, if you want to use wireless.
I like the neoprene cases, but you might need something sturdier.
My Dell survived the cargo hold of a few flights on that fatefull Thursday. But it did get dented.
Any external hard drive will have a one touch backup option. Just watch the ads for a sale/rebate and you should be able to get a really big one for $100 or less.
blue.. how good are your eyes? i just bought a 17" HP
you might want to just buy a POS on sale as part of your learning the in & outs of laptops
next Spring the new operating system from windows will have already been thru it's gamma testing ( by the end-users ) and you will want the new OS from Windows
also... some of the laptops have the numerical keypad set up just like your conventional keyboard... most of the smaller ones force you to use the numbers across the top.. very hard for spread sheet users
the mouse almost always sucks.. so i use a plug-in mouse
the power source : you will need a 12 volt converter so you canrun it off a cigarette lighter in the dash.. otherwise you will use all your battery power fast
if you are doing graphics , you need a good graphics card and lots of ram
i usually buy my computers from a specialty store ( PC Wharehouse ).. but i bought my laptop at Bestbuy... and i bought a 3-year extended warranty...
i looked at the apple-books , but the bottom line was double the Windows based laptops
the processor can be either AMD or Intel.. but try to get the dual-core tech..
and i'm serious about buying a POS to get you by for a year... the ones you will be able to buy on sale next summer are going to make the best ones available now look like a POS anyways
hey... do you want "Fiasco" or "State of Denial " or not ?
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Why would you want to wait fo MS Vista when Mac OS 10.4 already has everything that Vista will have. Next spring 2007 Mac OS 10.5 will leap frog MS again. Why wait? My $.02.
because i have windows specific programs, so i'm not interested in MacMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
My point was why advise someone else to wait fo MS Vista? If their starting from scratch buy the OS that has the most features.
Mike, thanks for all the advice, but no thanks on the book. I won't be reading any books in the next few months unless they deal with historic renovations, federal tax credits etc!
I'm not really concerned about learning how to work a laptop. I'm going to get a remote mouse and keyboard for when I'm in the office but everywhere else I'll just deal with things. I'm somewhat resilient.
I'll get that 12 converter-that's a great tip. I've been meaning to get one anyways and this will be the catalyst to actually check that one off the list.
I don't see me doing too much graphics or cad work, but if the need arises, I'll purchase a secondary computer more compatible for those needs. Mainly, I just want to be able to take my computer to work so I can talk you you guys from my new warroom. Wait till you see that!
I'll probably get the three year warranty with the 24 hour fed ex option and I'm probably going to accept Pino's advice and buy from his source. I know he's awesome at researching things so I doubt that I could do much better doing it my way.
Thanks for the input.
blueOur Skytrak is sold. Frank sold it for 47k cash. I'm now officially retired as a carpenter. I've offered to fill in for Frank in emergencies, but when he calls, I'll probably say no LOL!
Dell Inspiron or an Apple MacBook with dual processor. I use a Dell, but my next will be a MacBooks, can run PC software, like my CabnetWare (which runs only on a PC). The Mac has a brighter, more graphics oriented screen than my Inspiron, and in the Mac mode (switched from PC mode), it's SOOOO much faster and less prone to viruses. Both are pretty durable. My Dell goes to the shop and often to dusty job sites where I draw from site measurements. My son's MacBook seems equally durable.
Gary W
gwwoodworking.com
Blue:
A couple observations: I use a Dell and although I really like it and have had no real problems with it, it is heavy to lug a laptop around all the time. I've never used an Apple so I'm not even going to put my horse in that race. Your computer, whatever it is, can never be too fast or have too much memory. Back-up whatever you get every day or two, without fail, because sooner or later you will have a hard drive crash and you will lose everything on it.
Lately I've started usung a PDA (Palm Treo 650 Smart Phone) to keep track of things during the day and then "syncing" it with my laptop in the evenings. The number of programs that you can get for the PDA is truly impressive, from time tracking to job management software. The only downside for me so far is that I still use Quick-Books pro for my book keeping and I haven't come across a program that integrates well with QBPro.
Good Luck, BILL
Don't screw around, buy the tool that was built to be the best tool. As someone who has had to lug around a laptop for well over a decade, and used it for everything from presentations, running oddly coded software, picture and movie tweaking, and games (lots of hotel downtime to burn), you really have to get the Bosch/Milwaukee/Metabo of the laptop world:
http://www.pc.ibm.com/us/notebooks/thinkpad/t-series/index.html
I've tried Dell, HP, Compaq, even Apple. I actually bought, used, and ultimatly returned 4 different laptops before I bit the bullet and got a REAL tool for business (and personal) use. I've turned other members of my family onto the IBM T series, and have had no problems nor complaints about it - they LOVE them. The prefer using their laptops to their desktops... in most cases it is faster or at least equal.
