I am helping a friend do a deck, and we have finally reached the finishing stages. We are using IPE (which looks great but is hell on the back and tools) and I am looking at the sub rail and cap rail. his neighbors deck has the bottom rail oriented so that the groove is facing up, making it easier to position the baluster. Here it is the other way down. http://www.ipedepot.com/handrail.htm
I am thinking it is this way to prevent water pooling, but it is it super important the direction it goes in or is it just personal preference?
and, how bad is it to use deckmate screws instead of stainless in IPE, I am snapping/stripping the stainless screws left and right (and starting to lose patience) I am predrilling too…
jeff
Replies
Put the groove down, the neighbor's is 'wrong'. I don't see why 'deck-mates' would be a problem, are you 'countersinking' for the screwheads?
I would put the groove up on the bottom rail, then cut filler pirces to fit between the balusters and gorilla glue them in place to eliminate the groove.
Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell'em "Certainly, I can!" Then get busy and find out how to do it. T. Roosevelt
Speed is definitely an issue for this gig, so I am probably going to go groove side down
You're right...speed is definately more important than quality.
You could pre-cut a bunch of the bottom rail spacer / filler pieces, and use them to space the balusters. Two birds with one stone: fill the gap and space the balusters. Also, if the groove is 1/4" say, cut the fillers 3/8" thick and it creates another detail, and you don't have to worry about trying to get a perfect flush fit.
Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell'em "Certainly, I can!" Then get busy and find out how to do it. T. Roosevelt
Edited 6/5/2004 12:14 am ET by Ed Hilton
The groove was routed into the rail badly, and I it seems like the router climbed out of the cut on some of the pieces, although, I could re route everything, it does look like rain tommorrow, and ripping the ipe down to 1/8 will be a real PITA, and my friend wants to get it done (and it is his deck)
Everybody wants to get it done.....
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming.... WOW!!! What a Ride!
and my friend wants to get it done
and how much is he paying for the deck and how long does he plan to live with it.
I don't know what it looks like so don't take this the wrong way but if you rush it and cut corners just to get it done, he'll get his deck a few days earlier, but it'll look like sht for as long as it stands...
so ask him he want's to try a little patience or if he wants to look at shtty deck for the next few decades
"a hundred years from now ... do ya want them saying ... Man, looks like that carpenter did a real ... fast ... job".
and ...
"do ya want it to look good ... or do ya want it to look fast" ...
from Jeff's book of quotes ... as a sub to a GC.
JeffBuck Construction, llc Pittsburgh,PA
Artistry in Carpentry
I`ll have to reread your initial post...did you ask which was the proper way, or the fast way?
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
"DO IT RIGHT, DO IT ONCE"
Ed,
Putting the 'groove up' is the 'interior' method. No matter how much or what kind of glue you use, water will eventually 'wick' into the end grain of the 'filet strips' and lay in the groove area, leading to premature problems down the road. Every job you do has your 'name' on it, today, tomorrow and hopefully 30 or 40 years from now.
I was snapping SS screws too until I realized my pilot hole wasn't completely through the Ipe ... once I fixed that, and started using a cordless impact driver (Makita), everything went fine ... no more snapping, just a few stripped ... Bill.
---"I was snapping SS screws "---
As IMERC said, if you have a problem like that, have you used soap on those screws?
I was using my impact driver. I switched to the 18V cordless and on low speed I went back to just stripping the screw heads. IPE looks great but is not too much fun to work!
I am using oversized pilot holes too.
Something isn't adding up...
If you're using "oversize pilot holes" then the threads should only be engaging your joist. You are just "pinning" the decking down to the joists. Can't see why your joists (ACQ SYP I'm assuming) would be causing the SS screws to cam out. Help me out here?
I hate to disagree with Ed, but even if you fill and glue that rabbet, over the years, it will still collect water. For me, it's a no-brainer: Rabbet side down.
I spend a lot of time thinking about these things when working outside because most of my work seems to be fixing things that others have messed up. But then, I live in a place with rain, wind, snow, ice, sun, UV light, freezing, thawing, wetting, drying, dew, drizzle, termites and ants.
Al Mollitor, Sharon MA
I'm with mojo, rabbet down. Water will get in that groove no matter what you do.
As far as screw busting, is your pilot hole large enough for the screw to slide completely through the ipe ?
carpenter in transition
You can go either way.
Doesn't that help?
If you go rabbit up then cut fillets and fill the groove with construction adhesive enough so that when you slip the fillets in the glue totally fills all voids.
Its safer and looks better to go rabbit down.
How much extra time do you think you'd actually save anyway?
Be the rabbit and white night...and feed your head
andy
The secret of Zen in two words is, "Not always so"!
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
You are going to go through some screws.
Last year I did a deck using Pedra, a Brazillian Mahogany type wood. We pre-drilled and still lost a lot of screws to snapping and stripping - probably 1/8 of them. Ise either soap or a plumber's wax ring.
Quality repairs for your home.
Aaron the Handyman
Vancouver, Canada
Lets see, time for some clarification....
1) I am trying to move as quickly as possible without sacrificing the quality of the job, I was dreading the possibility of ripping filler strips and gluing each one down to into the spaces between balusters. I think it is important to take the time to do it right. The main contractor for the remodel kinda botched the whole job, and about once a week his flunkies show up and track roof goo all over the deck, in addition to making all sorts of shady repairs to the side of the house....)
2) I used the Ipe Clip system to secure the decking down, and that went down without trouble (using the appropriate size pilot hole), but when I started screwing together the balusters to the sub rails, screws were stripping and snapping left and right. I will try soaping the screws, that seems like a very good idea.
3)I am wondering to my self if the 13$ a pound boxes of square drive stainless from the despot/blowes are as high quality as mail order screws...
Again, I ask you, are you 'countersinking' for the screwheads? And personally, I believe (from experience), that 'everything' from the 'big box' stores are 'seconds'.
I am countersinking all of the screws, and I agree with the seconds from the big box stores, I have not had too much difficulty with deckmate scews untill this project...
"3)I am wondering to my self if the 13$ a pound boxes of square drive stainless from the despot/blowes are as high quality as mail order screws..."
No, I have found them much softer than those from McFeely.
But I have gotten some good ones locally. I think that the hardware store, but don't remember.