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My Inlaws have just bought a house nearby and I have been doing my own inspection. I have found many things that were not noted in his report.Here is just a couple. The house has a hot air furnace with an electric air cleaner and a humidifier as were noted as in his report as existing only. (In their GENERAL REPORTS THAT THEY SUPPLY) THESE WERE NEVER CHECKED FOR PROPER OPERATION! I found out that the air cleaner has a bad contact. Sure the power on light goes on but the thing cant be working internally! The fill line to the humidifier has been disconnected for some time and the media is so mineralized that its no good anyway! All these little things could have been negotiated with the sellers and Real Estate agent to help reduce the price or they could have been replaced. I THINK MOST OF THEM MUST GET “KICKBACKS” FROM THE REAL ESTATE AGENT! They both make out – The Real Estate agent makes her commission on the “higher price”, and shares a little with Mr.Home Inspector who also receives his fee from the buyer he is supposed to help!
WHAT EVER HAPPENED TO PROFESSIONALISM AND HONESTY!
Please someone clear this up for me.
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While there might be kick-backs in a blatant case, most often I think it works more like this:
Mr & Mrs Buyer are new to the area, so they ask the realtor to recommend an inspector. The realtor is not going to recommend an inspector who might kill the deal. Likewise, the inspector relies on these kind of referrals, so he is not going to be too critical. If he does kill the deal, he knows that will be the last time he gets a referral from that realtor. So if he does see a problem he is tempted to minimize it ("the roof leaks, but you just need to put a bit of roofing cement aroiund the chimney" or "the furnace blower is noisy, but you just need to lubricate it").
If you were buying a used car, would you have it checked out by a mechanic that the salesman recommends?
I don't know how you could legislate honesty, integrity and objectivity. In your case, it's too late, but I would advise anyone hiring an inspector to then accompany the inspector and really look over his shoulder at every point along the way, and go over his checklist closely while he is doing it. That way, he won't "forget" to check the core in the humidifier or any of those other thing your inspector seems to have overlooked.
Jack
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Tom:
OK, here is the other side of the story...
I was the one who brought up the home inspector thing in a recent (earlier) thread. Home inspectors do have their place - I think it should be to identify major deficiencies in the subject property. That one missed a non functional humidifier doesn't surprise me - these guys can't be experts in plumbing, HVAC, Electric, carpentry, concrete, masonry, roofing, appliances, insulation, etc, etc, etc. If these guys were really that talented, would they be doing home inspections? And how much can they do in 3 or 4 hours?
If he had missed a badly leaking roof, sunken foundation, or non functional AC system, I think you would have a real issue.
No person or house is perfect, be it new used or whatever. What burns me is that many people buying a used home have come to expect (thanks to home inspectors) that every light bulb in the house be working. When you buy just about anything else used, it's buyer beware. In the recent home inspection for the sale of our house, this guy had me fixing conditions that had existed since the house was new - like - a screw that had never been installed in a hinge, and a wrinkle in a piece of flashing that was holding a shingle up about 1/2"!
Besides, a humidifier and electric air cleaner are just extra add on stuff that isn't an integral part of the house anyway. About %80 of the electronic air cleaners and humidifiers that are over, say, 12 years old, don't work anyway - but you already knew that - right?
Did your in-laws negotiate the price of the house - did their offer to purchase already reduce the price? Or, did they pay full asking price? And what did the inspector find "wrong" with the house? I'm sure they would have wanted to know up front that the air cleaner and the humidifier was not working but would have it made much, if any difference in the deal? Or would have this just been a way to get the seller down on the price? Maybe you could have gotten the seller to throw in his golf clubs that he got for his birthday and a few power tools.
I once sold a car to someone who wanted to take it to "their mechanic" to have it inspected. Long story short, we made a deal secured by a deposit but in the end he ended up giving me $500 less on a small car with 16,000 miles on it because it "needed tires" and the brakes were 1/2 worn down!
From my experience, home inspectors who are "too picky" just create an adversarial relationship between buyer and seller. It's like I told the inspector guy: "If there is something actually in need of correction with the house write it down in your report and I'll fix it. But, if you come up with a bunch of stupid stuff, you are just going to cause problems because, I'm just going to tell the buyer that I'm not fixing it!" - which is exactly what happened. Luckily, the buyer has some common sense and realizes that houses aren't perfect and a stem on an exterior faucet that leaks when the water is turned on isn't significant in the big scheme of things.
I think that some of these inspectors feel like they haven't done their job unless they find something that needs to be caulked or needs painting.
As far as kick backs, my guess is that there isn't any, and that a reasonable inspection just insures that the deal can proceed provided that the property is viable, and the home inspector gets more business from that agent in the future. Or did your in-laws really get burned with a "lemon" house that was presented to be in pristine condition and was purchased at 10% above the market value?