The IBM T series has the best balance between weight and usefull features. Your optimium weight is going to be 5 to 6 pounds - NO MORE. The more it weighs, the less you will have it with you when you need it - and you always need it with you to crack open at the drop of a hat.
Here are the specs you need in a laptop:
1. The slowest processor! Power savings is very important. Save power and money by skimping here. BTW, the new Core Duo from Intel is a pretty kick azz chip, powerful and efficient.
2. Discrete graphics. Don't buy anything with an Intel Graphics option. It sucks down your RAM memory and limits performance of 3D applications - think CAD drawings. This really frees up system performance.
3. 7,200 RPM Hard Drive. Laptops are notoriously slow, and the HD is where alot of that comes from. This makes a laptop just as fast as most desktops in usefull things, like opening applications and booting!
4. Max your RAM...YOURSELF. It is not hard to do, and RAM is one of those options they REALLY bone you on when you buy it from the dealer. Quality aftermarket RAM can be 80% cheaper when you buy and add it yourself. Spend that money on other better parts!
Plus, they have all sorts of really good business class support. It's what they do best.
Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
Paul, you are making this difficult. I was already sold on the Apple, now your taking me in another direction.
I don't see me running any cad programs on it. I'm much too dense to delve into that kind of drawing program.
All your suggestions are helpful and appreciated. That machine looks good. How important is your advice to me knowing that I won't be running cad on the laptop. I plan on using the services of architects but I would like the ability to accept some drawings via email.
blueOur Skytrak is sold. Frank sold it for 47k cash.
I use CAD as an example to illustrate how applications you will or even might use can benifit from a discreet graphics controller. The world is only getting more image intensive, and those images are going to get alot more complex.
It's like buying a bigger compressor than you need, just in case you need to feed another gun on the same line.
BTW, in getting a Mac, you may run into odd software problems. For instance, I use a program called Alcohol 120%, which is a CD drive emulator that also allows you to create images of copy protected CD's. I use it to play my games without worrying about swapping out and damaging actual discs. Handy for my wife too, who has various refference material on CD ROM.
I turned my neighbor onto this software for his residency learning materials. Instead of swapping out a stack of CD's, he has them all on his hard drive on his PC. Well, one day he stops by for help - he just got a new Mac and can't run the Alcohol software in his Windows emulator. OK, he just needs to get the Mac equivalent of this software right? No such software exists. He is SOL on a software product he already owns but can't use on his Mac AND he can't get something to take its place.
Just passing on my experience, Mac is a fine platform but I don't believe it is for everyone - especially those who might have to deal with older windows based software. Construction calcs, database tools, blueprint tools, whatever... proceed with care. Try before you finalize the buy - most will let you keep it for 30 days before the transaction is final.Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
Paul, I really do appreciate your advice concerning the application problems that might occur. Realistically though, I probably won't have much problem. I'm not that technically savvy ( I'm a small baby step above Hazlett) and I don't load many progams. I'm basically an email and browser kinda guy. I do play with the construction pictures a bit and I want to be able to scan and save documents to a pdf file and get rid of my file cabinets.
Thanks again for your experience.
blue
ps lets ressurect the screw debate though...that was fun.Our Skytrak is sold. Frank sold it for 47k cash. I'm now officially retired as a carpenter. I've offered to fill in for Frank in emergencies, but when he calls, I'll probably say no LOL!
ps lets ressurect the screw debate though...that was fun.
I will sometime soon. Those are fun brain games! I've been amassing different ones to beat up. I also still have to follow up on that one the Mike Smith, Piffen and I were talking about awhile back regarding number of blows and holding power with nails.
Hey, maybe I'll even submit an article to FHB! Wouldn't that be a stitch!Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
I bought a HP 17" wide screen a little while back, it's running windows xp, the link below is to a comprable model albeit a little faster etc then mine is.
http://tinyurl.com/yh7bcw
I really like mine, battery life seems to be pretty good up to this point, the feature I like most is the number pad on the side of the key board. I end up using it as much as the keyboard especially in programs such as excel or cad.
