I tell ya my patience with the zoning-planning-building-dept is just about worn thin…. To get the okay to redo my crumbling brick foundation (which the inspector agreed was in real bad shape) I have to get the rear deck off the back of our house approved and pay a bunch of fees.
How it works is the inspector came out and looked it over and he’ll go back and look at the codes that were enforced when the deck was built (about 10 years ago) and we will have to bring the deck up to compliance with those codes…that is if we can convince him to not make us tear the entire thing out and just build a landing off the back of the house. I had to do a work thing so couldn’t be here when the inspectors showed so the wife was (I told her to wear a low cut shirt), but she said he was still kinda a jerk to her.
So here’s what we got.
Most of the things he said to fix were reasonable. The bottom two horizontal rails on the deck are two far apart with the bottom one being on the deck. I just have to pull that one up like an inch and he’ll be happy.
Here’s the crazy thing, looking at the picture the edge of the deck on the left side is too close to the property line. Zoning-fire code is 5′ eventhough it follows the rest of the house…he told her we need to put up a one hour fire wall there on the edge of the deck!! He was talking about 5/8″ type X drywall-on the outside of the house!! I don’t know what all types of wall assemblies are will make a one hour fire rating but I’m not putting drywall up in an exterior situation. I would like advice at what to do here.
I knew the stairs had issues.
I need to replace the treads with all the same size treads-I just quick screwed the 2by10’s there so we could get our new fridge up the stairs.
On the railings on the stairs he wants us to put in horizontal railings to match the deck railings and get the less than 4″ sphere rule working. That doesn’t seem to bad.
One thing I didn’t know was that the height of the hand rail apparently changes over the run of the stairs. At top its fine but at the bottom its ~3″ too low!! I would like advice on how to fix this. I was thinking I could just buy some handrail and cut some really long wedges on the table saw and install them under the new handrail so the handrail would be correct but the wide top of the rail would still be sloped. Or I could pull off the top rail and add wood to bring it back inline?
Any advice y’all can give would be greatly appreciated as I hope to mostly do this, this weekend-if I don’t blow the house up in frustration and disgust….(just kidding dept of homeland sec)
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Edited 8/17/2007 9:58 pm by madmadscientist
Edited 8/17/2007 9:58 pm by madmadscientist
Edited 8/17/2007 9:59 pm by madmadscientist
Replies
Ask the BI if he'll accept cement backer board as a fire wall, or maybe Hardie backer. Or maybe see if he'll approve a stud wall with Hardieplank as siding.
For the low railing, why not just cut loose the rails, unbolt the post, and replace it with posts cut to the right height?
"I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul." Invictus, by Henley.
Yea that's along the lines of what I was thinking. I was thinking of framing a wall there and sheathing both sides with ply and then use the same 3" lap siding on the house to cover all three sides of it with some kind of cap on top to shed water. That way it would blend into the existing, be wheather-proof (unlike drywall??) and look good.
Yea unbolting the bottom posts and re-installing correctly sized ones is probably the most sensible way to go...
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Also those long 'horizontal' runs of railing down the stairs are kinda floppy...not sure how to stiffen those up.
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
A third stringer would help.
Another solution is to drop a post lapped and bolted onto the two stringers, set into a post hole filled with concrete. If there were three stringers, and they were still bouncy, tie a beam to all three and then install the posts. Either way (3rd stringer or posts) is gonna require some work.
"I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul." Invictus, by Henley.
sorry I didnt' mean that the steps were springy (they a bit but I'll survive) I meant the long horizontal rails on the stairs. They are just 2by4's only supported at their ends.
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Looks like you already have a third stringer laying there.All you have to do is cut away everything that isn't stringer, and put it in place.~~~Put posts in the middle of that run of stairs. Since yer going to replace the bottom posts anyway, just reuse those in the middle. That will solve the saggy 2x4 question.
Yeh... That'll work.
