*
Lowes, eh?
$45 worth of Belwith “brushed nickle” cabinet knobs; so far so good, but a little odd looking with the original brass hinges, so back for the matching hinges.
NO MATCHING HINGES!
To be fair to Lowes, Belwith responded to my e-mail with a very formal “Belwith does not offer hinges in that finish.”
Wouldn’t it seem logical that if you offer hardware for one side of the door in a certain finish…you’d offer the other side as well!!??
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Replies
*
Lowes, eh?
$45 worth of Belwith "brushed nickle" cabinet knobs; so far so good, but a little odd looking with the original brass hinges, so back for the matching hinges.
NO MATCHING HINGES!
To be fair to Lowes, Belwith responded to my e-mail with a very formal "Belwith does not offer hinges in that finish."
Wouldn't it seem logical that if you offer hardware for one side of the door in a certain finish...you'd offer the other side as well!!??
*
Well gee, maybe if guys like you went to Lowe's FIRST, not "after
trying all of the suppliers in my area," they'd have better stuff! HD
has a variety of Bostich, Paslode, and PC collated fasteners, but
an -odd- combination. Like, it's better to make do with what they
have and not be picky... But I know excess inventory kills
businesses with small margins. So they carry the one nailer, but
not the 40 different nails that fit in it.
Sorry for the bad experience. Cheap fasteners bite. I have only
found one supplier here who carries hot-dipped roofing nails --
for my little but shallow-slope roof -- everyone uses the cheapest
electrogalvinized they can find.
*
I had a similar experience at Lowe's. I was making a 30 amp extension cord. They carried a 30 amp female connector, but no matching 30 amp male connector (or maybe it was the other way around; I don't remember).
I've also noticed the "made in Korea" nails. Some nails of the same brand are marked "made in USA". At least they're marked.
I guess unusual things can be expected in a retail world driven by marketing statistics...
*Bought a padlock at Lowe's for our gate. Went back to have extra keys made. They said they can't make an extra for that lock be/c it's too new and they haven't updated their blanks.
*
I guess in all fairness I should point out Lowes finer point: Low priced tools.
*Normally, when it comes to purchasing building materials, I avoid Lowes at all costs. First of all I don't like going to a yard that I can't pull my truck up close to the stack of wood I'm selecting from. And secondly, I priced out their "Top Choice" 2x4x8s'. Lowes price $3.48. Local old time lumberyard 2x4x8s' $2.68 and better quality.
*Mad Dog,Oddly enough the tools are what I try and steer clear from regardless of their price. As much as I hate seeing all the great local lumber yards and mom and pop hardware stores dissappear, I would miss my tool and fastener suppliers even more. I like my paslode nails, and I can get them at the big boxes in a bind. My fastener guy beats their price and brings them right to me, can't beat that. Well yeah, I guess you can, he services my tools on the spot when he brings me nails. Oh, and he gives me a loaner if it needs to go in the shop. I think he even stopped and picked me up lunch once. Gotta love him.Tom
*I have found my best selection of fasteners at the small lumberyards. They have a better margin on the nails than they do the guns and are willing to keep more in stock. I'm especially loyal to one yard, and have told them my preferance in specialty nails. They keep a box or two of even stainless nails knowing that they won't be hung with them and it helps them when somebody off the street happens to want that same product. Gives them a good reputation as a full line supplier.Even when I'm working out of my area I've found the small yards to have the better selections.For my business I avoid the big boxes with a passion. I don't promote my business as being the lowest price and won't take my business to such companies that feature price over service.I feel that we will have a much harder go of it as the small yards give way to the boxes.
*Good point. But you have to compare small yards to each other as well. There is one yard here that is a big box wannabe, called Harmons. Their prices are rediculous. I will buy something there only if they are the only place open, and/or they are the only one's to have the item. Two examples... They wanted 200 dollars for a piece of culvert pipe that I got for 100 dollars just by driving an extra 20 miles. And, they charged me 9 dollars for a file that I later found less than 2 miles down the road for ONE dollar.On the other hand, a yard called Chinook in Monroe is an excelent yard. Their prices are a lot of the time cheaper than anywhere else, and I am amazed at the quality of the lumber I get there. I would be willing to pay a lot more for this quality, yet I pay less than for the twisty-cup-warps at the bigbox. I try to do ALL my business there. I don't think I pay, after the average, any more than at any other place, and I am happy to do my part to help keep them in business.Both are 'small yards'.
