Can anyone recommend a good CAD program that a relative luddite can use?? If extensive manual use is needed that would disqualify ( I really need to be smarter in my next life). I am running Windows XT.
Thanks for the help
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someone is going to come along and ask you what you want to do with the CAD.
bobl Volo, non valeo
Baloney detecter WFR
"But when you're a kibbutzer and have no responsibility to decide the facts and apply the law, you can reach any conclusion you want because it doesn't matter." SHG
Since no one asked yet. I will.What does he want to do with it?.
.
A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
Try Google's Sketchup. They have a free version that quite a few people seem to like.
If you're looking for a "real deal" CAD program that is easy to learn, let me know if you find one. I've used CAD since the mid-80's and there ain't none of them "easy" to learn. - lol If you can invest the time and effort, however, you'll find it very worthwhile.
Have you tried sketchup yet? Hard to beat the price of the free version which is pretty powerful for free. And the pro version is reasonably priced as CAD go.
http://www.sketchup.com/?utm_campaign=en&utm_source=en-ha-ww-google&utm_medium=ha&utm_term=sketchup
A lot of people here run Google's sketch-up. It does have a learning curve (any CAD program will), but there are demos available.
http://sketchup.google.com/
Perhaps you would consider trying Sketchup...
;-)
It will be to draw up my next house.
What did you use to draw up your last one?
Here is one example of what Google Sketchup can do. This pic shows the "X-ray" option for rendering.
View Image
Gene,
That's a nice design drawing. Can you generate dimensioned working drawings from that design drawing? If so, what is the process?
Inquiring minds want to know.
Not working drawings in the traditional 2D sense, as in plans and elevations, but drawings that work for us nonetheless.
Here is all we needed to build the foundation with ICF blocks. The image is one layer of a many-layered model, and the dimensions are on a layer called "foundation dimensions."
View Image
Sketchup doesn't have as rich a dimensioning capability as do the big name packages (Chief Architect, Vectorworks, AutoCad, etc.), but it can do the job for us.
Gene,
Out of curiosity, do you ever have a need to produce traditional plans and elevations? If so, what do you use for them?
It can be done using Sketchup. The rendering view is toggled to parallel projection, the views are set to top, left, right, etc., and if needed, the section tool is used to slice a plane through the building model.
I use those features of SU to communicate kitchen cab info to our supplier. You can see in the attached pics how the section plane cuts through the model of a kitchen.
Thanks Gene.
I used the free version of Sketchup for the first time a couple of months ago. I found it quite easy to learn, and it was helpful in generating a perspective drawing so that the clients could visualize a rather complex roofline we were discussing.
I've known how to use AutoCAD for so long now that I can't remember not using it. ;)
Gene,
Is there a way to make an offiical looking Title Block in the Pro version? I haven't upgraded to pro yet so maybe it's there?
SU Pro 6 comes with Layout, which has title block capability.
There are some issues users have with Layout, but if you spend some time at it, you can develop workarounds.
A workaround I've used for title blocks is to make bordered pages with blank centers and title blocks, using MS Word, then use those as printer stock on which to print SU screenprints. Works just fine for the building department in the permit applications.
Another way is to have some peel and stick title blocks made at your local print shop, and fill in the detail by hand. I have always kept up, with practice, my architect lettering skills learned long ago, and so can do a passable title block that way.
Have you downloaded Ruby scripts? I have a huge bunch packed into my program. They include some nifty dimensioning routines not included in out-of-the-can SU.
My workhorse CAD is a 10-year-old issue of Cadkey, which is like the AutoCad of its day. Certain kinds of geometry that cannot be done (such as tangent arcs) are done with Cadkey, then imported into SU.
Thanks, the sticker and preprint options for the block were something I had already contemplated. I was thinking about an ink stamp as well. I never had training on proper lettering so extra focus will need to be there.
Yes I did find Ruby Scripts library and found some cool things but I've not had much of a need for a lot. Got any to brag about? I've been looking for an arrow tool for lines but seems you have to make them your self. Colored lines would be handy sometimes too but that's as elusive as the arrows. One that I do like is one that moves all the text to it's own layer.
I made my own component library for commonly available lumber for my locale for making working drwgs and that's really sped things up. They may be redundant but I at least know where to find them. Another one I made was electrical symbols. I'm no electrician but I can forecast some needs and ID them for the electricians.
