My wife wants a storage shed. I see a lot of small outbuildings 8×10, 10×12 or so that just sit on treated 6x6s or railroad ties. My question is : How big can I build before I need to put some sort of foundation in first? I’m in the northeast.
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Not sure about exact loads but as long as you support the floor with some type of footing ie: those elephant feet or actual pylons dug to 4 feet. any size can be done.
Check with the local building code to make sure your lot can take the size you wish to build.
I agree with the note about building codes but you should go a step or two further. First:check with the officials about the allowed size of the building. Get a building permit while you're there.
Second: What setbacks do you have to observe from property lines. In my city, out buildings without foundations (portable bldgs.) don't have to observe this BUT once it's set, if the city want's you to move it for any reason, you have to move it. Better for me to put it in the right place the first time.
THird: be sure to check your neighborhood covenants for your subdivision. Your neighbors have just as much right and power to have you take down an "unapproved" building as much as the city does. HINT: check around the neighborhood to see what else is sitting in people's back yards. Ask around if anyone had problems with the neighborhood association. Sometimes it is easier to get forgivness than permission--especially if there are several other buildings you can point to. Neighborhood groups have more tolerence if the new building "fits" in. That is, if it matches your house (color, style, roof pitch, shingles, etc.) &/or if it is hidden from the view of the street.
Good luck!
P.S. Of course, much of this doesn't apply if you don't live in town!
Casey- I just put up a 12x16 sitting about two foot off the ground on two- stacked 12x16 inch concrete blocks sitting on a 2foot square two inch concrete paver laid on the ground in each corner and midway between the 16ft lengths of doubled pressure treated 2x8s. On each end of the 12foot joists at mid span are shorter block piers holding a 4x6 beam running perpendicular underneath each joist. 3/4 inch osb t&g for flooring. Figured I could move it pretty easily if I had to but still big enough to hold a lot of stuff and more storage underneath. I've got sandy soil so I figured frost heave would minimal. Works for me.
Half of good living is staying out of bad situations.
Forget the primal scream, just Roar!
Local codes dictate the size and setback, even style of shed that can be built. Typically 100 sq ft is not regulated, but in a neighboring city, the shed must have a gambrel roof of all things even if it is 100 sq ft. Your city or county etc. will be able to answer your questions. Now, you can just take a chance and build what you want, but don't be surprised if they make you tear it down if it violates code. I have seen that happen right on my street.
get out the shotgun.Half of good living is staying out of bad situations.
Forget the primal scream, just Roar!
also, depending on the town, you could be taxed on the shed over a certain size.
bobl Volo Non Voleo Joe's cheat sheet
A few more points, In some areas, tie downs are required because of tornados and hurricanes or flood zones.
Local codes always apply to size, style, ssetbacks.
Don't let the salesman tell you what the codes are, he don't know. You are the one facing fines and moving costs if it isn't right. eg. Locally we can do up to 120 sq ft if back fifteen feet from property line and 50 ft from center of the road without a permit but those 'cover it' structuires get sold by salesmen telling customers that since they are temporary structures, the codes don't apply which isn't true here. Some places might have that exception.
Thanks for the input. I'm not too worried about setbacks, I live in a rural area. The only way anyone will see this building is if they come up my driveway. As far as permits and local codes and such, I thought I would first figure out what I want to put up including size, loads, etc. and then take it to the appropriate person. My concern is that a bigger building without a foundation will twist and cause windows and doors not to work properly. True?
Movement in the base will cause the structure to twist. You would probably be able to adjust the base with a spudbar and a block if that should occur and you don't build a monster. Around here in NW OH., a good store bought outbuilding is set on a bed of stone. Drainage and depth should be considered so as to lessen the chance of frost heave and dampness. How bout making your own polebarn with an auger and posts? The foundation would be way more stable. You build it right, it should stay right. Best of luck.__________________________________________
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
I may end up putting up a small polebarn. But then again, bigger is better. A person can never have too much storage/work space (if I can afford it). What's a spud bar?
Edited 9/11/2002 5:21:33 PM ET by caseynick
"What's a spud bar?"
Package of pain on a pole
When we were doing hot gravel roofs, it was neccesary sometimes to remove the gravel topping from the asphalt membranes without tearing the asphalt paper. A bar similar to an ice chipper or straight hoe was used. When it came to a sudden stop, hurting your hands, arms and back, it made a "Spud" noise - or maybe that was the grunt that came out your mouth.
I still have a couple that I use for ice chippers on the sidewalk.Excellence is its own reward!
Regional difference I guess. Around here, at least to me and a few other goofballs, the spud bar is the 5-6' long pc of round bar with a heavy, quick-wedged end. No shingle ripper for sure, but to take up that hot tar roof by the pc, including the sheeting, this is the tool. In your case casey, you would use it as a lever to pry up portions of a sagging shed so's you could shim under it. There are a few "gauges" of bar. When you see one bent, it means they shoulda used the heavier one. You can coax alot of things into or out of position with the spud bar.__________________________________________
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
Here, we call that a crow bar.
I've got one that's not bent.
6'2" and haevy 'nuff for two!Excellence is its own reward!
And here a crow bar is the hook on one end, straight pry on the other. Now usually octogon, old ones round stock. And what would you call this?__________________________________________
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
I have a Wizard and a PrybarExcellence is its own reward!
yep, spud bar for long length and crow bar for octogon and curved end.
I always heard the term spud bar somehow came from it's use on the building of the first railroads.Half of good living is staying out of bad situations.
Forget the primal scream, just Roar!