*Well, this is an old debate...The lumberyards & material suppliers around here rarely beat HD on price, but they often do on quality or selection because they specialize while HD's are all the same. If HD has the same item, it will be cheaper there, often by a lot. The service at the yards is almost always better, free delivery, people who recognize you, etc. HD is 24/7, usually on my way somewhere else, and I can often get in and out faster -- saving an hour I could be working or with my family is worth a lot to me. Then there's mail order.... (hmm, I just found hot-dip galv. roofing nails at doitbest.com ... )The better lumberyards will compete, there are many benefits to being smaller and specialized rather than a lumbering giant. I intend to start doing more business with them by phone and fax; and I'd love it if they'd put their inventories/prices online so I wouldn't have to waste time on hold or waiting for a return fax to appear.There's room for different kinds of suppliers. Notice that by implication Mad Dog is telling Lowes to improve their service, not just to go to hell!
*I use the bigbox for items with a recognizable name that are too simple to be screwed up, like a tube of latex caulk. My local paint store beats me to death on some of those items, though I still stick with them on all paint items since they actually know how to tint paint and you see the same face two weeks in a row. I know the high markup on some of the accessories is how they manage to afford their county club memberships, but they could do a little better on some of those incidentals. And most of the time I stay with my old fashioned high price suppliers simply because they recognize that I am in business and not just acting out weekend fantasies, the bigbox "Contractor Only" checkout is a hoax and really a slight against the professionals who do shop there from time to time since all the weekend warriors line up there thinking I don't know what -maybe the register at that checkout has a special discount built into it. So, I use 'em for a few things only if: 1) They are lowest price.2) The item is on the shelf and assistance is not required.3) They are on the way to a job, no going out of my way even a block to give them a nickle.4) It is late and my normal suppliers are closed for the day.Basically, DIY spending accounts for a huge part of the materials market, believe it or not. The big boxes are focused on the non-professional and will never seriously set themselves up to serve the professional. If you notice, they are really working against the professional in many ways. Offering installation,selling essentially "seconds grade" merchandise that looks like the real thing such that the trade professional has to take time and energy to explain to customers why their project is not going to come out of the big box. They handle enough "real" stuff to make this arguement difficult at times. So, I have wasted time to get prices from them on something (not always easy) and get the same thing priced out at my supposedly overpriced supply house to find out that overpriced supply house isn't so greedy after all. Sorry for the rambling,I guess my overall impression is that the remodeling industry has not fared better for the arrival of big boxes on many fronts. Hope I don't sound like too much of pig, but the sign at my supply houses that says: "Tradespeople will be served first!" or similar to that effect is allright by me. I have not been in this business 21 years to stand behind a line of DIY's. Funny thing is that when I am buying something purely for home use, weed killer or such, I don't mind the line. But I expect to be treated differently and better when I am doing business.
*Late last year a corporation was caught selling imported goods in boxes marked "Made in the USA". After getting caught, their defense? The boxes were made in the USA.
*As a framing contractor the outfits I deal with are lumber yards, industrial supply houses and tool stores. For me it all comes down to service, I just don't have any enthusiasm for dealing with the lack of knowledge that seems to prevail at the big boxes. I like dealing with professionals that know their job and their products. My favorite tool store is always more expensive than than Home Depot or Lowe's, but they take time to get me the best tool for the job and sometimes arrange for a on site demo if possible. They repair any broken tools quickly and competently. My favorite lumber yard has sent me out ten sheets of OSB on one day's notice, a 60 mile round trip for them. This kind of service helps me to concentrate on running my business and the jobs at hand. I often tell prospective clients that if you're looking to save money, I'm not your guy. If you want a smooth job, competently done give us a call. So naturally I try to surround myself with businesses that operate the same way.