The Pro version is not too far away budget-wise & I'm looking forward to the scaling options when printing.
Thanks Gene. I've done some smaller projects around my house using sketchup and it worked quite well. Based on my experience with the program it seems well suited for design drawings and smaller projects. You posted what appeared to be a whole house design. I was wondering if you could do working drawing on such a large complex project using sketchup's limited dimensioning abilities.
Mike K
If you are truly a luddite (and given that there is no such thing as Windows XT, I'm guessing you are) paper and pencil still work quite well. That's not meant to be a snide remark...I find that we tend to always attempt to use the computer when sometimes, the good ol' pad and paper is actually much more productive.
SketchUp is great, but, as the name suggests, it's more for sketching...which may be exactly what you are looking for. All that said, you can't beat the price!
it's more for sketching
Without being too rude, you are wrong.
Please see post number 9 above, does that appear to be a sketch?
I'll even add my own pic, it's not as fancy as Gene ( but what is? )
You're not being rude. We can certainly have different opinions, though. ;o)Sketchup is great, I love it, and use it. However, it is called 'sketch up' for a reason. The model you use to creat objects in the app is very much a sketch-based metaphor. That doesn't make it better or worse in general than, say, Autocad, just different.
Jmadson,
Yes, Gene's post and your post are sketches. But there's no inherent insult in that characterization.
Sketches are stylistically different than mechanical drawings, for example. Each can be very accurate and very useful, and each has their own place and purpose.
But Sketchup is a sketching program. It seems the designers of the program even intentionally made the lines a little fuzzy so it sort of appears like a hand-drawn sketch. But there's nothing wrong or unprofessional about a sketch -- just a different product is all.
Fuzzy lines the only way to work? Not in my copy of SU.
Sketchup has styles, in which one can change the rendering characteristics to make lines "sketchy" looking. But I rarely use the style that renders that way.
Other styles can make the lines look as if drawn with a coarse charcoal pencil, or a felt-tipped marker, or with pen and ink. I only model using the sharp straight lines.
If you think about architectural drawings and mechanical drawings, and how things always got rendered by hand in the orthagonal views (top, right, left, etc.) with additional information given by taking sections, blowing up parts to show detail, etc., you can conclude that it all developed before the advent of 3D modeling.
Sketchup permits modeling to 1/64" accuracy, which is certainly OK for housebuilding.
My opinion is that if all the information necessary to build can be communicated with dimensioned 3D renderings, then why bother with "traditional construction" drawings? My building department will accept annotated and dimensioned SU renderings, so why should I bother to do more?
This pic shows a rendering in SU's "blueprint" style.
View Image
how would you do floor plan, like wall.
"Floorplan, like wall"
Not sure I know what you mean, but I'll take a stab.
My SU models have lots of "layers" used to separate out elements, so that by turning on as "viewable" I can see and use only the layers I need.
I turn on the layers that include the subfloor decking and walls I want to see in plan view.
View Image
In the above pic, you can see by the color change in the walls where I used the section tool to cut a downward-looking section plane. In this pic I turned on the section as viewable.
View Image
Now I have turned off the isometric rendering feature, so all is in parallel projection, and I have done the view in orthagonal "top". All that is left is to turn on a little more detail by adding (if needed) windows, doors, staircase, and deleting (if needed) furniture. Then use the dimensioning tool to pop in all the dimensions, and . . .
View Image
What more?
Hey Gene - those are pretty sketches. You should consider taking them to AuotCAD so you can make some real plans out them ;)
how do you draw a room with walls, all I can do is a cube
how do you draw a room with walls, all I can do is a cube
Gene's got the pay version, I'm pretty sure.
But even with the free version, I think you could make walls of finite thickness. Instead of drawing a single plane for a wall, just zoom in and introduce a second one 4-1/2" away.
I have had good success with this program. I eventually purchased the full version.
http://www.punchsoftware.com
"May the forces of evil be confused on the way to your house." -George Carlin
"how do you draw a room with walls, all I can do is a cube"
I know you're kidding me.
Fuzzy lines the only way to work? Not in my copy of SU.