I'd suggest looking into the accidental damage warranty, a lot of people seem to think they are a rip off, however I bring my laptop to customers houses, move it often and I travel with it frequently. If you will be doing the same the money doesn't sound that bad. I think I paid around $300.00 to cover mine for 3 years. If I drop it, spill on the keyboard, etc. it's covered. It also covers the battery so when it starts waining in a year or so they will replace it for free.
The wide screen is nice, I'd hate to look at a small screen all day, the down-side is it's big and heavy, I find it hard to use on a plane comfortably.
accidental damage warranty is added to the checklist.
Thanks CAG.
I like the widescreen and I'll check to see if the Mac have them.
blue
Our Skytrak is sold. Frank sold it for 47k cash.
It's pricey but I like the peace of mind, so did the boss as I fried my last laptop with a coke...
cool tool, ain't it?A step up from mine and beter price IIRC. Maybe I shoulda waited!Sure...
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Two weeks after I bought mine the "new improved" version came out, for the same price as mine and it had a little more in it...
who cares?
it's out of date by techie standards the day you buy it so it doesn't matter.
It has been a great computer so far, no problems at all except the / key popped off the number pad and I haven't been able to get it back on, I figure one of these days I'll bring it in and get it fixed
CAG,
Yeah, I've had a zd7000 series since they first came out. The Numeric keypad was a big selling point for me. It's big and heavy though. The 17" screen is nice. Mines been bulletproof, for a couple of years so far. Xp-pro, makes a difference it seems.
Brudoggie
DW got a HP media edition. Came with color printer/scanner right a 1K
Chuck S
live, work, build, ...better with wood
Another vote for the Mac....the little black Mac-book looks pretty cool, but the screens a bit small (15") & they aren't doing the 17" in Black...sigh
It helps if you have a teacher or a student in the family....'cause you will want (probably) the MS Office suite, and the price is a lot better with the educational discount. (goes for the machine, too)
Also, get the "Move-to-Mac" software...will transfer any current stuff from your (whatever you've been using) to your new Mac.
I'm no i-pod glazed eyed fanatic, but I've been extremely happy with my 2 year old Powerbook....built-in wireless, syncs my job cellphone contacts via Bluetooth, all-in-all, lots less agro than the many years spent with MS products
APPLE - APPLE - APPLE
I've been using an IBook for about two or three years. I will never go back to a PC again. The way the software works together is great. You can get all the business software to run on this machine too. The only thing we still need to use a PC for is our cabinet design software which only comes in a PC version.
please check out apple computers
i cannot stress it enough
dell ibm gateway are all the same
virus prone virus prone virus prone
these apple machines are slim light and super user friendly
once you go mac you will never go back
i have had mine for 2 years
it took me a few days to figure out the system
but its so much simpler than those microsoft things
more fluid ..ten thousand times better go to a dealer and check it out
dont get bought into those cheep microsoft laptops
you will be getting a new one next year..or getting your fixed
just go down to your local ibm computer fixer guy...there are machines with virus's and many other problems laying around all over the place, bunches of them, piles of them...now go to your local apple dealer ...no apple computers to be found broke down
this is the biggest thing ...they always work nothing weird ever happens it amazing an ive seen my share of dirty stuff on the internet...if you know what i meen..
In all my years of running WinTel equipment, I've never gotten a virus. Ever. No bad adware either, other than easily deleted cookies.
Sure, viruses can and do happen - but you are not destined to get them by any means.Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
Thanks Drift...I'm sold on the Macs
blueOur Skytrak is sold. Frank sold it for 47k cash. I'm now officially retired as a carpenter. I've offered to fill in for Frank in emergencies, but when he calls, I'll probably say no LOL!
Blue,I switched to Mac in the spring of 2004. I think you will be very happy with your new laptop. Bill
I had some educational expierence with some Macs. I wasn't impressed with OS10.2, or many of the built in goodies. Ours were mostly desktops, and they suffered heat problems, where they basicly overheated in summer months and would be useless, had other QC issues, and almost were impossible to work on or troubleshoot. And the weren't POS models. They have a place in today's computing world. But for GC or construction use with drawings and plans, QB and file transfer I feel PC is the way to go. You can always throw it away when/if it dies.If I was Blue I'd but the Mac, use and enjoy it and keep us posted on they merits of the macs.
