Replies

1. 
   piffin_ | Dec 25, 2001 08:24pm | #1

   *
   Laser level line

1. 
   calvin_ | Dec 26, 2001 04:18am | #2

   *So what do you have Gene? How bout posting a pic of the situation and how you're dealing with it/hiding the goof? Might help some of us avoid it.

1. 
   GACC_DAllas | Dec 26, 2001 07:58am | #3

   *Gene,I may get slammed for this......but.......Sometimes you have to throw out the level and just go for straight to the eye. Plumb and level is what we shoot for, but not at the expense of asthetics. (sp?)Several times I've had to say, "I think there is something wrong here." and the reply would be, "Well, it's dead on level." To which I would say, "Yeah, but it doesn't LOOK right with the house. We better drop that end a little before someone else see it." Sure enough, it may be out of level a little, but it LOOKS level.Ed.

1. 
   ANDY_C._CLIFFORD | Dec 26, 2001 06:21pm | #4

   *Ed, EXACTLY..no pun intended. I learned to put my level down a long time ago on certain projects like finished basements for example. Floors totally out of level so when I leveled the drop ceiling everything made you dizzy...sometimes just measuring and eyeballing is the way to go.Andy

1. 
   calvin_ | Dec 26, 2001 08:53pm | #5

   *You won't get slammed from here Ed. A good eye is an indispensible part of a carpenters tool box. Being able to look ahead so those surprises can be taken care of b/4 they happen sure helps too. Experience and just taking in all that's around you provides a boatload of education that gets used on the job all the time. Man, there's so much more to this than codes, trig and span tables. Must be what keeps it interesting.

2. 
   kip_harris | Jan 02, 2002 05:55am | #6

   *gene do alot of restoration work the eye , a story pole, and if there is a soffit pull numbers from that to get some reveal bench mark. when you got all that see if waterlevel (my favorite). and /or the laser line and see where you stand you really cant futz with doors and windows as far plumb and level. cheers

3. 
   Bucksnort_Billy | Jan 03, 2002 09:46pm | #7

   *Gene, We used to do a lot of work for an architect who loved to run a contiuous horizontal trim band, across all the door and window heads, both inside and out. Those framers definitely earned their money...but it was always dicey fudging the reveal on a door or window that were only a couple of inches apart...bb

4. 
   Mr.T | Jan 05, 2002 11:17pm | #8

   *Ed My sentiment exactly, Plumb level and square are not as important as consistant, even, balanced, etc.A good finish carp. should be able torely on his eye to tell him whats good.Finish work is not perfection but the illusion of perfection.Mr T

5. 
   Dave_Crosby | Jan 06, 2002 04:10am | #9

   *Thanks, Gene.I've got one of those coming up and I think you just saved me a whole bunch of trouble.OK, any more suggestions from anyone?I've got two doors, three 5-0 slider sets, two 5-0 fixed sets, and about 18 windows of various sizes coming in a couple of weeks and a client who is about to ask me for that horizontal trim band.Oh, yeah -- the head height of the doors will probably be 6-10 AFF and the windows will be set at 6-8 AFF.Any suggestions, reccomendations or advice will be gratefully received.Dave

6. 
   Mr.T | Jan 06, 2002 04:18am | #10

   *Either raise the windows to match the doors or separate thi horiz. trim detail from the top of them enough to make the difference less noticable.Is this horiz. trim line interior (pictuer rail) or Exterior (freize)?MHO Mr. Trim ;)

7. 
   Gene_Davis_ | Jan 06, 2002 05:11pm | #11

   *In my experience, we had rooms where the horizontal trim band ran right along bands of ceiling soffit, and so the problems compounded by the need to get the soffit framing at the right elevation, and the drywall straight. In other rooms, the horizontal trim band was at the 7/0 height but below an 8/0 ceiling line above. We specified all window and door R.O. heights above rough floor elevations, and framed accordingly. We purchased interior and exterior doors accordingly, even paying premiums for special heights, either cut-down or "stretched." We have fought inaccuracies in level and straightness, in trimming out, but are done now, and the results are spectacular.In doing it again, I would make R.O.s larger heightwise, to facilitate more up-down adjustment in setting windows and doors. I would use a water level with a long-enough tube so that on each level of the house, level benchmarks can be made everywhere necessary (every opening, along walls where soffit drops will occur, etc.). I would take all the time required to accurately set and fasten every window and door to the benchmarks, and in alignment to each other. I would build soffit framing to allow for a drywall application where 100 percent skimcoat is used as a means of getting the wall and ceiling line straight and to the marks where trim will run againsts ceilings.Doing all this, if you have trim running along ceilings, and if it is flat trim like we used, you will still need to back-cut the trim and do some scribing and belt sanding.

8. 
   calvin_ | Jan 07, 2002 01:10am | #12

   *Rough break Gene. When there's that much visual detail you definitely have to mark and alert all the trades as to what they are. You'll have probably saved Dave alot of headaches now that he's alerted to some of the things that really separates good from great. Dave, make doubly sure you take all finish elevations and locations of elec/plumbing/heating into consideration. It's a little too late after it gets covered up. Good elevation drawings posted on site for reference by the other trades sometimes pays off. Tract houses get roughed in, customs take a little planning. Best of luck.

9. 
   wedgehead | Jan 12, 2002 02:23pm | #13

   *Something I'm sure I read here has stuck with me for a while now: If it looks right it is right. You're not really trying to be perfect with trim, just fool the eye.