Thanks, Gene. I was unaware of that aspect of Sketchup -- I'd only ever seen the "hand drawn" look.
I don't want to sound like I'm arguing, but even the "blueprint" image that you attached is something I would term a "sketch". Most of the lines do not quite connect to one another, the corners are a little rounded, and many lines are missing that would need to be included if it were what I would term a "mechanical drawing".
Again, that's not to say I don't think that the "blueprint" image is unprofessional or anything like that. I'm simply drawing (NPI) a distinction between the literal mechanical precision (and lifelessness) of mechanical drawings and the slightly more "artistic" style of sketching.
My opinion is that if all the information necessary to build can be communicated with dimensioned 3D renderings, then why bother with "traditional construction" drawings?
To each his own, of course. I think your 3D renderings would be more easily understood by a layperson, and are more effective at communicating the general shape and "feel" of the structure than are "traditional" plan sets. Mechanical, 3-view drawings can be difficult to visualize for many people, especially when there are complicated geometries involved.
But I think that a plan view drawing is the most efficient way of communicating all the xy data on a single sheet. With a perspective drawing, for example, the interior walls and the walls on the back of the structure would be obscured and it would be more confusing to try to dimension them in a single drawing.
It's all up the data you put in and how you present it in SU. Having a floor plan as one of the layers is an easy step to add & print. A floor plan showing wall locatons and dimensions is fairly basic in SU and is usually the starting point for the model.
Turbo Cad Learning edition is available for free download.
It doesn't do 3-D, but it works well for the basics.
A medium to large guy named Alan, not an ambiguous female....
NOT that there is anything wrong with that.
I used turbo cad for years. They don't fix their bugs, they just churn new versions. Avoid it -- you'll eventually have to do a lot of un-learning when you're forced to change to a real cad program, not a toy.
-- J.S.
That must be why they offer a free version. :>)A medium to large guy named Alan, not an ambiguous female....
NOT that there is anything wrong with that.
I've been using ProgeCad LT 2006 which was available as a free download.
http://www.progesoft.com
It is a scaled down version of the for sale product. That said, they just release ProgeCad 2007 and it does not seem they have a free version any longer. It does appear that the 2006 stuff is available but I can't get the link to work.
I can make it do what I want it to though maybe not in the most efficient manner, (still learning tricks). I finally figured out how to print something out to a specific scale. Need to learn layers and stuff.
Sketchup just frustrates me. I suppose I need to spend more time with it.
In any case, If you have not used a cad program before, some time in the manual will be required. They all have a learning curve.
I am always using Trim, Extend, Offset, Break, Line/Angle/Length. Unless you know what tools are there, or should be there, to help you draw you will crazy trying to draw something useful.
"Sketchup just frustrates me. I suppose I need to spend more time with it."
It frustrated me, too. But that was before I understood the use of the tape measure tool, which is the Rosetta stone of Sketchup, the thing that can slingshot you up the learning curve. That, and doing "grouping."
This, from a heavy user of Intergraph's "Solid Edge," and Cadkey. Solid Edge is a parametric mechanical modeler, much like ProEngineer, and Cadkey looks and feels just like AutoCad.
Working up the learning curve with SU was well worth it. It is the modeling program I use most, now.
You have certainly gotten way up on the curve. Impressive drawings.To what detail are you grouping? Down to the joist or stud? wall type? or more to the layer/phase Foundation, walls, roof?
TFB (Bill)
Everything is either grouped, or is a component. Everything.
You'll find out as you work in SU, that it is the only way to work and keep things from "sticking" to each other, which is not only annoying, but can mess up a model, with time-consuming rework necessary.
With a couple of hot keys for "select" and "make group" or "make component," doing the work is quick and easy.
I never see the need in housebuilding design work, to model every stud, plate, header, etc. I only model what is necessary to work out a buildable design. Exterior walls are just 5.5" thick slabs, with R.O. cutouts to scale, where they belong.
I'll do roof framing members, stick or trussed, because I enjoy working out the geometry, and because SU will give me data I can use for ordering (trusses) or cutting (sticks.)
Using SU, I developed all the roof truss geometry for this job, and it is being used today to check all the figures on the roof truss submittal. It is amazing to me how wrong the truss guy got it the first and second times through.
Components it is, thanks.TFB (Bill)