Boss,
The attatched photo is from the local paper a few months ago.
If you can see the photo well, would you care to comment on these trusses? You guys do stuff like this??
My biggest question would be concerning what seems to be a terrible waste of space where all of the webbing is in the upper part of the truss.
Always like to learn something new.
Eric
I Love A Hand That Meets My Own,
With A Hold That Causes Some Sensation.
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Replies
Cropped pic
You got something against horses??I Love A Hand That Meets My Own,
With A Hold That Causes Some Sensation.
no...
good eating if they're prepared right....
and that's after the beast of burden and transportaion thing...
good hide glue and jello...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
I don't.
The person you offend today, may have been your best friend tomorrow
Thanks Rez. I mean Luka, Ruka, Rezk aaahhhhhhhhh fergit it, it's late.
EricI Love A Hand That Meets My Own,
With A Hold That Causes Some Sensation.
They're big trusses, but not at all unusual.
You're right that there's a lot of space up there in the trusses. But is it really wasted? If the owner didn't want to use the space, that's their choice.
If there had been a 2nd floor in the barn, they would have had to go to a flat ceiling and likely add some posts. That would have dramatically changed the barn.
The owners got the outside look they wanted, the inside look they wanted, and no interior supports. So I don't think it's automatically wasted space.
I agree Boss...
There seems to be two types in here...the space squeezers and truss users.
The space squeezers seem to think that it's wise to squeeze every last cubic foot out of every enclosed space. The truss users seem to understand that clearspanning adds significant design options down below in the premium floor space.
I'm a huge fan of trussed roof systems and I've never given a second thought to the added cubic space that "could of " been usuable. Quite frankly, I don't get that excited about using it. If I want an additional 200sf of house, I'll just add a 10 x 20 room...and create more dead attic space.
In my lifetime, I've witnessed the re-evolution of very interesting big houses with huge soaring intricate roof lines. I started on routine relatively flat roofs, which are easily stickframed and now work on roofs and ceiling systems that would be impossible to stick frame. The huge volumous roofs and the exterior designs are not just the property of the ultra wealthy, but available to blue collar workers.
I like the more creative roofs that modern technology has made possible. I also like the intricate brickwork that has made a revival.
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
i would love to see an example of one that could`t be stick frame blue , have ya got any....
Yes. Can you stick frame a 40' x 40' great room with pan/stepped ceilings?
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
Blue why is it when we see hurricane damage on the news, they always show houses that have been knocked down and trusses layin all over the place.....lol
Shavey, there's a distinct possibilty that more houses are built with trusses, therefore they will be damaged more.
But it's probable that conventionally framed houses are smaller spans and therefore less likely to sustain damage. It's no secret that a house with a 60' x 60 great room would be more likely to sustain damage than a 12 x 12 x 7 house.
My only point is that trusses allow builders to build in ways that never was possible with conventional framing. Large rooms for conventional framers are 18 x whatever. Large rooms for trusses are 40 x whatever.
I've set a lot of clearspan 30+' trusses.
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
I have seen would frames fall in to the ocean on the news in one pieceduring hurricanes,and what is the big deal about the long spans, is that what all the homeowners ask for down your way.Even if you have big spans you still have to make rooms unless your making a dance hall of something .And posts in my opinion are not all bad they are there for a purpose and most of them serve that purpose extremely well for over a hundred years. Lots of the houses around hear are 3 storie house`s not really practical to uses trusses in a situtuation like that and yes i know it can be done but very few will do it.Most of the framers i know put things up to stay their pride hangs on there work.Me and the guy that i work with took an existing house that was 18 ft wide with no cellar and 36 ft deep added 18ft more to the side of the house with a foundation below went up with a second storie over that cut the existing roof off the main house right down to the ceiling joists and framed in a 10 pitch roof over the whole structure and turned the place into a garrison if you could have see the look on the home owners face (a young couple with kids that had no space at all) when they saw how much room was in the attic their jaws just dropped and when they saw the new full cellar under the side addition their jaws dropped again.Now seeing things happen like that on the jobs we do brings on a fantastic feeling.but had we put trusses up there we would have cheated them out of all that room.
Shavey, it sounds like you really made that young couple happy. I love when that happens.
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
If you can stick frame that Shavey....then could you stick frame a 60' x 60' great room?
Remember...I don't want any posts or bearing points in it.
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
It was 2 floors before the fire. That's why I asked.
Thanks Boss
A space squeezer. A builder I knew said; "if it's under a roof, you want to be able to use it!"
