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I started out as a laborer on a rough crew for my two uncles when I was 15.It felt like I carried lumber for two years straight but,eventuly I picked up on things. I’ve done a couple of remodes in that very same sub in the last couple of years and drive by those houses we worked on and can picture us there like it was yesterday.
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Whoops!!! I meant get started, not got.
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I was in college (again, one degree already) and a fraternity brother's Dad was paying 50 bucks a day for labor (1987). I was having a pretty good time and he needed full time help. It fit my class schedual so I went to work. I didn't know anything. To prove this, the first time he told me to get a brick chisel I ran to the truck and grabbed anything remotely close to a brick chisel. He took what he needed and I ran they rest back to the truck. This basically went on for a while, I found I liked what I was doing and went and bought a book on tools by Norm and Bob Villa. It helped, but watching a grouchy old remodeler at work was my education.
*One of my first construction labourer jobs was to beat a large concrete set of front steps / porch into pieces small enough to pick up and load in the back of the truck. Took me all day, my hands were pretty blistered. Asked the boss why didn't he rent a jackhammer instead of making me do it with a sledge, he said I was cheaper. Fell off my first and last scaffold on that job too.
*It was an error on my part. Some pea brain convinced me that there would be a shortage of frame carpenters due to an aging workforce...turned out to be hooey. Here in Canada every time a factory closes down and moves to Mexico...three hundred carpenters are born.I took a course on it and landed on a site in Hamilton. Building houses. I slid down a 10/12 roof about 120' and landed on the hood of the bosses truck. It was at that point that I made a conscious decision to become a really great trim carpenter. I learned how to frame pretty good...How ever they don't usually like the price. I know what you guys get in the US and just can't see framing for 2.65/sq' Canadian Peso's at that. I thought slaves had to purchased, clothed and fed?
*I was a offshore commercial fisherman when I decided in wanted a job on the beach. (some of our trips were so long, the world could have blown up and we wouldn't know)There was an ad for helper...
*Signed contract to build a home...then bought an Estwing and built it.J
*My first actual job was in the summer working withthe lamest crew in D.C. I was assigned to a drywaller and not knowing better I thought the tough part was screwing the board up. Since he had the only drywall gun I was measuring and cutting the boards ahead of him. I was pretty good and doing all the hard work, he probably thought he hit the lottery.
*it was late spring, I was a laborer working after school and on the weekend, on a really neat custom home in the woods, with tools that cut, made really load noises and made it possible to make really big structures. We listened to loud rock and roll, worked outside with our shirts off and took in some gorgeous sunsets at the end of the day. I think it hooked me the very first day.
*Jack,
Joseph FuscoView Image
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Joseph FuscoView Image
*1986
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My first job I did cabinets on, was for a builder desparate for someone to do small jobs.(I never told him I had never set cabinets before)
I pulled up to a very nice 4000+ sq ft.in an exclusive sub and met the homeowner and builder.
I shook hands with both and the homeowner left to run some errands. The builder went over everything real quick and left.
The cabinets went just like everything I had seen and read with suprising no problems. I then proceeded to do the other trim details and finished with some roped trim on the stiles in the library. As I was working I glanced over to see a picture of the homeowner and then president George Bush arms around each other like best friends. If I wasnt intimidated before the job I was now!!!
When I went back to do some back ordered accessories the homeowners were pleased with all my work and requested my phone number before I left.
I continue to do that builders small jobs and cabinets too!!!
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I was twelve years old when my parents moved our family because of a job change for my father. We moved into a newer subdivision so I was able to watch the carpenters at work. That's when I knew what I would do with my life. My parents thought that I should use my mind and not my body to make a living, so they pushed me towards college. While occupying a seat at college I saw an article on a three week course on homebuilding. I promptly left college and went to school for three weeks. My first job was working on condo minimums. Thank god I didn't believe that was how all construction was done. I wouldn't make my dog live in one of those. 15 years later and I'm still loving what I do. BTW I went back for the degree, couldn't disappoint the parents.
*In 1968, I drove up to this great big framing crew up in the Valley looking for work and just got laughed at. As I was backing around to leave, the boss spotted the Kansas tag on the back of my old beater and shouted me back and hired me. A large California framing crew was a good introduction to the trade. So good that I decided to go to college. But I got drafted. Framer-- student-- doorgunner,etc. A few years back, I had a good job in the health care field and my resume said I had a lot of "surplus skills". And they pays the bills.
*I got fired from a structural steel job (nobody likes a smartass). My friend's dad was acarpenter and offered me a job.Blue
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Aloha, Blue
I can't believe that you're a smart-ass!LOL.
