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Tim,
I live in a historic district in a Michigan city (perhaps the same one as you). In the early 1970’s, a mumber of perfectly liveable older houses in my neighborhood were torn down to make room for several ugly multi-unit appartments. The neighbors got together to fight this trend and the result, several years later, was the passage of a historic district ordinance. Our neighborhood is not a fancy area. In fact, it was the first working class neighborhood so designated in the U.S.
In my opinion, the ordinance has worked well. It affects only exterior changes which are visable from the street. Usually, that means only the front facade but, since I own a corner lot, it affects two sides of my house. The ordinance is not very restrictive. It does not say anything about paint colors. Roof changes require a variance but, since virtually all houses have long ago replaced their cedar with asphalt, putting on a new asphalt roof does not require a variance. Personally, I’m not wild about vynle siding or replacement windows with false mullions but both of those are allowed.
Several years ago, I put on an addition to our house and the plans sailed through the Historic District Commission in 15 minutes. I’ve watched other commission meetings on the community access channel and the commission tends to bend over backwards to help homeowners come up with workable alternatives which will meet the guidelines. The folks who tend to have problems are usually newcomers to the neighborhood who think they ought to be able to do whatever they want to their homes no matter what their neighbors think, no matter how poorly their plans fit in with the rest of the neighborhood. I guess my feeling is that, for those folks, there are a lot of other neighborhoods with virtually no building guidelines. Personally, I wouldn’t want to live there.
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I live in a Michigan city where some historical districts already exist. There is currently a push by some in my local area to make the streets around my home into another historical district. The homes in my area vary in age (up to approx 110 years) and in architecture...every house is different.
I have seen the problems encountered on shows like "This Old House" when you want to change anything on your home. Has anyone had any experience either working as a contractor in areas governed by a Historical Commission or living in one. Some of the stories I've heard from local homeowners are not positive.
I would like to hear the good, the bad and the ugly. We have a hearing at city hall this comming Thursday (Jan 27th) and would like to be prepared.
I know for a fact that if the Historical commission required me to restore my house to it's original materials, I wouldn't be able to afford it. The siding is Cypres and the roof had cedar shakes (now an architectual grade asphalt shingle roof). Don't get me wrong, I would love to restore my house but at my OWN pace and with materials I choose. That's why I live in America!!
Please share your comments and experiences.
Tim
*Well, Tim, I think you're gonna hear a lot of opinions on this one. I've seen a bit of it from both sides of the fence, having served on the county planning commission and as chairman of the county's first comprehensive planning committee. As a contractor, I have clients in a historic district, and in communities with architectural review boards and with strong restrictive covenants. It seems to me that the average person feels he/she should have a large degree of freedom regarding what is done on or to his property. This same person may feel entirely differently about the freedoms to be enjoyed by neighbors. The review boards and committees generally consist of volunteers; some could have personal agendas, others could be jerks, and others might be highly qualified to fill thier roles, making informed and objective decisions and acting consistently. Personally, I've never had a problem with the folks I've dealt with, but my clients have had projects which were generally in "good taste", i.e., consistent with the neighboring architectural standards or restrictive covenants. Taste, in any case, is subjective, and it's the subjectivity of the process which can frustrate homeowners. My opinion? What we have here seems to work, but I cannot (and should not) tell you what's right for your community. May I suggest you talk with your city planning commission member(s) and city planning staff regarding how things might operate if your neighborhood was included in a historic district? Get the facts, not the paranoia. Show up at the meeting on the 27th and speak your mind in a knowledgable, rational, unemotional fashion that will set you apart from some of the flaming a**holes who will be ranting their pro's and con's. Having obtained the ear (and respect) of the city leaders, perhaps you may be selected to serve on the guiding committee if the the historic district comes to pass. Good luck, Steve