EricI Love A Hand That Meets My Own,
With A Hold That Causes Some Sensation.
"It was 2 floors before the fire."
That does make things a bit different. They've changed the style of the building significantly.
Whether changing the style is wrong is a whole 'nother arguement...
A Freudian slip is when you say one thing but mean your mother.
ron
I have to agree about the so called wasted space.
It took me forever to learn to let go of some spaces....
I always "needed" to use all space that existed but as in Japanese paintings, you learn that empty spaces are as important as the ones with "stuff".....it balances out the existance of life within....as without....know what I mean? Course you do.
Be within you without you
andyThe secret of Zen in two words is, "Not always so"!
When we meet, we say, Namaste'..it means..
I honor the place in you where the entire universe resides,
I honor the place in you of love, of light, of truth, of peace.
I honor the place within you where if you are in that place in you
and I am in that place in me, there is only one of us.
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
If it's an historic 'old' barn, wouldn't it have been timber framed, originally? That would support the roof and allow for more open height. That is an awful lot of volume consumed by the trusses.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
if it is truley old I'd think you would be right but I think you should ask Boss Hog.The secret of Zen in two words is, "Not always so"!
When we meet, we say, Namaste'..it means..
I honor the place in you where the entire universe resides,
I honor the place in you of love, of light, of truth, of peace.
I honor the place within you where if you are in that place in you
and I am in that place in me, there is only one of us.
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
It took me forever to learn to let go of some spaces...."Andy,
And that comes from a guy who just stick framed his roof vs. trusses for the added space LOL. Couldn't help myself.
BTW, Me and the miss's are checking out for the second time that investment property we're looking into. Scary if we actually get it. .....Responsibility.
Jon
Jon
I've never used a truss in my entire life but I can understand why people do...different strokes for different folks.Where's the property you might get??? and when are you coming back here??
####The secret of Zen in two words is, "Not always so"!
When we meet, we say, Namaste'..it means..
I honor the place in you where the entire universe resides,
I honor the place in you of love, of light, of truth, of peace.
I honor the place within you where if you are in that place in you
and I am in that place in me, there is only one of us.
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Where's the property you might get??? and when are you coming back here??"
Andy,
Was looking at a 12 unit in West Bend. 80% 2 bedrooms. 36 years old. NO WAY would I buy the place. 36 years of deferred maintenance and a bunch of REALLY REALLY scary tenants. It's a shame cause it was the worst property in a pretty good area, but way over my head. Here's a pic of the place. For NY vs. WI perspective. They're asking $770K. Honestly isn't worth a dime over $500K, and that's a stretch, And all the tenants would have to be kicked out, and a quickie reno of the entire building done. Original EVERYTHING. including the dirt.
View Image
Spend a good 2 hours after with my broker though, who is a relative/friend/developer. See what happens.
I'll be in NY X-mas time for 3 days. Don't know the dates off the top of my head. Have to ask my wife. Maybe I'll see ya' then if time permits.
Jon
Jon
Looks like you could make some dough with rentals from that crib....That's probably why they want so much.
Just tell em' that interest rates are climbing therefore the price needs to come down drastically...not to mention its at a major intersection which isn't terribly appealing and whatever needs to be done inside.
Hopefully will catch a glimpse of you here this XMAS.
KAtrina and me are staying put...no vacations this year other than some weekend trip to ski if even that.
Be well
####The secret of Zen in two words is, "Not always so"!
When we meet, we say, Namaste'..it means..
I honor the place in you where the entire universe resides,
I honor the place in you of love, of light, of truth, of peace.
I honor the place within you where if you are in that place in you
and I am in that place in me, there is only one of us.
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Looks like you could make some dough with rentals from that crib....That's probably why they want so much."
Andy,
Absolutely. The problem is the tenant base. To make real money one would have to kick everybody out (everybody in the building smokes and 1/2 don't have there heat on, and 1/2 are relatives on the current owner [sons and grandchildren]). The the rental $#'s they supplied me with are BS. Then it needs a new roof, appliances, water heaters, furnaces, paint, carpet, cabinets, counters, sinks, etc, etc. I would need professional crews (subs) to go in and do the work so it would get done quickly.
THEN, would need to be quickly re-rented on a unit by unit basis as each gets done.
I still haven't discounted the notion of buying it. But......,I'm going to keep looking.
Jon
Edited 12/13/2004 5:44 pm ET by WorkshopJon
it simply all comes off the price theyre asking....I'm sure "everyone" else that'd want to buy it would feel the same so....The secret of Zen in two words is, "Not always so"!