I was working for Lockheed, fueling airplanes at Honolulu International when 2 friends of mine started a small construction company. I went to work for them part-time, and was hooked. worked with a hard-drinking old-timer for a couple of years ( rest in peace, Bill) who taught me everything that I know and been doing it ever since. That was 27 years ago. And what a long, strange trip it's been! Ken Russell (and I don't drink that much anymore, either!)
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My father was an attorney, and it was simply understood that any of us children could grow up to be whatever we wanted, as long as it was something you needed a four year degree to do.
So of course I majored in English, having no idea what I wanted to do. Out of college I ended up working in the pizza business (still having no idea) and franchised my own stores. Seven years later things went south and I sold out.
Bounced around a bit, then did the inspecting for the local public housing authority. That was an eye opener. Saw repeated examples of shoddy work for lots of money and heard stories of no work for lots of money.
After fifteen months, when it was clear that I wasn't getting along with my superiors very well, I quit and declared myself a handy-man. I KNEW I could do better work than what I saw. I quickly found out that I LOVE doing this stuff.
Rich Beckman
*I was working as a journey man electro-plater in a shop.Surrounded by un-insulated copper bus-bars with 6,000-7,000 amps(DC) running through them, thousands of gallons of floor level acid baths(chromic acid and inhibited hydrochloric acid with the odd batch of sulphuric thrown in just for laughs) Every thing in the shop was covered with lead oxide,and I was afraid that the hydrogen gas (a by product of the plating process) would be ignited by a spark(6,000 dc amps makes a heck of a short). Can you spell Hindenburg? Anyhow, Roofing sounded safer and cleaner. Good Luck, Stephen P.S. I never dream about falling off of roofs,but a still sometimes wake up dreaming I fell in the acid tank
*Stephen,Twice in my life I have had work that was too intense with too much continuous danger that apparantly I subconsciously needed to stop being a part of...And had dreams where all would go wrong!!...So nice to get out of those situations and stop the "wake up" call.Now I definitely pay attention to whether sleep is peaceful...J
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I'm not sure I belong here, not being a guru (and paying the bills by it) like you guys, but here goes. My dad got me hooked. He was raised in rural Oklahoma and could (and still can) build anything. Mom got me hooked on the cerebral side of buildings (architectural historian by training, storyteller by talent). I knew when I was six or seven I would be a designer/builder. keep getting sidetracked but getting closer all the time. Now I have another generation following me. My almost four year old daughter watches building shows with me and whenever she sees framers, she says she wants to do that! This is the part that makes me the proudest! She has her own workbench and tools, drags them all out to 'help' me - life can't get much better than that.
*i got my start following dad and grandpap just wanted to be like them!! all i wanted for my 7th birthday was a hammer. i still got it . i don't make my living building anymore, some days i wish i did.Lisa life doesn't get any better then that, i know my 22 year old still likes to help dad.
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I want to know, how do you get out?
*Buy AOL stock every time you even think of buying a tool...You'll retire with a million plus in five years.Near the stream,J
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I'll start by stating, I'm not a professional contractor. But I envy many if not all of you. Not a day goes by when I wish I had the 'guts' or bank savings to make a clean break from my life as a software development manager to become a builder, remodeler, handyman, furniture maker, etc. Having a terrific family, two children, two mortgages a car and truck make that change difficult though. I know life out there isn't always a bowl of cherries, but the satisfaction from creating,fixing and building is immeasurable.
Until I work up the nerve to become a part time paid carpenter (while keeping my other job to pay for my own home improvement addiction and gas for my Bronco)I guess I'll remain envious of you all.
Any ideas how to make that break at 36 with so much at stake?
Matt
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Matt Haas,you are 36 now, It won't be any easier at 37or38 or39....If you are going to do it this will require the cooperation of your whole family.You would probably need to sell your current house and get one with a much more affordable mortgage.Same thing with the vehicles. It would be a huge help if your wife was employed and your children young enough that they didn't really notice the down scaling of your finances.
In all likelihood it will be to difficult for you to leave the lifestyle of a "software developement manager" and start over again learning a trade from the ground up.It will take years of experience for you to approach the income you now recieve,and will it really be fair to ask your family to adapt.(how will your wife explain it to her friends). If you are really serious about this I suggest you read a book called " How to survive without a salary" (or job or something like that) I will try to remember the author,but I think it was Charles Long. Good Luck,Stephen P.S.this was really something you should have done in your 20's
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I got my start in the trades when my parents asked the fellow who was doing their kitchen remodel if he would hire me on to help "just through their project" seven years later and I was still on his crew. Started my own company and decide I was'nt the boss type so now I work solo on small to mid-size remodel work. I still remember cutting right through the top of my dads brand spanking new workmate with the worm-drive on that first day on the job...sigh :)
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Matt, are you sure? Really, really sure? If you're lucky, your hands will get so gnarled that you won't be able to do much more than "peck" at a keyboard.