Edited 11/4/2006 1:08 pm ET by try50772
I use an iMac and PowerBook with Quicken, Microsoft Excel, Word, and the other MS Office stuff. I have been playing with Sketch Up for Mac. I prefer Safari, but sometimes use IE too. I have had no file transfer problems and the PC people I email MS attachments to (generated on Macs) have no problems with the files (and don't even know I'm on a Mac). This is on 5 and 6 year-old machines. Some Microsoft stuff for Mac seems to work better than the PC versions.The new Intel Core 2 Duo chips mean Mac's will run Windows XP natively (no windows emulator will be required, though some prefer Parallels so Windows runs within OSX--rather than loging out of OSX and into Windows XP in seperate HD partitions). I have read that Windows XP Pro may work better than the home version.For people switching to Mac this forum may be helpful (this link is on running Windows on Macs, but you can ask about anything in there):http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?messageID=2422914�
Get a Notebook Laptop; There's actually a great article on notebook computers in JLC in September.
Jim,
I've had luck with Compaqs. In all honesty though, I dont necessarily bring them on site very often. I know they are priced decently (80gig) memory for under a grand.
I think when the time comes i'll buy another Compaq. My major concern with whatever you get would be keeping dust out of it. i think there was a similar thread about laptops recently that mentioned one that had somthing to do with Hummer trucks that sounded bullet proof and pricey.
Let us know what you end up with.
When does deconstructon start on your school? Bring on the pics and have fun.
Mark, I had a compaq when I first started in windows 95. It worked fine. I'm sold on the apples though, even though they are pricey.
blueOur Skytrak is sold. Frank sold it for 47k cash. I'm now officially retired as a carpenter. I've offered to fill in for Frank in emergencies, but when he calls, I'll probably say no LOL!
But the Apple's arn't pricey. They just come pre-configured with what you expect!
Update.
Prior to purchasing the laptop, I had the fortune to meet Dave, the son of my realtor. Dave happens to be a computer geek. He and nine others are in charge of maintaining 400 servers. When I mentioned that I wanted a mac, he asked me why. I couldn't explain that my internet buddies talked me into it, so I gave him my best reasons: security. I was/am tired of windows security issues. I've lost everything twice and when I try to secure my computer so nothing gets through to me, I can't do anything on the internet.
He then gives me the bad news. Sometime in the last year or so, Mac's stopped using Motorola hardware and are now using Intel. They did that so windoze could be -running on their equipment. He now says Apple is just as opened up to virii and other malicious acts because they basically are just another PC.
To enjoy the safety of the old Mac platforms, he tells me I have to use a laptop that is about 1 year old or so.
comments?
blue
been out of touch for almost 5 yearsIMO the security problem is with the software, not the hardware, so depending what the software is doing will depend on the security vulnurability.I don't know the answer to this question, what software connects you to the internet? what software reads the disks when inputting that way. if MS software does either, then you have vulnurabilities you have to be concerned with.BTW think I heard on the Today show this mornign that Apple is cutting back on their support.also have heard of folks having trouble opening pictures on Macs.
bobl Volo, non valeo
Baloney detecter WFR
I do know the answer. The Mac OSX is a unix based operating system which is much more secure than MS Windows. The fact that Apple is using Intel chips has nothing to do with it. The only thing is if you choose to also run MS Windows to acess the internet you could get infected on the MS Windows partition of your hard drive. That said, if you need to run MS Windows programs then do so. Just use the Mac OSX when going on the internet.
Hey Jim,T White is right. I have a new apple laptop (15" macbook) with the dual intel processor, and the mac side is safe (for now<G>).Just use the windoze side for applications.Not a problem opening any pics...even Gunner's<G>Support never was any good, but it's a damn site better than dell...actually the support is okay, after some prodding.Apple is constantly coming up with security updates, and you are notified through the computer whenever a new one is available.I've never lost anything on a mac that I didn't stupidly delete myself...pcs and me are a whole nother story...and a loaded pc similar to the mac your looking at, isn't that much cheaper. "I am the master of low expectations." Georgie Boy, aboard Air Force One, June 4, 2003
even computer geeks don't all know their azz from a hole in the ground...
think about all the stupid shid you have read posted here by construction "professionals"
Hes a real nowhere manSitting in his nowhere landMaking all his nowhere plans for nobodyDoesnt have a point of viewKnows not where hes going toIsnt he a bit like you and me? Nowhere man please listenYou dont know what youre missingNowhere man, the world is at your commandHes as blind as he can beJust sees what he wants to seeNowhere man, can you see me at allNowhere man dont worryTake your time, dont hurryLeave it all till somebody elseLends you a handAh, la, la, la, laDoesnt have a point of viewKnows not where hes going toIsnt he a bit like you and me? Nowhere man please listenYou dont know what youre missingNowhere man, the world is at your commandAh, la, la, la, laHes a real nowhere manSitting in his nowhere landMaking all his nowhere plans for nobodyMaking all his nowhere plans for nobodyMaking all his nowhere plans for nobody
Ran into a friend today I haven't seen in 3 months. He had an Apple laptop. He said his sister who works for a local school board bought it for him as a gift. He said he should have switched years ago. He said he can't wait for people to ask him about his new laptop!