Yeah, move those rails around.__________________________________________
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
I have seen some ok anvils made out of rails.Half of good living is staying out of bad situations.
Forget the primal scream, just Roar!
I must have misappropriated your intentions. I meant to say that those spud bars were used to move the rails, or more precisely, to move both rails and ties. Gandy dancers did the moving. We flattened many a penny on the rails behind the house.__________________________________________
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
ya, one time we decided to flatten a quarter and didn't want to lose it as sometimes happened with the pennies after the train ran over it. So we found this 1/4inch thick, two inch wide by 10 foot or so, piece of iron we dragged to and placed one end over the quarter sitting on the rail, and covered the exposed length of it with straw and leaves, then hid in the bushes. When the train went by it hit that iron and went BANGITY BANGITY over and over for the whole duration of the train passing. Literally scared the daylights out of us thinking we were going to derail a train or something.
We did keep the quarter.
And never did that again.
Keep an eye on your kids.Half of good living is staying out of bad situations.
Forget the primal scream, just Roar!
And here a crow bar is the hook on one end, straight pry on the other. Now usually octogon, old ones round stock. And what would you call this?
I still call that a crow bar (usually 4' long).
The 6' long straight poles with a wedge on one end, point on the other, are called "Texas Toothpicks" in these parts. When you go to plant anything, you get a toothpick out to "move" the rocks!
Casey -- as to the odd ball 12' x 18'. My current shed (at the old house) is 10' x 18'. Just found that size worked really well, especially I would sneak in the an old Datsun convertable (13' long) into it when someone wasn't looking. Good way to hide one of "oh, no dear... that little sports car has always been there" buys. I suspect with the post floor that might be a little too much loading. Good point, as by the time I make a 12' x 18'... 12 x 20 works out just as well, as I will use Hardie Board for the siding.
On the flooring, figured I'll place the supports as they land, then just use the chop saw to make up shims as needed to get everything leveled out.
Tom W
I use a spud bar and I didn't even realize it, if I have to move or go through a rock when digging a posthole by hand. No point on the back end makes it easier to land a sledge on.
A crow bar is a crow bar. Pardon my amatuer questions but, Hardie Board??
Edited 9/12/2002 8:37:25 PM ET by caseynick
Hardie Board is one type of a cement-fiber siding. Should be the best thing since sliced bread, but I remember LOTS of products claiming to be the "best siding since sliced bread". So far, so good... The 4' x 8' sheets are heavy, and you need to pay attention to installation notes when working with the stuff.
Best part: For insurance, they consider the product to be "masonry". Lower premiums with the siding.
Read up on the installation details here: http://www.jameshardie.com/buildingproducts.htm
Cheers,
Tom W
"I'm not too worried about setbacks, I live in a rural area."
You'd better get worried before you waste a lot of time and money. In my years on the local planning board, that was one of the most common problems. Storage buildings on somebody elses land, on rights of way, even over the well. One guy drilled a well on his neighbors land and couldn't use it. An expensive(40K) garden shed was built only six feet from the property line instead of fifteen and they had to move it - not cheap for a stone anbd glass building.
Your comment is like the guy who throws the map away and says, "I'm not too worried about which road to take, I'll get there eventually"
The reason setbacks are set by ordinances are to preserve property values and saftey considerations. Ignoring them usually means throwing cash out the window.Excellence is its own reward!
I didn't mean I'm not too worried/I don't care. I meant I'm not too worried/The building will be well within any setback requirements.
OK
Sorry I came off too hard atr you about it. Property rights are a subject close to my heart. One we all need to watch out for.
Just this morning, I had to go out to a site to try and mediate a dispute where a logger was building a service raod in to remove timber. Apparantly he never checked a deed, map, or bouday line. He just assumed, "well this looks like a good place for a boudary to run, so this must be it" The idiot built his run over a boundary marker and lost it, then to pour salt on his wounds, he removed soil from the wrong lot to build his roadway. The lot he removed it from happened to be the back lot of the cemetery. The public version of this faux pas will be that he was digging up graves by the time it gets around once. There were no graves there yet but It will not only be expensive for him (replace soil and reseed plus a survey to re-establish the boundary corner) but extremely embarassing.Excellence is its own reward!
Caseynick,
Spotted those "foundation blocks" at the big orange box store... noticed the web site listing next to it. http://www.deckplans.com Scroll on down, and you'll find the "shed floors". Admitted I wouldn't build a shed SMALLER than the deck (as shown on the web site), but the layout looks sounds. Lots of leveling to do, but should be a good foundation for a shed. Need to build a 12' x 18' garden shed for the riding lawn mower, kids bikes, go-kart and all those other items I want to keep out of the garage!
Thought is to leave a 12' x 5' area on one side... plenty of room for the kids stuff, so their bikes are always put up and out of the way (four kids), adult bikes can be hung up above the kid's bikes. Doors on the other side allow access to the 12' x 13' area... plenty of room for garden tools, hoses, lots of stuff... and the mower.
If anyone has any good photo's of sheds, please post. Thinking of an exterior fold down shelf with gardening supplies for my spouse. Just a little extra of "nice to have" so she can get to her stuff, have a potting bench, and still be able to button things up when needed (no need for the deer or raccoon's to get into potting stuff!)
Tom W
P.S. Trash can... flip up lid. Noticed the trash bags were pretty well clawed apart. Must admit it is rather nice of a raccoon to open the lid, eat without making a mess, and leave the lid closed upon departure! (Yes, I am now spooked to open it waiting for that critter to fly out of there one of these days!)
Why not make your shed 12x16 or 12x20? Divisible by 4 for easier sheathing.