*Tim, we have designated historical districts here in Jacksonville and I would say that the powers that be are for the most part accommodating and fair. It's only been 25 years or so since some folks realized that the areas architectual heritage was rapidly going to the landfill or was just being left to deteriorate as folks left the area for the greener 'burbs. Eyesores were dropped in on vacant lots between magnificent and eclectic structures and remodelings were manytimes just slapped together.In addition, many of the fine old homes can only be viewed - as a photograph - in such publications as "Jacksonville's Architectual Heritage" by Wayne Wood. (Wayne is a good friend and a client).There are compelling arguments in favor of historical districts, not the least of which is the slipshod work that has desecrated yesterdays craftmanship.I really can't say it any better than Steve has already and you should, since you are directly affected, do your homework, talk to your neighbors and be involved.I don't know how your commission rules are written but the attached link is to the Jacksonville Historical Preservation Commission. If you look through it you may find information as well as other links you can use to bolster your knowledge of historical districts and maybe help you deal with or promote change if necessary. (See if your area has something like this online, too).http://www.coj.net/jhpc/default.htmComments? Ralph
*Steve, RalfThanks for the feedback. I understand where you're coming from. People tend to listen better if you are rational and treat people with respect instead of ranting and raving. As of yet, I don't know if there are any rules or by-laws written to govern this commission. This is what scares me the most! The only thing I do know is that it was stated that only the exterior of the house as viewed from the street would be governed. And then by the way this also applies to the interior of your house if it can be seen through a front window. So much for only the exterior. I wonder where it will end. We also already have fairly strict zoning ordinances, so I really don't see the need for further restrictions.Also the first meeting I went to at city hall was a farce. It was a required meeting of the commission investigating the feasibility of the Historical District. This meeting was held to hear all comments from the neighborhood on the subject. By the commissions own comments during the procedings it was clear they had made up their minds long before holding the meeting and they didn't care what was said either pro or con in the meeting. Also I was very surprised to see a picture of my house in a publication that was distributed prior to the meeting. A person hired by the "Historical Commission" took the picture without my permission and also trespassed to get the picture. The city attorney confirmed my suspisions that this was illegal. If this the way our commission will be run I suspect there will be a lot of friction.Also, even if the persons who are on the "planned" commission now have great intentions, what happens when they are no longer around and another group takes their place who don't care about the people in the neighborhood only preservation. Nobody can tell me what will happen then. Right now I have more questions than answers.I still welcome any further comments.Tim
*Personally, I would never own a house in a historical district. The few we have around here are very restrictive. If you want your house to be under some one else's control, go for it.When "zoning" some streets as historical around here, Home owners were assured that they would not be required to do the renovation work on their homes unless there was work being done anyway. I mean, you weren't required to install gingerbread work on your porch unless you were having the porch repaired anyway. You wouldn't be required to paint it in historical colors unless you were painting anyway. Three years later, the town went through the neighborhood and hand delivered notices to home owners telling them that the railings were incompatable with the neighborhood, that the roof needed to be slate, etc. It turned out they had no authority to do this but it made alot of people wish they had not gotten involved.My uncle owned a half double in town that he rented. He sold it within a couple of years because he couldn't afford to do the repairs the way the town wanted them done. It was, after all, only an investment property for him.The same "historical" regualtions have been placed on our down town shopping area to make us aquaint area to shop in. Half the stores in town are closed now (not because of the historical requirements) and a new Chinese restraunt opened down town. Our town should have been thrilled, everyone leaves but no one comes. They fined the restraunt $5,000 because they had a "OPEN" neon sign in the window. The restraunt was gone in a week.
*Tim, Ryan's point is well stated, and reflects upon the institutions we create. WE CREATE. There should be no "them" in government.Get involved. Now. Big, BIG time.Electrical Engineer, Carpenter and Woodworker? Hmmm, no degree in Historic Preservation, no degree in Art History, no degree in Government Studies, no degree in Egyptian Archiology... nope. NOT QUALIFIED TO SERVE.Or that's what the conventional logic would tell ya.Who better to ask about buried utilities? Construction materials and practices or Ornamental woodwork? If it's not you serving on the Historic District Commission, see to placing someone(s) with your kind of credentials in there. Study "conflict of interest, arbitrary and capricious, taking" as legal concepts... you already know about "trespass and copyright"!When your term expires, see to finding a replacement who's got good credentials, and a level head. Campaign for them.Or pack up and move the hell away... fast.
