As I mentioned in another post here, I posted an inquiry on another site visited mostly by homeowners. I asked who was interested in building green. I’ve been mostly ignored.
Did get 2 (!) responses, both negative. Here they are, in part:
(1) <As far as I can tell the “green build” is just a new buzz word to separate people from there money. The proses started out with good intentions but has been polluted by greed.>
(2) <We chose our builder because the company was “green.” We have found it to be nothing but a marketing scheme. We had problems from the beginning – trash all over our farm and in with our livestock, burning on the site (treated lumber), our driveway got put on the neighbor’s property and the builder won’t replace the trees that were removed, (“trees are so important to us”) and the painters/stainers dumped paint by our well head. In addition the windows have been missing locks for 5 months thereby pumping heat to the outside, they leave lights/radio on all night and not many of the materials we received were what are considered “truly green” as we found out.
On the up side, we did get a five star energy rating, which I have yet to see the paperwork. >. . . . . . . .
Post #2 is the more troubling since a HO had a bad experience with a “green” builder.
Of course, you’d think anyone would do more in verifying any builder’s credentials, checking his references, researching their own materials/systems and then specifying them in the contract.
But I have to say, most don’t. As a HO I can say just doing all that became a full time job.
Before I make a response to the posters (and I will be kind and gentle), can I get any help with what to say???
In particular, I want to tell them how to verify the builder’s green credentials. I figure here’s my chance to do a little educating. As a mere HO I can’t do much else but I can be a bridge between consumer and you builders, so that’s my little contribution to the greater good.
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Unfortunately, you can't argue with the facts, and the second HO had reason to distrust "Green" after their experience. But telling them how to verify a builder's green credentials sounds like a good idea that might even be welcomed.
It is our experience that building green is not a decision we make for marketing but rather a decision we make for ourselves. We have decided that this is the way we want to do things. As far as your posters
#1 Does not get green, doesn't care about green and nothing that is said to them will change their mind at this point. These people we try to avoid as the attitude tends to carry over into whatever they are building.
#2 This really has nothing to do with green except to validate #1. This just sounds like a lousy builder and a homeowner that did not do their homework. Unfortunately when this kind of performance is spread around and tied to "green" it doesn't do anyone any good.
What I find is that there are three groups - Those that don't get green and will argue about anything, Those that are interested but don't know what to ask, and those that get it. Needless to say we avoid the first, the second is more than welcome to come into the showroom and maybe attend one of our seminars and the third has some knowledge and is a pleasure to work with in defining and achieving their goal.
Sound familiar? It pretty well sums up most of the people I deal with on any job. As far as a builders credentials you will find it difficult to do as green credentials are not well defined in the residential market except in a scattering of communities. That is starting to change but I find that usually a HO needs to do some leg work first to define what their goal is and know what to ask a builder and to understand their response.
The best thing a builder can do is be knowledgeable in green and start practicing it in their business and life and what I have found is I am happy to answer questions for someone interested in learning but not in trying to convert someone to my way of thinking. Which is why I limit my posts on these boards because many of them become a rush to convert someone to anothers thinking rather than an exchange of ideas. Which is a topic for another time and post.
Very precise analysis, dhall. I get your philosophy and the rationale for it. I don't proselitize either.I'm just a HO, not a builder, but I'm currently in the process of trying to get a green house built. And people ask me a lot about it. Gets tiresome for me, too, but there you go.As to the current situation on that other site I'm following: Post #1 we can all discount. And a lot of that site's readers will too. But Post #2 is sitting there as it is, scaring off some folks that might've been leaning in the green direction.Further, #2 also had a bad experience and doesn't understand why (let's reserve our commentary about genetics and IQ and all). If I make a reasoned and helpful response to her, it could be a pebble in the stream of the huge amount of bad press green building is going to increasingly get from builders who are not "the real deal." So, I'm going to post a response. Anybody who has any interest in helping me out with my thinking or my prose, please have a shot at it.
My point was only that #2 had a bad contractor, not a bad green contractor and I would simply point that out and leave it at that. The things you mentioned were by and large symptoms of a bad contractor. Unfortunately there will be those contractors who are less than good and odds are they will try to profit from "Green" It can be difficult for a HO to figure out a path to take. I have a marketing and internet company and we are launching a green directory and informational web site for this exact reason and it is difficult for us to make it easy to understand. The best thing I can say is alot of green is simply common sense. Once you are on that page you can take it as far as you want.
dhallI am just curious as to where you are based? Your profile has no information. Great discussion and I think helpful to the poster.arthurhttp://www.thesmallbuildingcompany.com
I have heard several green builders I respect, call it a continium of Green. From Pale green to Dark Green. And I think that is a good description. Instead of On / Off (Green/Not Green) more like Greener than some, not as much as others.
Sounds like Builder #2 is a little Pale Green.
Each Builder picks the pieces of Green Building that works for their company. Maybe something works in Phoenix but not in Michigan. In this way the marketplace can decide where Green will fit into the buyers choices.
I think its a racket too, nobody will tell you what defination of green is.i do live in Alabama, so my advice might be worthless
Please people use your punctuation! We don't need the rev. bringing his wrath onto finehomebuilding.com
H.O.
LOL, sorry couldn't help myself. I thought Imus joined the board or something.
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H.O., H.O., H.O.I got a chuckle out of it too once you said that.I'm definitely a H.O.--not a HO.
Build green?
I would build smart. There is SOOOO MUCH that goes into consideration of design and build. Designing takes me almost as long as building sometimes.
Work with somebody who designs an energy efficient house. First, get some GREAT WINDOWS. They are your biggest heat loss and will have the greatest affect on your utility bills. They have to be installed very carefully which takes some time. Trust me on this.
The rest is up to you.....you can enjoy the comforts of a custom built for you home....but get the windows right, the insulation right, the venting right.....and for some reason if you want to go overboard, put florescent lights in every light you have.
I wouldn't do that except for my outside lights, would rather have warm light in my living room. And I still think it's green.
Study, study, study. Design. Then make your decisions.
Good luck!
There is a lot of hype , and garbage science and corruption, in "Green"
H.O.#1 just wants an excuse to feel good about building an energy sucking McMansion. Nothing to say to a person like that, they're not your customer.
I think the thing to say to H.O. #2 is that "Green" is like "Energy Star" Anybody can call themselves a green or energy efficient builder. But it takes a bit of work to get to where you can call yourself an "Energy Star Partner" or a "Green Certified Builder."
There are lots of green certification programs out there from Light green to Deep green but any one of them is Certified rather than claimed. If a guy says he's green ask him if he's certified and who handles his certification.
I like NAHB Model Green Building Guidelines. But LEED-H is good as are any of the innumerable local green building certification programs. I know Georgia has a good and venerable one.
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"You cannot work hard enough to make up for a sloppy estimate."