Start mid span with a vertical block nailed or screwed into your tread and reaching up to the bottom of the lower rail, then block between rails."Poor is not the person who has too little, but the person who craves more."...Seneca
the inspector... he'll go back and look at the codes that were enforced when the deck was built (about 10 years ago)
Was a building permit pulled when the deck was built? If it was approved back then, then re-approving again seems like unnecessary work. If it wasn't approved or there was no permit, then try to think of the BI as doing you a favor, especially if this deck was build by the previous owner.
If you're looking for an easy solution to the stair railings, consider using lattice to meet the 4" rule. If you run the rails turned 90°, and set them flush with the outer edge of the posts, the lattice would "set in" and not intrude on the stairs. But check with the BI inspector first to see if this would be acceptable.
An easy solution for the low handrail would be to shorten the top post so it's the same as the bottom post and then raise the handrail 3" from top to bottom using handrail hardware. I would be tempted to do both sides for appearance even if the handrail is only required on one side.
Was a building permit pulled when the deck was built? If it was approved back then, then re-approving again seems like unnecessary work. If it wasn't approved or there was no permit, then try to think of the BI as doing you a favor, especially if this deck was build by the previous owner.
The deck was built by a previous owner with no permit. Not sure how the BI is doing us a favor-unless you mean checking to make sure its not unsafe? Making us chop 6' out of it and turning it into a landing is not going to be doing us any favors...
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Unpermitted work in my neighbourhood gets a teardown order and a tough sled through the permit process for rebuilding.
Should we be punished for work they know we didn't do that occured more than ten years ago?
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
I'll bet they got your attention about following code, right?
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
It isn't about whether I think it is fair, it is just the way it is.
> Should we be punished for work they know we didn't do that occured more than ten years ago?
Perhaps "punished" isn't quite the right word. When you buy something, you get all its liabilities, pre-existing conditions, and all the other downside stuff. That's a reason to inspect carefully before you buy. If it didn't work that way, people would be able to get away with all kinds of unpermitted work and code violations just by transferring title.
The deck itself, though, is completely inappropriate for a Victorian. It would be ok on a generic tract house. So, maybe use this as an excuse to make it match the rest of the building.
-- J.S.
The deck itself, though, is completely inappropriate for a Victorian. It would be ok on a generic tract house. So, maybe use this as an excuse to make it match the rest of the building.
Well I agree on that-it is inappropriate for a Victorian house. Luckily its in the back where no one but us and the neighbors who peak over their fence can see it. What would you suggest be done to make the deck look apropriate?
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
> What would you suggest be done to make the deck look apropriate?
First, I'd take a look at the front porch, and see if it would be reasonable to match the style.
Victorians would never do an open porch like that, it would be enclosed either with siding matching the rest of the house, or with a lattice painted to match. They might either have some ornate detail and vertical ballusters on the railings, or they might be enclosed and sided, too.
Enclosing that bottom space makes a nice garden shed for all the stuff you'll use doing a proper Victorian garden. Siding would be better than lattice for that, since you can see stuff thru the lattice.
-- J.S.
There is fiberglass reenforced gypsum panel that may be rated for exterior use.
For the stair rail, lower it at the top end to be even, then add a piece of rounded-over 2x4 on edge on top of the existing.
Yea lowering it by cutting the top post will be easier. Its supposedly 3" shy at the bottom so maybe a handrail on risers would work.
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Type "x" exterior use drywall should be readily available to you. It is used all the time in commercial zero lot line building situations and also in just exactly the cases like yours.
Stud wall, rock , felt, siding.
Actually surprised he didn't ask that the wall extend up to 24" above the eave line of your roof. Not untypical here for 1 hr. property line separations.
"Poor is not the person who has too little, but the person who craves more."...Seneca
Actually surprised he didn't ask that the wall extend up to 24" above the eave line of your roof. Not untypical here for 1 hr. property line separations.
Wow now that seems crazy to me. Just to protect the edge of a deck...wow I hope they dont' go that ridiculous. Though they might just to force us to get rid of it.