Blue,
I work with a variety of computers and operating systems professionally spending most of my time recently on Windows systems.
I've worked with several Apple computers as far back as the II+ era with good to excellent results.
I recommend that you go look at them at a store or find someone that has one similar.
Try the screen, the keyboard, and the touchpad. You'll interact with the "input/output" a pretty fair amount and they should fit you.
This is along the line of "This hammer feels better to me."
The latest operating system on the Mac is relatively more secure than Windows as it comes out of the box.
You can find a way to get a virus on the Mac... just have to work at it a little harder :)
You still need virus checking software. There are viruses written for the Mac; just not as many of them....
It's also possible to make Windows systems more secure; they don't come that way "out of the box" and it requires a fair bit of work to make them secure and keep the darn things secure.
Bottom Line: If the software available for the Mac does all that you want to do and you want to limit the amount of time maintaining the computer (you don't want to be a geek), get one. You'll be happy.
You'll also get that smug, superior look every time your in the same room with one of those poor benighted fools that wasted his money on a Windows box <G>
Marc
It's also possible to make Windows systems more secure; they don't come that way "out of the box" and it requires a fair bit of work to make them secure and keep the darn things secure.
Bottom Line: If the software available for the Mac does all that you want to do and you want to limit the amount of time maintaining the computer (you don't want to be a geek), get one. You'll be happy.
Thanks for the input Marc.
My problems with Windows is related to my inability to understand what it takes to keep the machine safe from intruders. At one point, I went to a windows fixit site and spent an hour shutting off all the features that had took control of my machine. At that time, my windows was flying. Unfortunatly, my family wanted things like active x and java to work, so slowly and surely more intrusions were allowed. Now, the machine is just like the olden days....wide open and every freakin popup finds me and takes control.
Currently, I'm on a wireless network out of necessity. I can't get the security features to work. When I try to set the security higher, it won't work. So, after wasting far too many hours of my life, I give in and the entire neighborhood can tap into my wifi!!!
I try to read up on how to fix these problems but I don't understand Greek.
My hope is that the Mac would be slightly better right out of the box and I don't have to reprogram my brain to speak computer geek language.
blue
I run a pc desk top. windows 2000xp pro. I'am on earthlink. I let earthlink do the fire wall, spam protector, spyware, etc. Macafee virus plan. All automatic. All I do is run ad-aware religously after going off line. NO problems what so ever in the two years that I've been on this system. I recently picked up a gateway laptop and am in the process of setting it up the same way. It will be used for customer presentations with cabinet design software and vender access to their sites for ordering the materials. One important thing you need to know. I'Am the only person who uses the computers. That way I know the units are staying safe. You might want to get the fam their own units to use. If they screw them up, they fix 'em. With that frame of mind they might not be so careless with their security.
Don't mean to be so cruel but my wife can look at a unit and make it crash, just got tired of paying and fixing when it could have been avoided.
All I do is run ad-aware religously after going off line
Huh?
"running ad-ware religously" is kinda like speeking Greek to me. I'm sure it's a nice thing to do, but I don't have a clue. When I've experimented and tried to run softwre that "protects" me, my computer has froze up and taken ten minutes to boot. I'm not really interested in waiting ten minutes to boot and then two minutes per web page.
The only thing I do religously is procrastinate.
blue
"I try to read up on how to fix these problems but I don't understand Greek."
Blue, there is no "r" in Geek...
-The spelling police
I'm Bad, I'm Nation-wide!!
Dave is an idiot.It's not the chipset that makes windows computers more susceptible to virii, it's Wtndows.
Just my thoughts on Windows, laptop recommendations, etc....Windows stuff...