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Matt's right, you shouldn't sweat the small stuff, and in an older home there is such a thing as normal wear and tear. And in many communities now there is a disclosure statement that the seller must produce regarding known deficiencies that might materially affect the home's value.
Also, getting back to the original question; who does the inspector work for? Well, technically he works for the buyer who is paying his fee. However, he relies on repeat business, and he knows it will be a long time before he works for the buyer again, but he might work with the realtor again the next day. Also, you might think the realtor is working for the buyer, since it is the buyer that contacts the realtor and makes him jump through hoops to set up appointments etc. It only seems that way; the realtor is working for the seller.
So when you are the buyer you are really on your own. As they say in Rome, caveat emptor.
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They work for the buyer. My recommendation is that you find good ones based on word of mouth. Most people get the cheapest ones they can find. I would gladly pay $700-1,000, if it disclosed every defect. I would expect that any report cover:
1. Outlets. Do they all work. Are they all grounded. Defects noted.
2. Electrical Box and Wiring. Note capacity and any obvious issues. Crawl under the home and obseve any substandard wiring, but no need to open any junction boxes.
3. Plumbing. Pressure of system. Observe piping and note any problems (galvinized pipe, obvious leaking. Flush all toilets. Run all sinks, tubs and showers. Determine if all fixtures are vented.
4. HVAC. Run furnace and AC. Make physical observation of same. Note defects
5. Roof/Foundation. How many layers? Any evidence of leaks? How old? Physical obersevation of foundation, with notations as to any evidence of leaks.
7. Other Applicances. Run dishwasher, garbage grinder, ovens,etc. Inspect and note any defects.
8. Other Stuff too numerous to mention.
The listing of every defect may cause some adversity between buyer and seller, but a complete list of all defects, even ticky tacky ones, does allow a buyer to negotiate a better deal and to be fully informed. It also prevent future litigation between the buyer and seller, and the buyer will have direct knowledge of the defects prior to closing the deal, thus protecting the seller. Some escrows allow for the inspection to be paid for out of escrow proceeds not to exceed a nominal amount, like $500, with the excess being paid for by the buyer.
*Scooter,If I was selling a house(like the one I live in-an old two story built in 1939), and it was inspected to the degree you suggest, it would generate a list almost as long as Leo Tolstoy's War and Peace(well maybe just the War part). The cost of repairs would probably equal the asking price! Guess I'll be stuck here forever. Oh well, John
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Scoot,
If some prospective buyer brought me a home inspection with every little piddly thing on it for a house I was selling, and tried to negotiate from that. I'd tell 'em they could roll up their inspection and stick it. Major problems, fine. Such as termites or cracked foundation, that's negotiable. But don't bring me stuff like "chain for screen door missing, window needs caulk, front door hinges loose" I don't think it would behoove someone to antagonize a seller, specially in this economy.
Henri
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When we bought and sold two years ago, it was funny how the two home inspectors were viewed. Obviously, we expected our inspector to go over our future home with a fine tooth comb, which he did. But when the house that we owned was being inspected, we were ticked when we had to have the furnace cleaned to keep the buyers happy. I saw the report though, and was surpised at how much their guy had overlooked. I really think that you get what you pay for, as a good inspection can save or at least make you aware of potential hassles down the road.
For what it's worth,
Beatrix
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I have to agree strongly with Scooter. I think the inspector should inform the buyer of "ALL" defects, even ticky tacky ones. The buyer could then use this list to negotiate the "big items" with the realtor and seller, or to reconsider the potential purchase itself. I agree with you all that the "ticky tacky" stuff such as missing caulk should not be used to negotiate price.A buyer who is going to gripe over missing caulk should be walked straight out the door! Just LET THE BUYER BE FULLY INFORMED BY THE HIRED INSPECTOR is the issue here. I have yet to see this happen.
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My Inlaws have just bought a house nearby and I have been doing my own inspection. I have found many things that were not noted in his report.Here is just a couple. The house has a hot air furnace with an electric air cleaner and a humidifier as were noted as in his report as existing only. (In their GENERAL REPORTS THAT THEY SUPPLY) THESE WERE NEVER CHECKED FOR PROPER OPERATION! I found out that the air cleaner has a bad contact. Sure the power on light goes on but the thing cant be working internally! The fill line to the humidifier has been disconnected for some time and the media is so mineralized that its no good anyway! All these little things could have been negotiated with the sellers and Real Estate agent to help reduce the price or they could have been replaced. I THINK MOST OF THEM MUST GET "KICKBACKS" FROM THE REAL ESTATE AGENT! They both make out - The Real Estate agent makes her commission on the "higher price", and shares a little with Mr.Home Inspector who also receives his fee from the buyer he is supposed to help!
WHAT EVER HAPPENED TO PROFESSIONALISM AND HONESTY!
Please someone clear this up for me.