Fortunately I had the foresight to put a clause for out of square concrete in my contract. Unfortunately, I was too glamour struck by the project to take advantage of it.
The homeowners had already hired a concrete contractor to put in the footer and slabs. While my contract specified that the foundation must be within a 1/2″ of square, it was out of square over an inch. ‘So it’ll take a little more fussing’ I figured, ‘no big deal.’ I really wanted the project. In hindsight, I should of took the out when I had the chance. The concrete being so out of square might not have been that big of a deal, but the homeowners from Hades had something els up their sleeve.
The entire slab was to be finished before we signed the contract, but the concrete contractor was behind schedule. The homeowner pointed out the leveled dirt as well as the forms for the raised interior slab. As soon as the concrete was cured, I could start working. I was scheduled to begin that day, and I had kept my schedule clear to devote my sole attention to this project. Now I would have to wait a bit longer of course, but I figured it was the least I could do for my very first customers.
When the concrete was complete, I learned that the raised interior slab was no ordinary slab. The homeowners pointed out how this slab was colored concrete: ‘You can’t do any framing on this half of the project. All exterior and interior walls have to be framed off of the slab, and then carefully placed onto it. No pounding, dragging, or leaving the slightest mark on it whatsoever.’
I didn’t figure on working on top off a finished product. This raised slab was also more out of square than the footer. It was out at least 1 1/2″. There was my chance to get out of the contract again; the concrete was required to be within a 1/2″ of square. However, I was just too glamour struck with the project. ‘It’ll all work out in the end’ I told myself.
What if the concrete hadn’t been out of square though? I wonder; would it be a good idea to put a colored concrete clause in my contracts? Something like: ‘It is understood that all concrete is uncolored. If any colored concrete is placed before the framing begins, it will be considered a violation of this agreement.
Then, if the homeowners have something up their sleeve, they will be forced to divulge it at that time. If they insist on coloring the concrete before framing, at least I’ll have the opportunity to give myself more time, and to charge them more money.
–T
Replies
Carpentry and contracting are a bit different. As a carpenter you realize you have a problem and it will take more time. As a contractor you do not assume a partial breach allows you to walk away from the contract. Try walking away from a litigious customer and you might find yourself paying your replacement. Writing multitudes of provisions into your contract also makes for an ugly long contract that may violate consumer protection laws and invalidate your contract. What you need to do is get comfortable writing change orders. When your job has something you consider will take more work not covered in the contract you write a change order that informs your customer as to the cost and time increase before you do the work.
Jason
I wonder if you are trying to be a carpenter, a contractor, or a lawyer. Your contract is going to end up three inches thick.
Better to work at your communication skills to be able to read people at the outset.
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What I want to know is how you can sit down long enough to iron out a contract to build a house and not have the customer brag about the custom concrete floors they are going to have?
ANDYSZ2
WHY DO I HAVE TO EXPLAIN TO FRIENDS AND FAMILY THAT BEING A SOLE PROPRIETOR IS A REAL JOB?
REMODELER/PUNCHOUT SPECIALIST
Corrugated cardboard, covered by masonite on the colored slabs. Build right on top of it .
Done several that way and no damage
"Poor is not the person who has too little, but the person who craves more."...Seneca
I've never run into this kind of thing, the client telling me that I can't frame walls in the usual manner.
Does the framing contractor have the right to assume that he'll be able to follow standard practices unless otherwise stipulated by the client and agreed to by the contractor?
Does the framing contractor have the right to assume that he'll be able to follow standard practices unless otherwise stipulated by the client and agreed to by the contractor
Of course. Unless the framer is specifically told of any unusual job requirements (such as no work during months with an "r" in them) he assumes he can work in accordance with the usual practices in the industry. Otherwise, how could anyone ever price a job?
As others have pointed out, the homeowner needs a change order to reflect the anticipated extra costs. In addition, he can't tell you how to do the work in order to avoid damaging the slab. The "how" is in your control, even if you agree that the slab needs to remain pristine.
Edited 8/14/2007 12:14 pm ET by smslaw
Of course. Unless the framer is specifically told of any unusual job requirements.....
LOL. You try telling that to a woman who wants to control every step you take on her property. It doesn't happen often but it DOES happen.
It took me a while to learn that I had to take territory away from the homeowners during the negotiations, not wait until the job started. Otherwise, that woman will tell you that she knows nothing about the "usual practices", so how could be assumed that she'd agreed to them?
I also learned to recognize and avoid that kind of PIA person, female or male.
While you're here, how about giving me your learned counsel on another question?
92888.1
HV: as to the issue of damages to underground pipes or wires:
I don't think it is realistic to expect a homeowner to really know where underground utilities are. The best practice for a contractor is to a) call Dig Safe (or whatever the locator service is called in your area); and b) tell customer in writing that he, not you, is responsible for any damage or disruption associated with hitting underground utilities (or other hidden and unforseen problems, like ledge, etc.). That gets the burden off the contractor and onto the owner, where it should be. A contractor can't price a job based on every possible contingency. A change order for unanticipated conditions if fairer all around. Of course, the contractor needs to act reasonably. If the homeowner tells you he has a septic system, you should be able to figure out the general location before you start digging and maybe you want to find it with the small backhoe as opposed to the explosives.
A good contract is a properly documented allocation of risks. For homeowners, contractors may need to educate them about some risks that are apparent to professionals or to commercial clients.
A very good answer, one that confirms my feeling about allocation of responsibilities.
Thanks, much appreciated.
What is your role in the construction of the home? Are you just the framing contractor or are you the GC for the entire home less the CC?