*Matt, make the hard choice, and get rid of your debts first.Once you are depending on the contractor's check, you'll figure out how to make it!Blue
*Where is Jack? I should think he would have a few things to say to Matt Haas.
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Hey, I didn't need any wise ass answers from anyone. Thought I'd share my feelings - and BTW I am quite capable in all phases of remodeling - so those quick to answer about years of experience shouldn't pat themselves on their back too quickly. I never said I was an expert in all things, and I never said anyone in the business has it easy. What I said was I envy many of you - maybe that's because I am 36 and it is difficult to make a change now?
Maybe it's some of the people that keep me from making the decision to leave what I do now. Just because I don't do it full time doesn't mean I'm not a capable carpenter or anything else.
To those that responded sincerely, without attitude, thanks for your thoughts. I think one of my biggest fears is working on a stranger's home, even though I am pretty confident in my abilities. If in my own house or a family member's house costs overrun or I make a mistake that delays a project, there's alot less explaining to do. That first step is the tough one for me - even if it were only part time.
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I am not a pro either, and I have a good career which I have and do enjoy. What these guys do full time is very hard work, on thin margins with the craziest help you ever want to see. Figure out what you make per hour, what your expenses really are and you will start to appreciate your career. Still, I was a mathematician and have done some of my own programming and building something you can touch is satisfying. Good luck, and be easy on the guys here. Their human relations skills have been polished in a world that is far different from yours.
Dennis
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Dennis,
I understand all of that and I do appreciate my career. All through college and part of high school I worked in the commercial HVAC business - so it's not like I was never exposed to the other side. I also have done 99% of the remodel work in my current house. Believe me, I know it's a hell of alot different working for myself! What I can't stand is people who feel sorry for themselves - those who answered so quickly about how hard their job is, those who think I have to be a tie wearing manicured yuppie because I'm not a professional in their industry - they are the one's who you probably don't want doing any work for you. If you don't like what you do you probably don't do it well! I guess I picked the wrong forum - I'll keep my questions and comments technical from now on. Thanks for your thoughts - maybe I am out of my league - at least I am grateful that I can continue to subscribe to this magazine and continually learn new methods and techniques from those willing to share their skills and knowledge.
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So try the best of both worlds. Construct on the week-end on small projects. The exercise is great and it beats the heck of the gym. Frustration is doing somethig well, coming here and finding out how good things really can be done. It is slowly dawning on me that just because I only take one project every two or so years, that is not all bad. More might make it work and take the fun out of it. Oh, and as far as taking it easy on the guys, I really didn't mean that - they do just fine taking care of themselves. What I meant was that read the content of their replys, not the tone. One seems to get over the flaming after a bit and just go on learning.
Dennis
*Matt; You're in NY, Jump in...the water's fine. Make sure you're wearing your life jacket or flotation suit. Anyone in Ontario should think again. 70% taxes, Framers are lucky to get 3.00/sq', that includes rough in and windows.Regrettingly filing my tax return...L
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Dennis,
You bring up a great point - and that's exactly what I've been doing for the last 3 or 4 years. Not exactly always small projects, my wife and I totally remodeled our basement last year with a separate art center for our two boys (and us!)- walls, plumbing, electrical, lighting, windows, floor, etc. Two years ago we redid a small family room down to the studs, new wiring, lights, skylight, ceiling, doors, custom built-in entertainment center and a slider onto the patio. And this all must go on while not ignoring two fanatastic children. Tremendous amount of satisfaction - but you're right, maybe if it wasn't my house and I didn't enjoy the results every day, it would become work - not fun! My apologies for appearing so flippant about changing careers - I didn't mean to offend anyone. Just as I'm sure no one meant to offend me. Later - Matt
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I moved across country to Massachusetts and answered an ad saying, "Established contractor busy, needs more help. Willing to train." They got lots of calls. It was a solar installation company (1984) with a couple of interesting approaches. They took the bighter-eyed and bushier-tailed half of the applicants and sent them out with a crew for 1-5 days. The crew decided if they wanted to keep the new guy or not. Only kept 1 in 7 on average (1 in 14 overall). Since everyone was getting paid by the job, you'd only okay someone who going to be at least as productive as yourself.