A couple reasons why Windows is more prone to catching a virus are:1)...yes it does have a few weak spots...and 2) being that it has a roughly 80-85% share of the market..it makes sense for hackers to write virus for Windows versus Mac. Hackers go for the numbers...and in this case the large share of Windows users makes it a more attractive target.That being said...millions of users have used Windows for years now with little or no problems. In about 12 or so years I've been using different version of Windows I think I've had 2..maybe 3 serious issues. Everyone one of them was 100% my fault. (1 running a web server with open shares...very stupid.... and another was downloading a trial program of one sort or another that was a downloader virus, etc). Both times, 100% my fault.People talk about compatibility problems, issues, etc..with different hardware on PCs. Well the main reason for that is that with a Mac, you only get one choice as to your Manufacturer...they sell you the hardware and software (OS) as a package (granted..they do get hardward from different manufactures...but they have complete control over what goes in their system..and are more likely to make sure it works 100%). With Windows, you can get your hardware from 50 different companies. Each of which may try and sell you hardware from 1000s of different companies. Each and every one of those pieces of hardware may or may NOT work 100% correctly with each operating system you try and use. This is because many of those companies develope cheap products and write POOR drivers for them that don't work. (and yet when this happens...everyone blames Microsoft for it...which IMO is a copout).Laptop stuff...If you go the Windows route, buy from a good company..one that has support..uses quality hardware, etc.As far as specs are concerned....for a business laptop I'd be looking for the following:1) Processor wise, the current Intel Core Duo's and better yet...the Core 2 Duo's would be my chip of choice. The last couple years, Intel has made a good shift towards chips that run at lower clock speeds, use less power, put out less heat, and currently are the top performers out there.2) Ram, start with a MINIMUM of 512 right off the bat (I'd prefer 1 gig). Don't waste your time with 256 and then think "I'll upgrade later". Just do it now. Also, depending on how many ram slots you have..mostly likely 2 in a laptop....try and get 1 512 meg chip to leave you with an open slot. If you can afford and are willing to go to 1 gig of ram...by all means do it. The thing about laptops is..they have slower hard drives compared to desktops and as such, you'd rather do more work in RAM, versus having to go back to the drive all the time if possible.3) As a business laptop, I doubt you're going to be storing GIGS of videos. I wouldn't waste my money on the largest drive out there. Your OS and programs will probably take up anywhere from 5 to 10 gigabytes total (unless you decide to throw on some CAD software), so you probably don't need 160 gigabytes of storage. If you want a better performer...you might consider a bit faster hard drive..such as a 7,200 rpm versus 5,400 rpm drive. They will run a little hotter and a little louder...but if you want a bit more performance, this is definitely a possibility.4) Screen size..yes...bigger is better...most of the time. If all you want to do is check email and/or breaktime 3 times a day from the road, then by all means, get a small screen (12" or 14"). This will reduce the weight of the system and make it much easier to carry around. However, if you want to do more like actually open up some spreadsheets...graphics...possibly some cad drawings, etc...then you will really appreciate the larger screens (15" and 17"). Another thing..as we get older..our eyes don't seem to like the TINY screens as much...I know mine don't....lol.5) Video card.... chances are you're not going to be doing any gaming, so you won't need the fastest 256 or 512 meg video card. If you think you'll be doing some graphics work...cad stuff, etc...then you will want to consider these, definitely. If all you're going to do is email, some word documents, time tracking, etc....then save some money, get a built-in video card (although I've always hated these due to their slower performace and shared memory aspects..but that's another story).6) Battery.. many of the "sales" you see advertised come with the low capacity batteries...6 cell..etc. Keep an eye on that, and see if the particular laptop you're looking at has different options (they all do)....such as 4 cell, 6 cell, 9 cell, etc. If you think you'll need to be somewhere where you need long battery life (or even if you just want it), consider the larger capacity batteries. If all you're doing is leaving your laptop plugged in to a docking station or just an outlet, then you won't need the extra capacity. The thing is though..that ONE day....you will be away from an outlet and you will need to have that extended battery life and you WILL appreciate it.7) Networking...most laptops will have a wired port..and either a standard or optional wireless one (either built in or through a PCMCIA slot, usb, bluetooth, etc). Personally I prefer Intel NICs, but most large manufacturers will do. One thing I would caution against is buying an OEM customized networking card (such as a Dell wireless, etc). I'm NOT saying they don't work well...just that sometimes when you buy a customized piece like that...things have been modified to Dell's (in this example) specs. I've heard of people having more difficulties in setting that stuff up with other brands of hardware, wireless routers, etc. In this instance, I'd prefer a retail version, such as an Intel, Netgear, Linksys, etc. That way you know it was not made to work with only 1 laptop or brand, model, etc. Also, I'm not big on USB for networking. USB was not designed for networking...it's more of an overall catch everything type of system. Does it work? Yes...do I like it? No.8) Backup options....DVD'Rs and CDR's are nice. You can backup your files, put the media in a safe and forget about it. I try and do that (minus the safe...lol) once every couple weeks. It's cheap insurance. However, on a daily basis, I'd be more inclined (ease of use) to back up my files on a networked computer or possibly a flash drive. However, if you're using a flash drive as a daily part of your system..that goes with you all the time...is susceptible to possible damage, theft, etc...do NOT rely on it for your backup. If you have a few thumb drives and are doing some type of rotating backup system with those (daily, etc), that's one thing. But if you only have 1, and you carry it with you....that is NOT a backup.9) Warranty. This is a business machine? This is important? You cannot afford 3 weeks of downtime? Personally, I'm looking for next day ON-SITE support. Yes.....you do pay more for that, but that's how it goes. If you go with a box store (Best Buy, Compusa, Circuit City), be prepared for some downtime..while they take your laptop in....maybe give you a loaner....maybe they try and fix your laptop in store....or send it in somewhere else. This may take 1 day or 3 weeks! Go with an HP, Dell, Lenovo, etc...with next day on site service! One more thing....carefully look into what each company considers "on site". Some will consider on site as at home...as in your mailing/shipping address. Others will come to where you are located, for example if you're working on the road, etc. As a contractor...do you have time to sit at home and wait for them to show up? Probably not.That's about all for now..I need some coffee.I read through the majority of posts....and I think you settled on a Mac...so I think I just wasted quite a bit of time...but it's cool..I needed a refresher on this stuff.