Well that's new to me exterior use drywall...If I did the stud wall thing and did siding on both sides do you think I would need the rock also?
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Mad, If he is calling for a one hour wall then you have to meet the code for that . My memory banks say that means either block or similar non-combustible or wood framed wall with rock type "X" rock . Clarify it with the BI."Poor is not the person who has too little, but the person who craves more."...Seneca
I think you got off easy. All those horizontal members on the railing system look like a ladder to every kid who walks by.
I think you got off easy. All those horizontal members on the railing system look like a ladder to every kid who walks by.
Well I don't know if we got off easy... I was expecting him to ding us for the horizontal rails but he didn't seem to mind. Maybe he took a look at the codes that were in force 10 years ago and they were okay back then? The deck is not a fabulous bit of skilled craftsmanship but we don't want to tear the damn thing down just to get the approval to do our foundation which is in dire need.
Here's my wifes take on it.
http://chezneumansky.blogspot.com/2007/08/inspection-fun.html
She's getting a bit annoyed with the holdups also...
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
No matter what happens with this. Always be there when he shows up. Always.
I agree I was planning on being there but then something crazy came up at work. I tried to reschedule for the next day but they were booked till the following week...I figured, teh wife's way prettier than me so maybe he will go easier on her.
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
I figured, teh wife's way prettier than me so maybe he will go easier on her.
Dan, you are in the San Francisco area, maybe he didnt want to see a woman!
Doug
It's a matter of respect. To most men in a position of authority, you just passed him off to the second in Command. Or even further down the line in his eyes. He wants to make clear what needs to be done to the person who in charge.
One of the first things a sales person does when selling to couple is figure out who is in charge. There is no sense in talking to the person who isn't. Sure they will say things to them but the person who is in charge is the buyer.
The last job a had was head of maintenance under a woman manager. She would schedule technicians to come in and do work on the building and never tell me. You're darn right I want to be there when he does the work. I want to look him in the eyes, pick his brain, and make sure he does it right.
No wonder she had a bad record with workers/techs that did work on the building. She didn't respect me or the tech by not making sure we were clear on what was happening.
Yeah, I was associated with a product that was (according to the original business case) going to be sold to engineers. It was something that engineers loved (so they said), but none of them bought it. Because, as it turned out, engineers aren't authorized to buy anything -- they must go through their company purchasing organization, and the product was one that was hard to justify through this chain.Never understood quite why our sales folks didn't figure this out from the git-go -- it took about six months of no sales before the point registered.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
It's a matter of respect. To most men in a position of authority, you just passed him off to the second in Command. Or even further down the line in his eyes. He wants to make clear what needs to be done to the person who in charge.
How do you figure? I thought Daniel said that his wife met the inspector, isnt his wife an equal in the house? What does that say about an inspector, or any person for that matter, that thinks that somehow he's being handed a second in comand because he has to meet with the wife instead of the husband?
I guess I dont have to deal with BS like this where I live so it seams forign to me to think that this kind of shid goes on. Glad I live where I do...
Doug
It depends on what the subject is. If the Avon woman is coming by for an appointment does the husband meet with her. If it is a design issue where looks and feel is are part of the decision then both parties would be involved. But most of the time women care more about looks and how it feels.
Men usually are more concerned with how it is done and the bottom line. Because most of the time they are doing the work. Why would you put someone between the worker and the person in charge? The chances for mis-communication goes through the roof.
No I do not believe men and women are the same. If you want to believe they are that's is your choice.
When you start talking about fire walls and stair treads who is going to be doing the work? Who has more at stake in the fixing of this? Who posted on this forum?
Alright, alright, who cares about Avon.
Could you please reiterate what the BI wants, and why? Do you need a fire rated assembly protecting the adjoinig property because your deck is within 5' of the property next door? The original house is OK, and will not require any Type X correct?
Could you please reiterate what the BI wants, and why? Do you need a fire rated assembly protecting the adjoining property because your deck is within 5' of the property next door? The original house is OK, and will not require any Type X correct?
