I was folding laundry early this morning and saw a how-to show on putting ceramic tile in a kitchen. The hosts were installing hardibacker over the top of sheet vinyl by smearing mastic on the back of the sheets with a flat trowel. The sheets were then screwed down. The guy mentioned that they were putting the sheets over the existing vinyl floor because they said removing it was just “too hard”. The large floor tiles were then installed in mastic with a notched trowel.
Gotta say that was the first time I had seen floor tiles laid in mastic.
As far as not ripping up the sheet vinyl, I think he just didn’t want to get his Hawaiian shirt dirty.
i love these shows………
carpenter in transition
Replies
then what is mastic used for.
kitchen backsplashes over drywall.
wainscot wall tile over drywall in a bathroom outside of the wet areas.
our tilesetter never uses mastic on a floor.
don't think i ever asked him why.
carpenter in transition
Thin set is generally used on floors, and mastic on walls.
Walker1
Spend a day at HD and just listen to all the viewers who saw something on TV and think they can do it at home! I had a lady ask what GLUE I would recommend for gluing down ceramic tile. I told her she means mortar, and she said no, GLUE, like PL400 or Liquid Nails. I told her she couldn't and took the tile out of her cart. She storms off.
Another time it was a lady who asked where the carpet is that goes on walls? None, why? She saw on HGTV where the designer put carpet on the walls and they came to Depot to get it, so where is it? Or the lady who wanted waterproof caulk because water was leaking through the ceiling and she was having a party and the guests were holding buckets everywhere. Wound up selling her ice melt to burn through the ice dams on roof. (Told her to put it in an old pair of pantyhose and nearly got slapped)
As to the mastic question, mastic is alot like rubber cement, it is an air dry product. It is typically used for wall tile over drywall (backsplash etc.) but most are NOT for wet areas (showers). It also has limitations as to the size of tile it can be used with.
Mortar is cement like that used with bricks. It will chemically harden and become water impervious, just not waterproof. It should always be used on floors and anywhere there will be water.
Watching the various TV shows on home improvement and woodworking are for entertainment purposes only, and they sure can be entertaining. Just don't try anything they do at your house without researching the correct way. I don't think I'd let Dean, Bob, Roy or many of the others on one of my jobs without handcuffs and a gag.
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
I don't think I'd let Dean, Bob, Roy or many of the others on one of my jobs
Right on Hammer, especially that klutz Vila...
But that said, I'd enjoy being on a job with Robin Hartel.
> ... I'd enjoy being on a job with Robin Hartel.
If you watch carefully, you'll notice that Robin does most of the lengthy explanations. My understanding is that she was a SAG actress, and they hired her because she was good at learning and delivering those long monologues. Dean was blowing too many takes and putting them into OT.
-- J.S.
I'llbe glueing end grain blocks in my kitchen with Bostics over vinyl...why not? It is a VB and not likely to be a prob. cuz it is really well adhered to the luaun beneath it.
I learned it here tho', not on HGTV...(G).
Last time I glued a floor down it was recycled chestnut , 3/8ths thick about 2.5 wide in a herring bone with cut nails as accents ( face nailed) .
I still have remnants of that damm glue on a pair of shorts....
No, I'd not apply tile with it, thinset is a helluva lot more cheeper and forgiving.
edit: You FOLD laundry? What ever happened to roll it and stuff it?
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
And you thought you could ignore balloon knot.
Edited 8/7/2005 7:47 am ET by SPHERAMID
not defending the cheesy shows that encourage anyone to go out and do hairbrained things to their home, but-- as far as putting new flooring over old vinyl, i have heard that it's a legit method from multiple sources. sometimes the old adhesive (cutback?) contains asbestos and if you don't know when the floor was laid, you need to either use extreme safety precautions or else it's safer to just put down new subfloor and floor on top of what's there.
we don't have cable, but i have seen some really awful DIY ideas on those shows. it must be that the sponsors who sell home improvement materials figure that they'll make money twice- once when the HOs buy the "wall carpet", and then again when they realize what a huge mistake they made and have to repair or replace the walls.
Last night, I was watching a show on TLC called "Property Ladder". From what I could figure they follow people trying to flip there first property. Anyways, this episode featured a 23 year old bartender, who was using her bar fly buddies to remodel a condo in Long Beach.
What a joke. They spent 2 weeks stripping cabinet doors, then ended up buying all new ones for $450. They were cutting drywall with a circular saw. Setting tile in thinset the consistency of water. Cleaning up said thinset in her brand new under mount kitchen sink. She went 14 weeks past her timeline and WAY over her budget goals.
Of course in the end, she came out smelling like a rose, making $68,000 in 60mins with commercials.
I hate myself for watching it.
Edited 8/7/2005 9:22 am ET by dustinf
I wonder how much the TV producer pay her too.
I just saw that show last night and loved it! I especially liked the part where her bar-buddy told her cutting crown moulding was a "piece of cake". Then they show him making about five wrong cuts before they show him reading a book on how to install crown moulding. The girl never did stop smiling throughout the whole thing - even after she paid another "bar-buddy" to paint her cupboard doors and he disappeared with her money and the doors. I saw another one a few weeks ago where the home owner said she was told the little damp spot on the was was due to a minor water leak behind the dry wall, but it had been fixed. Then the floor finisher comes in to sand the floors and notices the floor is damp. They pull up a floor board and discover about 2 inches of standing water under the floor. If I ever had any notion about "flipping" a house, that show would cure me of that.
On the 4 or 5 shows of "Property Ladder" that I saw, all the real estate "experts" seem to be on the low side of the actual selling price. What ticks me off is that they never disclose what the "fees" are when they say "60K profit before fees".But, have you noticed how all the principals on the show are young and buff?
I hate myself for watching it.
Its kind of like watching an accident site. You just can't help it.
I'll second that it's not necessarly bad to put hardibacker over vinyl then tile... but the more important issue is whether the floor has enough support. Might want to do a deflection calc.
http://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/deflecto.pl
Kevin
"I'llbe glueing end grain blocks in my kitchen with Bostics over vinyl...why not? It is a VB and not likely to be a prob. cuz it is really well adhered to the luaun beneath it."
why not?
Because if it's typical "cushion backed" vinyl ... and ceramic tile over a CBU ... U just voided several warrenties ... and WILL be back 6 months to a year later either regrouting or doing the right thing and tearing it all up and doing it right.
down the road ... definite cracked ot loose tiles. Sooner or later ... it'll happen.
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
thanks, Jeff
that was the whole point. it was typical modern cushion backed vinyl over which they were installing the tile.
they also mentioned how they got lucky and didn't have to remove and reinstall the gas range. they just tiled under the front edge.
good enough, i guess.
by the way guys, you should read the Tile Council of America's recs on installing ceramic tile over sheet vinyl.
Not Approved.
carpenter in transition
Mine is wood, not tile ( sorry for the confusion) and my grout is sawdust and polyurethane and linseed oil, very flexible. Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
You think that's funny? Watch THIS!...I can only do it once tho'
I put ceramic tile over vinyl all the time as long as its sheet vinyl and not the square tile. It has to over a sub floor so I can screw the backer down.
It acts as a water barrier. If Im not mistaken I think Micheal Byrne in his book says its OK
As for liquid nails Ive used it for repairs. Ive used it for repairing tile edging on counter tops no problems as long as you use the right type.
Mastic under floor tiles..no way..Ive always used a modified thin set. I dont like mastic even the name M A S T I C..sends chills up my spine..:>) Buckism: Will show you the the way
This technique should work if the hardibacker was screwed down according to the installation instructions. Adding mastic (or an adhesive) sounds like overkill.
I certainly wouldn't try to just glue hardibacker to vinyl since the vinyl may not be firmly adhered to the underlayment. I recently ripped a kitchen floor where the tile had been laid directly on the old vinyl and it looked like the installer had used a 1/8" trowel to spread the thinset. About half of the old tiles popped off without breaking and several others came up with the vinly attached but I could see that it had never really adhered to the underlayment. If it hadn't had about a zillion staples in the underlayment, it would have been one of the quickest demolitions on record - lol.
The real problem may be getting the dishwasher in (or out). If additional flooring reduces the opening to less than 34", moving the dishwasher may become a real adventure.