*Thanks for the implication explanation Andrew.
*Err, was I wrong? :) Didn't mean to pose as a mind-reader, esp. of someone named "mad dog."The more I've learned listening to you guys, the less time I've spent at HD.
*No,you're right.
*I deal with lowes and home depot on a daily basis, but for odds and ends. They are great. But for materials my lumber yards, door company, tool company etc.You just have to learn not to expect service from these places, and use them for whatever it is worth. Not really my style, but can't pass up the savings. Got a 3 month old little girl and visions of private school dancing in my head!!!!!
*It's the lawyer in me. :)
*"I intend to start doing more business with them by phone and fax..."That'll be the biggest time saver you can imagine, esp when you develop a "relationship" to ensure stable pricing and quality of goods.Order your materials tonight (fax after hours), they'll be on the job site by noon tomorrow. Takes five minutes. They pick/load/deliver/unload.
*Yup. Haven' t gottn used to the idea of ordering thousands of dollars' worth of stuff without even talking to someone. Last year we essentially purchased our van online. They gave me the price I wanted less $200 for an "internet discount"! So I wish the lumberyards would go online to confirm quantity, selection ("sorry, we only stock redwood in butt-ugly all-sap...") -- anyway, it would attract my piddly business.Home Depot offers fax ahead, but I haven't tried it because I'm not sure what would be waiting for me! ("No, see, I wrote 2x4x8 ... not 8x4x2 ....")P.S. Mad Dog &/or anyone who cares -- I solved my nail problem -- Maze and its distributors sell mail order if you're in a bind, priced by the pound in whatever quantity you want (50# boxes, $5 fee to break one).... They ship same day, and overnight if you want ... but nails-by-air is a little expensive!
*Having been part of a Mom & Pop lumber yard in my youth, I understand why the big box stores will succeed and the mom & pop's will go out of business. It's because of the service. Those ten sheets of OSB didn't earn enough to pay for the truck, let alone the driver. We always had to do it cause we were afraid. Afraid to piss off customers, Afraid that someone would trash our reputation and we would lose potential customers, and afraid that if we didn't some other poor starving lumber yard would take it away. So we smiled and said yes sir, evan when it didn't make business sense. Everyone was shocked when we declared bankruptcy. They thought we were always so busy, how could we lose money? It's the same as the contractor that has to work for free cause the profit gets eaten up by the little things. Those big box stores at least have the clout to force the contractor to be professional about his demands.
*Up to now, the competition between big-boxes here has been between Home Despot and Eagle.Lowes just bought Eagle.Guess I'd better get all the hardware and fasteners I need before they actualy change hands.
*Don't know if you folks have ORCO supply houses where youre at, but the one I use stocks maze nails at decent prices. The cool thing was that the guy that I talked to at Maze was the one that clued me in to it. Saved me a ton in shipping.
*
As a Korean, I will say one thing for the HD: it allows all kinds of people to do business. You don't have to know the name for a ball-valve, for example, to go there and pick it off the shelf. You don't have to deal with teen-age counter clerk who knows "Wallboard saw" but not "sheetrock saw" and pretends you got the wrong name. I yelled when HD used to keep a file of people who returned the stuff, but to me, HD represents democracy.
*
The Maze rep was great. Even having 25 lbs. of nails shipped
UPS ground wasn't all that expensive, and probably cost about
the same as getting them from a distributor that would've had to
special-order them anyway.
*Lowes opened in our town and the mom and pops got scared and closed before they had a chance to compete. This is the Lowes that does the following:1) Sells brass nuts and bolts in selected sizes but not washers - all the help say plated washers work fine with brass!2) Sells electrical tape by the roll at .59 each but a "bargin pack" of 4 rolls for $2.99! and the good 3M "33" electircial tape is more expensive that the 2 electrical supply houses in the area!3) Sells various house wrap products but doesn't carry the tape for the seams/penetrations!4) Counts each nut and bolt while the farm supply store up the street sells the same items by the pound!5) Doesn't stock box/bulk containers of fasteners like #12 wood screws - bubble packs only.A new wood working store opened in the area and several major power tool reps at the opening stated their major markets are not the serious/industrial/builder users but the customers of big box stores. They're dumbing down (read making cheaper) their tools because their major customer group doesn't need the tools they formerly made.I'm a member of a $5M church building committee and I'm including the clause in our contracts that if any of our contractors or subs are seen in a big box store, they will be monetarily penalized and the product will have to be removed and replaced with product from an industrial supplier.