When we meet, we say, Namaste'..it means..
I honor the place in you where the entire universe resides,
I honor the place in you of love, of light, of truth, of peace.
I honor the place within you where if you are in that place in you
and I am in that place in me, there is only one of us.
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
it simply all comes off the price theyre asking"
Maybe Andy,
That one is definitely a high maintenance property. With a live-in "manager/handy person" you could continue to squeeze every dime left out of the place....and it would continue to deteriorate with the caliber of the tenants. One unit was occupied by a guy whose furnishings consisted of nothing more than two milk crates on which to hold up a TV, a folding chair, and a mattress on the floor.
The thing is, I personally don't need another project, but yeah, for the right price, I might take something like that on.
Wish I brought my digi cam last visit. I loved the managers comment about the water heaters being "newer" when I asked how old they were....10 years.
Anyways, right now my wife want's something "turn key" so time will tell.
Jon
Jon
I had a few rental houses I renovated/built........
I HATE being a landlord even when things go perfectly.....something about it that doesnt sit well with me.I'd rather build/renovate/restorate and live in and sell.....just don't need more things to think about other than what I want to think about.
Weird, huh?
####The secret of Zen in two words is, "Not always so"!
When we meet, we say, Namaste'..it means..
I honor the place in you where the entire universe resides,
I honor the place in you of love, of light, of truth, of peace.
I honor the place within you where if you are in that place in you
and I am in that place in me, there is only one of us.
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Actually Andy, you're very smart to recognize that you don't want to landlord. I don't want to landlord either...I'm not that keen on managing people...especially renters (I'm thinking of some people I know that I'd probably have to ...........well....it's too mean of a thought.)
One of the common mistakes that new real estate investors make is automatically thinking that they need to become landlords to realize the benefits of real estate investing. Nothing could be farther from the truth. There are many, many ways of using real estate as a wealth building vehicle and you wisely have chosed one that suits your personality.
And the taxe benefits are awesome doing exactly what you're doing....500k tax free every two years for you and your wife!
Congrats to you Andy.
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
I should have posted this to you in that other thread ;
Ive done buying and selling , live in and sell and move, bought and built rentals . So, theres three right there not counting working for the public.
You mention and have mentioned landlording. Well,.... before I did it seems like everyone told me horror stories about renters. They would tear up the house and not pay and you cant get them out.
You are painting a picture too. Just that your apprehensive.
I just wanted to tell you that nothing I heard before is farther than the truth. Ive had some damage , but I could have intercepted some of it. People pay or they are forced to move out. The have always moved. Ive called the police once to evict the same day. I believe people have problems when they listen to stories instead of collecting money. I collect money. Bankers dont want stories. Comes Friday and the crew wants paid, they wont work the second week with out pay. Rent is due on the 1rst by 5 pm. If you dont have it , move. No big deal. Im not a bank , just a landlord.
I dont have any problems thats any bigger than yours. Dont be afraid of rental property. Its a good business thats a long term job. It is a job that you have tend to and thats where most people fail. They sit back and collect rent and dont manage it.
Tim Mooney
I love the property . I wish it were here.
Jon , sometimes you have to play with them for a while before they get to thinking about what you are thinking . Kinda like a woman, never mind.
Offer them 300 and watch the response. Act serious to anyone involved. Wait 2 weeks and offer 325 and so on. Proceed very slowly up to 500.
Its worked several times [7or8] for me , but Ive opened property up for others a bunch of times. [over 20] It always brings it down , but you never know whose going to the table with it. What will happen when you do it is show interrest to other realators to call their buyers. I wish it could be secret , but its not. By the time you make an offer , 20 realators will know it by days end. It will start activity every time . Others will make offers too if theres interrest. My only hope the property would be bad enough not to stir financial interrest other than mine. The worse they are , the better I like them. Ive got nose plugs.
Tim Mooney
Tim Mooney
Ive got nose plugs. "
Tim,
Sure you haven't seen the place too. LOL. There was one unit that smelled so bad we only walked in for a couple seconds. Geez the stench. How can people live that way?
Jon
Jon...what are the numbers on that investment property. If you want, post them in the biz section in a new thread. It might be interesting to digest the ROI and cashflow...you might learn a new negotiating tactic...
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
Blue,
#'s aren't everything sometimes, but any advice on negotiating you could share with us I'm sure would be appreciated.
About the #'s thing, So much depends on who you partner with, personal income and tax shelter needs, and how expenses can be manipulated over and above cash flows and revenue streams.
WSJ