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Currently, I am seeking information on hot water recirculation devices. The City of Oceanside intends to implement a water conservation program by installing hot water recirculation devices in all new construction (commercial and residential). The information I am seeking is to find out if anyone in the industry has installed these devices, your successes, failures, benefits, pitfalls, cost benefit analysis and any recommendations or general information. I am interested in devices that have and have not been installed. I can be contacted at (760) 966-4869.
*You might want to try a search. There have been a few discussions about this. This one for example.Rich Beckman
*Mine consists simply of a loop of 1/2" soft coupper from the furthest lav to the water heater with a swing check. Two story house. It thermosiphons without a pump. Of all the little niceties I put into this home, that is the one that makes me smile every time I use it. Take about 6 seconds to get hot water to the shower, about a 50' run from the tank.
*How well insulated is the loop ?
*I've been using recirc systems for years in homes from 3000 sqft to 6000 sqft with two tanks. Homeowners love them, energy and water savings break even in a few years (3-4). The pumps are sid not to last more than a couple of years, but we've had them installed for 4 years and still going. Very easy to replace pump. I'd do it!
*Wanted recirc in our house, basement and two other floors. Plumber added recirc line to two upper bathrooms, but no pump. Said we could add it later if thermosiphoning didn't suffice.It works GREAT. Hot water to faucets is practically instant. Insulated the line, too. Agree w/ wedgehead that it's a treat every time you use it.Hopefully Oceanside will have a provision for passive recirc methods, too, because in a case like mine, a pump would be nothing but a waste of elec.
*My loop is insulated with thermoseal in the exterior wall, but drops under the slab for most of the run. It seems to me the key is to get the water to cool a bit on the way back to the tank to allow it to thermosiphon. BTW, anyone have a guess as to what this costs in increased heating bills? i.e. more hot water heater cycling.
*Wedgehead: The thermospihon in my house is insulated with R-2.5 closed-cell foam. I'm not going to dig up my old text on calculating heat loss in cylinderical coordinates. So I'll approximate the surface area as the middle of the insulation. And use your run length of 100 feet, round trip. 2 x pi x .75"/12" x 100' = 40 sq ft. 40 sqft x (120-70) degrees / 2.5 sqfthrdegree/BTU = 800 BTU/hour or 19,200 BTU/day. The savings are much less: You save 1 to 2 gallons of hot water each time the sink or shower is used, maybe 15 times a day. Call it 20 gallons of 120 degree water or 1,000 BTU. So the energy savings are 5-10% of the energy costs. But the convenience is very nice.It costs me nothing more from October to May and $3 for the other three months ($0.03 per day) because my pipe run is shorter. $3/year seems like a great deal for the instant hot. But then I have a very long heating season and very cheap natural gas. Your mileage may differ. Objects in mirror are closer than they appear. -David
*Any comments on thermosiphoning COLD water? Offered somewhat in jest, but... My hot water recircs naturally and beautifully to the third floor sink, but the cold water is lukewarm until I run it for 20 sec or more. Warm water tastes lousy with toothpaste. It's always something...
*Jim...You're too late...the cold pipes were run too close to the hots...too near the hot stream,aj
*Thanks for the reply David. Even heating with propane, it should amount to less than I thought. I agree that whatever minor increases I incur to heat this constant hot water loop, it is indeed worth every penny. I also like the fact that I'm not dumping needless amounts of water down my septic.
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