*
Regardless of feelings for the big stores, they are something of a necessary evil. However,working for a clown who tries to tell me where to buy materials or tools is not! Next you'll tell me I gotta pay a fine for eating lunch at Wendy's just 'cause you like McDonald's!
*
What I like about these "big box stores" is that I can return just about anything I've got the guts to walk up to the return desk with. Actually, I am quite honest about returning stuff, but here's a little story: Neighbor 'A' buys a leaf blower from a bigbox. Uses it for a year. Neighbor 'B' borrows the leaf blower is too dumb to know that it's a 2 cycle engine and puts regular gas in it - burns up the engine. Neighbor 'A' is pretty pissed, but says "no problem" and returns the leaf blower to the bigbox as defective - no receipt - and gets a new one. Wow! Talk about caholaes!!
The strange things about these "big box" stores is they really don't cater to people who build for a living. Try dropping off a set of plans for a quote on a framing package. Or, who want's to buy "prime choice" 2x10 - 16s that are more twisted and expensive than what you get from a real lumberyard? Or: "$17,000 material purchase? There will be a $35 delivery fee on that sir." Want to buy 300 sheets of Sheetrock? No problem. Of course they don't offer inside delivery so ya gotta carry it in the house your self! Need 33 custom order windows? "Sorry Sir, I won't have time to get you a price on those windows for several days. Why don't you see if we have some in stock that you can use." Weird!!!
*
The big box stores are amazing. We have a couple of new one here where I live, Lowe's and HD. They opened with what was called their "grand opening team." They are the best and brightest people, example, department managers, assistant store managers and their best customer service representatives These reps stick around for around six weeks and help train the new hires. You have a real warm fuzzy when you first visit the store everyone has a lot of knowledge about things. Later, all the new hires start hitting you up to fill out a comment card so they will get an at-a-boy from management and move up the ladder. The problem is when I go to a department there is never anyone there to help me They are always in a meeting, which is another word for training.
They are never available to help. Anyway after six weeks all the best and bright folks are gone and I am stuck with the guy that is just out of his meeting. I wish they all had better customer service.
*
I was recently doing some porch repair and was needing some 2" galvanized ring shank nails for my Bostitch Framing nailer. After trying all of the suppliers in my area without any luck I was told to try Lowes. After looking at all of their Bostitch fasteners, all I could come up with was smooth shank until one of the employees suggested that I should try the Grip Rite brand. He was sure that they had the fastener I was needing in that brand and that it was manufactured to exceed Bostitch specs. He also said that Grip Rite would save some money as it would be less expensive than Bostitch brand.
Well, without much choice I bought em. Got on the job , loaded em in my nailer, and was ready to go to work. My only problem now is that for about every 5 fasteners shot, only one will have the head in tact. On all the others, the heads come off. I even tried adjusting my nailer so that the nail head wouldn't countersink, and the heads still came off.
After reading the box, I found out that these fasteners are made in Korea. Boy was I hot. First off, the job I was on is located 23 miles from the Lowes store. I now took em back and asked the manager why if they sell Bostitch nailers do they not sell an assortment of Bostitch fasteners. His reply was he didn't know for sure. Perhaps it's because Bostitch fasteners are too high priced and don't sell well.
Well let me tell ya. If you figgure the expense I had in high priced gas and lost time going back and forth, them Korean Grip Rites probably cost way more than the Bostitch. Come on Lowes! If you're gonna sell the nailers sell the fasteners too! How about it? Anyone else ever have this problem? Comments?
*
I realize now that this is the counterpart to the FAQ -- a running commentary thread that can easily be around forever.
I'm glad the big boxes exist. I'm glad the lumberyards exist. At least in this market, neither is going to wipe out the other.