*.........if this is being pushed ..it's by people with an agenda....and time on their hands....no matter who makes up the original board , it will be replaced by people with an historic preservation agenda....and the 50's ranch house will have to conform to the same regs as the 100 year old Victorian... and they won't have to have any rules and regulations either to impose the will of the majorityu of that board on any applicant...think about it..an applicant comes in to ask for a variance on a new roof, the roof has always had asphalt shingles.. ad he can get it reroofed for $6000, 1st class...now the district regs say only slate ($20,000) or red cedar ($14,000) and the applicant can't afford it.. but they don't care...they interpret the rules.. and every MAY becomes SHALL...or there is no reg... just that 5 members have red cedar roofs and think every one should ... so the say ..sure go ahead.. put your addtion up ..but its got to have red cedar on the roof....."But you can't do that ...it's not in your regs!" and the typical response of a public board, out of control..is..".so sue us... we've got the town's money to hire lawyers....take us to court or do what we want and we'll give you our approval right now"As your community becomes more affluent, these are the personality tryhpes that take over the power boards..zoning...planning.. and historic district...they're appointed by the legislative body that runs your town.. and they are the supporters of the people who get elected to those offices... the only counter force to those boards is the Chamber of Commerce.. who usually don't want to take a public stand because they may offend some of their customers.. or a builder's association.. and they're usually too busy to get involved...the best way to curb those boards is to not let them get created.. they will start with a small neighborhood where all of the houses fit the historic description and then do a power grab to expand the district... and they rule by extortion...IMHO
*Tim, I live in a historic district in a Michigan city (perhaps the same one as you). In the early 1970's, a mumber of perfectly liveable older houses in my neighborhood were torn down to make room for several ugly multi-unit appartments. The neighbors got together to fight this trend and the result, several years later, was the passage of a historic district ordinance. Our neighborhood is not a fancy area. In fact, it was the first working class neighborhood so designated in the U.S. In my opinion, the ordinance has worked well. It affects only exterior changes which are visable from the street. Usually, that means only the front facade but, since I own a corner lot, it affects two sides of my house. The ordinance is not very restrictive. It does not say anything about paint colors. Roof changes require a variance but, since virtually all houses have long ago replaced their cedar with asphalt, putting on a new asphalt roof does not require a variance. Personally, I'm not wild about vynle siding or replacement windows with false mullions but both of those are allowed. Several years ago, I put on an addition to our house and the plans sailed through the Historic District Commission in 15 minutes. I've watched other commission meetings on the community access channel and the commission tends to bend over backwards to help homeowners come up with workable alternatives which will meet the guidelines. The folks who tend to have problems are usually newcomers to the neighborhood who think they ought to be able to do whatever they want to their homes no matter what their neighbors think, no matter how poorly their plans fit in with the rest of the neighborhood. I guess my feeling is that, for those folks, there are a lot of other neighborhoods with virtually no building guidelines. Personally, I wouldn't want to live there.
*Chip,What's the secret for keeping the committee members from becomming the rediculous rules generating legalists that I've had experience with?
*We bought a house in a tough historic district in Arkansas about eight months ago. I imagine that my feelings are much different than they would be if the district had come along later. I chafed a little when I realised that the Historic District had the force of real law behind it and if I began painting the house neon pink anyway they could drag me from the site in handcuffs. But they also won't let my neighbor paint his pink, and I can walk for blocks without seeing any aluminum siding or hideously enclosed porches. It also prevents the greed dogs from tearing down the old houses to build condos or duplexes. The only effect the regulation has had on me is to slow me down- even more than I am- They do not expect slate nor want cedar. My house and the whole neighborhood is worth real money and looks good, a thousand times more so than if the Historic District did not exist.