On market share of operating systems:Your 80-85% for Windows is close to the numbers for 15 years ago.In 1992 Mac OS had a 12% market share.By 2002 Mac OS was down to 2% and was on the verge of extiction.In 2006, the Mac OS has grown 35% and this growth is accelerating, but has just broken 5% market share. Windows is probably still over 90% with Linux, etc. constituting the remainder.I predict that if you wait a few more years...your figures will once again be correct. Mac OS will likely add another 2% or so to market share next year...and so on, and so on.http://switchtoamac.com/site/apples-mac-os-market-share-spikes-to-521-percent-up-35-percent-year-over-year-growth-accelerates.html
JJ, thanks for taking the time. Your thoughts are not wasted. You've given up a lot of information on a point by point basis that helps me understand what I'm trying to figure out. You are giving my a logical point of view to base my decisions on.
I'm being told two different things about the latest Mac offerings regarding security and I don't know which side to believe.
"it makes sense for hackers to write virus for Windows versus Mac"
that in itself gives Mac a big edge because my main goal is to avoid the hassles associated with virii.
blue
The security of the computer has little-to-nothing to do with the processor.Even if it DID, most any laptop you buy these days (mac or otherwise) is going to be using the Intel chips.The reason OSX doesn't have as many virii is because it's a much harder operating system to write virii for. For any software to install itself in a way to have root access, you have to get prompted for your username and password. So, if you did get a virii, it would be from your own doing by installing it yourself.Another benefit is that OSX doesn't run Internet Explorer. The PC version of Internet Explorer has typically been the 'front door' for a lot of virii to enter.Now, in a little bit of fairness to Microsoft, IE7 is better. Much better, actually. Windows also comes with a firewall now and MS is releasing their own, free anti-virus software as well.
--"Another benefit is that OSX doesn't run Internet Explorer."Not that it matters, but I have IE running in OSX. But I prefer Safari and use it far more.
Speak the truth brother!
That's the Mac version of IE. Completely different beast.
Now you can run both Mac and Windows IE versions on Macs if it suits your fancy.
".yes it does have a few weak spots...and 2) being that it has a roughly 80-85% share of the market..it makes sense for hackers to write virus for Windows versus Mac"This is a bit of an urban myth.Market share has a minimal effect on the cracker's motives. There are millions upon millions of Macs out there...it's certainly a viable target to hit.An more clear example are web servers. The two predominant web servers are Windows (IIS) And linux (Apache). Apache has a larger market share of the web server market, yet IIS is targetted MUCH more due to the fact it's less secure.Now, to be fair, most any OS these days is far from perfect, susceptible to virii, and can certainly be secured if the owner knows what they are doing.However, most folks aren't OS security experts. And, as such, Windows is simply a poorer OS to run. Windows has always been a developers dream because it allows you to write hooks deep into the OS everywhere. Alas, this also means that virii can use those same hooks. Anyways, if you go with Windows, just be sure to have a firewall, don't use IE, avoid Outlook, and run anti-virus software and anti-spyware software.
Darrel,
You've brought up a couple good points regarding market share in the server world and how that has not constituted a larger # of attacks for Apache.