You probably meant that last post for me. Yes we need a fire rated assembly (just for the deck not the house) to protect the adjoining property because we are within 5' of the property line.
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
You probably meant that last post for me. Yes we need a fire rated assembly (just for the deck not the house) to protect the adjoining property because we are within 5' of the property line.
ut oh, sounds like he heard about your grilling techniques! ;)
jt8
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for dinner, liberty is a well armed lamb protesting the vote." -- Benjamin Franklin
And likely the rest of the house doesn't require this because it predates the restriction.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
McMarky, I'm not the guy with the house. You should be asking him and he should be asking the inspector.
I'm just guessing here, but maybe the underside of the deck has combustibles and the deck would act like a flue. So a rated wall on the end would shut down the flue effect.
I just don't know enough to say. That's why you talk to the guy who said put a wall here. Ask him why and how. What would be acceptable.
Edited 8/20/2007 2:50 pm ET by popawheelie
BS
"BS"
Well, that's to the point. But I thought what popawheelie had to say about miscommunication had some merit.
I agree that differences between men and women (actual or perceived) are not relevant here, but it would be better if the person performing the work were the one to talk to the inspector. Especially now that there seems to be some questions about exactly what the inspector is looking for.
I agree that differences between men and women (actual or perceived) are not relevant here, but it would be better if the person performing the work were the one to talk to the inspector. Especially now that there seems to be some questions about exactly what the inspector is looking for.
Now aren't you assuming that I'm the one doing all the work? My wife and I actually do most of these kinds of projects (framing) toghether. There is some question as to what exactly the BI wants because he was unsure himself. He is supposed to write up some sort of report detailing exactly what we need to do to get the deck amnestied. He couldn't tell us when that would be done unfortunately.
One thing the wife didn't do was introduce herself to the BI and get his full name. I think if you don't let them be anon. they are less likely to screw with you.
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
No, I wasn't assuming that at all. I was merely agreeing with the poster who said that the person doing the work should be the one talking to the BI. If that's neither of you or both of you, then my comments don't apply.
I think that maybe the underlying message here is figure out what type of person the BI is and what they look for and cater to that. This being a small town with a small building dept if I cross one BI I've crossed them all and all the permit techs and the plan check engineers and the zoning planners, hell even the receptionist. My goal is to remain friendly and polite with everyone even though they are'nt using any lube when they bend me over a barrel. Though I have to admit it is getting harder to smile and say, 'thank you sir may I please have another!!!'
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
If you were a client I'd suggest using ipe wood to rebuild the portion of the deck that's over the setback and check with the inspector to see if that flies. Ipe doesn't burn and is rated as such. It also turns a grayish color if not painted or stained and wouldn't match exactly, but wouldn't look out of place.
It could be that they are requiring the one hour partition wall as a way of getting you to cut the deck back and if they won't budge on the one hour wall they won't care if it's made of steel, ipe, concrete or other wood.
On the side of your house that's over the setback and they are requiring a one hour fire wall, it is common to use type x (fire rated) sheetrock and it never seemed like a good idea to me, although there are the gypsum pannels made for exterior wall use http://www.usg.com/navigate.do?resource=/USG_Marketing_Content/usg.com/web_files/products/prod_details/SHEETROCK_Brand_Gypsum_Sheathing.htm
Good luck
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
Ask the building inpector if the bbq and the gigantic proane tank has anything to do with the notion of an exterior firewall, which quite frankly is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. However, knowing that it came out of a building inspector, I'm not surprised.
Dave
Ask the building inpector if the bbq and the gigantic proane tank has anything to do with the notion of an exterior firewall, which quite frankly is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. However, knowing that it came out of a building inspector, I'm not surprised.
Ha, yea having the bbq and the propane tank out there might not of been the wisest move ever....since we don't have a working interior stove we are using it to do most of our cooking...pizzas, nacho's, bread, etc.
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer