Replies

1. 
   Guest_ | Apr 16, 1999 07:46am | #1

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   Sounds like alot of money to me for the upgrade. Check out on-demand water heaters for a reliable continuous supply of hot water. Spend the other $4000 on making sure your building envelope is efficient as possible. Or don't spend it at all-

1. 
   Guest_ | Apr 16, 1999 10:42am | #2

   *The spiffy high efficiency water heaters go for around $2300 and should be about $500 to install. Maybe he's taking a nice mark-up on the hardware. Other options include:An on-demand heater as Panel points out. About $500-800 plus installation (500?). Gives you unlimited water for one device at a time. Bigger ones could handle two devices. If it modulates its flames with the water flow, you'll get fairly even temps coming out. Except at very low flow - below where the flame kicks on.Even fancier: An on-demand heater feeding a standard electric water heater, unplugged. The tank serves to average out any flucuations in the instant heater and solves that low-flow problem. Cheapest approach: Two 40 gallon, 40,000 BTU/hour gas hot water heaters in series. You'll have 80 gallons ready to go and the upstream heater will kick on when you've still got 60+ gallons of hot water. Should you blow through all of that, the second heater can keep up because it is getting pre-heated water from the first heater. About $200 each plus installation. Call it $900 total. You've got 80,000 BTU/hour of burners (almost as much as an on-demand heater) and all that tankage. Happy Showers. -David

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   Guest_ | Apr 16, 1999 04:48pm | #3

   *Look into the Buderus boilers. Efficent, well built , easy to clean and about the same price as a Weil-Mclain. With a storage tank for DHW you will have all the hot water that you need and only one burner to maintain. (Reilo is my prefered burner)

1. 
   Guest_ | Apr 16, 1999 09:49pm | #4

   *JLC has an article in it's archives about hot water heaters vs. boilers for space heating. It is quite convincing for going with the hot water heater.What is "high efficiency" is this a 90+% efficient condensing combustion type deal? Actually I would guess it can't be that efficient due to heat extraction being limited by the return water temperature.-Rob

2. 
   Eric_H | Apr 17, 1999 06:10pm | #5

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   From some of the posts, I'm not sure I was clear that the boiler is in connection with a hydronic baseboard system. I'm just trying to get clear on the benefits of the "Veeseman" (sp?) high-efficiency boiler vs. a standard boiler for what will likely be a 5-zone system. The advice about the reserve hot water heaters I understand. Thanks. Eric.

1. 
   Eric_H | Apr 18, 1999 06:41am | #6

   *One last thing. The key feature of this special boiler is that it is "season-sensitive", adjusting water temp, etc. according to the time of year and climate. I think if I have an ample supply of hot water, though, the 5k may be better spent elsewhere.

3. 
   Guest_ | Apr 18, 1999 08:32am | #7

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   Eric, I may be off the mark here, but most applications incorporate an idea similar to what you described at a much lower cost.

   I use mostly in-floor radiant, and all systems use a thermocouple set outdoors, usually on the north side of the house. The thermocouple sends the current temp to a little "black box" inside, which notes the temp and trend and lead-turns the in-floor heating if required.

   It's not a significant additional cost item.

   This works 24/7, it works for cold snaps in summer and warm snaps in winter. Not based on "time of year" as you describe yours, only based on current temp and trend.

1. 
   Guest_ | Apr 19, 1999 05:16pm | #8

   *Eric,What is your fuel source? Oil, gas, LP???Ron

4. 
   Eric_H | Apr 20, 1999 05:50am | #9

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   Gas.

5. 
   Guest_ | Apr 20, 1999 05:10pm | #10

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   Since you are using gas, you have many more choices of good boilers. I feel Veeseman is WAY too expensive. I would recommend a storage tank on a zone from the boiler for your hot water. Spend a little extra money on good zone valves and pumps and 1/4 turn isolation and service valves instead of an overpriced boiler. When you select your boiler look for standard instead of proprietory controls and parts. Then take the money that you saved and put it into a well installed thermal envelope for the house. Going from the worst to the best boiler only saves you about 30%, but proper thermal details can save you over 80%.

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   Guest_ | Apr 21, 1999 06:33am | #12

   *I give you the information as a DIY so take it as needed. In the summer of '97 I installed two Burnham biolers that were rated as high efficiency I believe around 87% and two 40 or so gallon waterheaters that are headed by the Burhams on a second, priority zone. Now, I am well connected in the wholesale area, but my total cost for parts and materials for both systems was about 7,000. I did the labor myself as I was able to get permits. I am accustomed to showers longer than 15 minutes with hot water. On a single boiler, I have never run out of water - not even a hint of tepid water. It seems to me that the boilers are rated at about 110,000 Btu/hr. Also, when a second shower is taken immediately after mine, no problem.As for the automatic adjustment of water temperature, I don't have it, though it would not be that tough to do. It is just a double thermostadt which measures the inside and outside temperature (don't hold me to this, I have not looked at this in a long time, but Grainger would sell one). For myself, I just adjust the boiler temperature when it gets very cold. As far as I can tell, unless you really turn down the temp., it just affects the rate of tempeature recovery in the house. The brand you mention is not familiar to me, but I would suggest sticking with something that has standard parts that are easily available over the years. It is cheaper, and less frustrating.Hope this helps.Dennis

6. 
   Eric_H. | Apr 21, 1999 06:33am | #11

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   Building a 4k sq ft home with baseboard zoned heat and zoned a/c. My wife and I aren't into whirlpools, though we may install a regular bath in addition to the shower in the master bath, and we do want lots of available hot water for morning showers when all the kids are teenaged and going one after the other. Plumber suggests a high-efficency ["Veeseman?"] boiler, and adds almost 5 grand to his bid to include it. Is it worth the money, and how so?