However, I personally still believe that if someone had a choice of writing a virus that had a potential pool of users of 85% (someone else stated that number was outdated and it's closer to 90% or above, but I'll just go with the original 85% for now.) versus a potential pool of users that might be 5%, more often than not, they would go for the larger audience. If the 85% to 5% ratio is even close, you're talking 17 times more Windows machines than Macs...which makes them a much more attractive audience.
As far as web server softare, I did a litte search on that and came up with this:
http://www.serverwatch.com/news/article.php/3636566
I'm not saying this is a definitive answer regarding the number of web servers out there (since noone will ever be able to make a 100% accurate count), but I bet it's close. Looks like apache has twice as many installations as IIS. So yes, it does have more installations, but does not get attacked as much (that kind of shoots my argument in the foot..somewhat). The thing is (to me at least): 1) yes, servers are run by IT pros who try to stay on top of security, and 2) the 2-1 ratio (apache vs iis), is not even close to the 17-1 (my estimate) ratio of Windows to Macs. Again, that's why I believe the sheer number of potential targets is enticing to hackers. (If you ran a business, and did some advertising...would you advertise in an area where you think 85% of potential customers might respond, or where 5% might respond?)
As some have stated earlier in this thread, out of the box, the Windows machines are not as secure. So until the user does something to take care of that (stopping unnecessary services, password protecting shares, disabling shares, running behind a firewall (hardware and/or software), anti-virus software, keeping system software and patches up to date, etc, the potential for hackers is there. Does that mean someone should avoid a Windows based machine? To me...no.
That being said, anyone who would NOT consider buying a Windows based machine based on the idea that they are unsecure and cannot be secured is bizaar in my opinion. In the news, we always hear the bad stuff, virus problems, hackers, etc. However, in day to day life, most users are running their Windows based home computers, business computers, laptops, etc....and are doing so just fine. (As I stated in my previous post, in about 12 years, I had 2 problems, both of which were my fault. I'd be crazy to consider that number of problems a big reason to switch.)
In making a decision to purchase a new computer, any prospective buyer should check out all options. Check out the machines in person, try them out, feel them out. See what you like and don't like about each machine. See what kind of software is available for them (especially if you're going to run any special softare). Check out the support options from the different companies you're going to be buying from, prices, etc and then try and make a somewhat educated guess.
Ok, time to get back to my morning coffee....lol
"That being said, anyone who would NOT consider buying a Windows based machine based on the idea that they are unsecure and cannot be secured is bizaar in my opinion."I agree...BUT...Windows computers are a lot more effort to maintain. I use Macs Windows and Linux machines in my day-to-day life. I understand computers, so it's not a big deal for me, but when I have to recommend a computer to my in-laws, I have to go with the Mac. It's just less maintenance.My in-laws had an original iMac. Never really had to help them with anything. Now they have a Windows PC. About once a month when we visit I have to help them run the adaware, make sure virus updates happened, check the firewall, etc. Not a HUGE deal, but still, it's something that has to be done. Granted, I took off IE and Outlook for them...which helps a lot. ;o)It's the same reason I buy Hondas. I just hate having to tinker with cars to keep them running. ;o)
It's the same reason I buy Hondas. I just hate having to tinker with cars to keep them running
I'm buying a honda too. You've resold me on the Mac because I don't know how to tinker with the maintenance that Windows requires.
blue
Anyways, if you go with Windows, just be sure to have a firewall, don't use IE, avoid Outlook, and run anti-virus software and anti-spyware software
I'm batting about .100.
blue
I have a Toshiba CF-18 they cost $4000 they are water proof can drop them in the mud use them in the rain. THey will work in -20C weather , they have WIFI and Blue tooth , they cam be used as a tablet PC with touch screen and can be droped without miussing a beat. They also have a built in SD card reader that I use 2 Gb card for storing data or taking pictueres on site. They have in Toronto a wireless service that uses WiMax with an Inverter and a router in my vechicle I have internet on pretty much any job site in the Toronto region.
Dose everyone need a set up like this no on the other end of the scale you can get a 600-800 dollar Laptop and extra ram and have it run all the apps you requier. the Big thing as other have mentioned is have a good back up system and hard drives fail. and inverter will alow you to charge your laptop in the truck but I wouldnt leave the laptop running when driving or eaven for extended time with the truck running as most hard drives will be killed in no time that way. Unless you get a rugizided Laptop. Also keep it out of site and locked up if your on site a laptop is a shure bet to go walking if given half a chance. I did a progect for a Gas company here in Ontario and that whas the # 2 problem with laptops what thefts on jobsites the first was the non rugidizied laptops having the hard drives go tits up.