Either way, you should have known before starting the work that you were going to have a finished floor to be working over.
The problems you're having do not stem so much from the "Customer from hell" as much as they do you not doing a proper job communicating and handling your customers.
You can not cover every possible situation within your contracts, you need to try to cover the most common and likely, I'd sugget finding a local lawyer who speacilazies in construction, he/she should be able to help you cover most of your bases.
You're going to find that on every job you do, something un-expected is going to come up, whether that is a customer wanting more phone calls, or having to work over a finished floor etc. You need to build in a reasonable fudge factor if you're trying to estimate everything down to the penny.
I'd like to think I would have had enough discussions with the customer prior to starting the job to find out what the finished floor would be, if I didn't I would have dealt with it by talking to them and explaining we would be working on top of the slab, albeit protected.
There are several ways to protect the slab as I belive David pointed out. Using cardboard and masonite. I would have probably done the same as he did and you will need to be more careful and gentle. Being a remodeling company we work over and near finished surfaces all the time. It can be done albeit at an expence.
If you're building the whole house except the CC why did you let the CC portion go? As the contractor you need to be in control of the entire process. To do that you need to work with people that you can trust and hold accountable.
You may have been able to, with the square foundation clause in your contract, go to the H/O as early as possible and explained that it is now going to cost more because of the complications with working with an out of square slab. But it's to late for that now.
Stop spending so much time and energy getting frustrated with your clients and direct that energy into becoming better at communication and running your business.
that's my $.02 anyway
"What is your role in the construction of the home? Are you just the framing contractor or are you the GC for the entire home less the CC?"
I am neither now. I was the framing and exterior finish/interior door contractor. In case I have'nt't made it clear in Part I, this job began and ended a year ago.
'The problems you're having do not stem so much from the "Customer from Hades'
Maybe not by themselves, but don't jump to conclusions just yet. This is only Part II, and they pulled a whole lot more stunts than just two!
". . .as much as they do you not doing a proper job communicating and handling your customers."
What I think some of you need to realize, is that contracts are a part of communication. The primary purpose of a contract should be to prevent any misunderstandings, instead of just creating a legal web.
"If you're building the whole house except the CC why did you let the CC portion go? As the contractor you need to be in control of the entire process. To do that you need to work with people that you can trust and hold accountable."
"The homeowners were the GC in this instance. They had already hired out the concrete before selecting a carpenter. Once the frame, exterior finish and interior doors were done, they had planned to do the rest themselves."
"Stop spending so much time and energy getting frustrated with your clients and direct that energy into becoming better at communication and running your business."
That's what I'm doing right now, and I've taken a break from running my own business so that I'd have the time to do just that. These posts are sort of a pre-paperwork/pre-lawyer phase for me.-T
What I think some of you need to realize, is that contracts are a part of communication. The primary purpose of a contract should be to prevent any misunderstandings, instead of just creating a legal web.
I'll disagree, while the boiler plate clauses for your contract are important and need to protect you as well as the homeowner they do not substitue for communicated with the clients. The type of communication I'm talking about is getting down beneath what your clients say on the surface to what they really want.
A basic example is when a customer tells me they want more cabinets in the kitchen.
What they're really saying is they don't have enough storage, so I need to ask what type of storage do they want, what can't they fit in the kitchen now, what type of items, can goods, small appliances, bulk goods, pots & pans etc. would they like to have better access too & where would be most convient based on their cooking styles, would drawer bases work better in certain places, pull out trays in others, a spice rack pull out, a pull out pantry... They'll tell you what they think they want, you need to figure out why they think they need.
Sure that example is pretty easy, but the same goes for them telling you that you can not work on top of their finished slab. Why do they not want you to work on it, what are their fears and then from there your job is to come up with a solution and convince and re-assure them that it will all be ok in the end and the slab will be just fine. Then your job becomes making sure that will in fact be the case.
"The homeowners were the GC in this instance. They had already hired out the concrete before selecting a carpenter. Once the frame, exterior finish and interior doors were done, they had planned to do the rest themselves."
And that there is your biggest problem, you have someone acting as the GC who probably has very little experience in running a project. As good as the project might have looked I would have probably declined.
Don't allow yourself to become so enamered by any one project that you feel like you just have to get it, you don't, listen to your gut, I can't think of a single project that we've done in the three years I've been in charge here that I had a bad gut feeling about that turned out well for us, most cases the customers were happy but either we weren't or we lost money. I still don't listen to my own gut enough but I'm far less fearful about bowing out of from a job then I was a few years ago.
You are sure saving me a lot of typing today!
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I framed houses for years and never would frame a house for a homeowner. I was a framing sub to builders and as far as i know that's the only people framing subs should work for. My career now is framing for owners but I draw the plans and build the foundations and finish the exterior. If someone wanted colored concrete and control of a job like they would need to call someone else. I will add too that I doubt there is a framer in Virginia who has a contract that is up to snuff with the state boards requirements let alone protect him from himself.
I think Piffins answer hits the nail on the head. We all have jobs like this, part of the business. No way to avoid them all. We contracted to paint the interior walls of a fairly large pet clinic. The agreement was we could start daily set up at 2PM, start paint by 4 and they close at 6PM.
We would continue to paint till 10 and the vet would come in and lock up. Within 2 days they are saying "man, this is really a problem for us with the paint prep and all. You are going to have to start later, like 5:30". I don't think I have to tell anyone here what cutting an two and a half hours a day costs.
This job is a pretty simple deal and for 3k so not worth squabbling about. Just had to suck it up, work a little late and a couple more days. They just called us for some more work. Worth the bother.
DanT