If you made the cut, you were expected to learn about 40 bits of knowledge and skills from a detailed list in the next two weeks (prepare mounting hardware, properly sweat copper pipe, explain where 50/50 vs 95/5 should be used, etc.) And then you'd get $50/job, about $5-6/hour, (adjusted upward for more panels, longer runs, steep roof, etc.) When you completed the next set of skills, you got another $10/job, on through 6 skill levels (explain the system behavior when the upper thermocouple is open circuited, construct a tube-in-tube hot water pick-up for a combo solar-wood stove system, etc.). The crew leader did the training and got an extra day's pay when someone advanced. Worked really well. I advanced once a month (2-3 faster than most) because the guys I worked with knew and could explain the hands-on portion and my schooling and experience (some Chem Eng and computer building/repair) covered the theory and electronics nicely.
After that, some framing, too much drywall, electrical (fun), back to plumbing (yea!), environmental technician operating clean-up equipment while returning to school (Chem Eng), engineering work, PE in Civil. Bought a house in Seattle and could remodel for myself and now, land in Alaska, so I can build for myself.
*Matt-I'm an elementary teacher and very part-time remodeler and own home-builder. I applaud you for seeking a change in your life style. Would any one in your area be willing to take you on in a mentorship type program and for you work part time in software management? Best of luck to you.Terry
*lonecat,Matts skin is waaay tooooo thin to deal with me or for that matter clients and all the coddling involved.Glad he was able to figure this out in a few posts here for his families sake...Near the stream,J
*I agree jack! i went back to see who flamed him and nobody did!Matt, take a deep breath!Blue
*Matt,I was 39 years old when I declared myself a handy-man. My previous experience at DIY was extremely limited. I got work mostly from friends, but also from people that found my number on the grocery store bulletin boards. When I was new to a particular job, I made sure the client knew that, I researched the procedure carefully, I worked carefully, and I didn't charge much.I could never have done this without the tremondous support of my wife, who is employed and does a great job of stretching a dollar.Four years later, I have made very little money, but I have acquired a lot of skills and happy customers.And I have never been happier.Stephen's post (#20) makes a lot of sense. You could do that. Or you could start with small jobs on the weekend. Do quality work, and don't charge too little.Rich Beckman
*Matt,I'd have to disagree with Stephen about it not getting any easier to quit your job and do this as you get older. When you're 46 or whatever and your kids are grown and, unless you're an idiot or exceptionally unlucky, your balance sheet is prettier, it'll be alot easier to do what you want.In the meantime make yourself some doable but challanging projects and expand your skills. If you enjoy remodeling, you might find it even more enjoyable to remodel something that nobody (especially you and your family) is living in. I was in a position similar to yours 20 some years ago. I found I could get very favorable terms on houses that were not bank financible, change their status and sell them. Do your homework.Good luck, JonC
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Jon,
I think you paint the most realistic picture. Maybe I will find myself in a nice warm workshop building furniture somewhere around 2010 - 2020! Maybe I'll have time and money to to do some contracting - and I have to tell you guys, the guy who put the new roof on my house is a retired cop in his early 50's. He has more contracting work now than he can handle, he drives a brand new GMC his wife an Infinity, he contracts because he ENJOYS it! He's good, he's reasonable, and he's a really nice guy. He's the one I really envy, although he worked two or three jobs most of his early years. Point is, if I keep myself busy, keep learning new skills, when I'm ready to 'retire', maybe I can retire to do what I enjoy now as a hobby.
In the meantime, the idea I toyed with (very little) is your idea of the remodel of unoccupied homes - I think I'll do some more research in that area.
Thanks for your thoughts.
Matt
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Everything sounds pretty good now, Matt. I hope to retire (maybe semi-retire) this year and do some things I enjoy. If you catch me doing a ROOF for anybody because I enjoy it, please shoot me off the roof.
*In 1963 my dad found me at their country club, playing poker with the caddies (and losing). Mom immediately got me a job with the local high end contractor, way before the term was invented. I was going to clean mortar off used bricks. A penny a piece. One day the boss asks me if I'll go help the masons on his personal house. $2.50/hr. Man I jumped at it. Those bricks were getting boring. Turns out, the boss' house is a three story stone Pennsylvania farm house. A copy of my parents abode, 'cause they wouldn't sell it to him. The masons turned out to be an all Amish crew. They were just getting past the second floor. My job was to get the right ( there were a lot more wrong ones on the job than right ones) stones up to them. These guys cracked rocks faster than they could crack jokes. They were cracking up all day long, and by the end of the day the amount of stone laid was phenomenal, and none of it seemed like work. Even getting the stones and mortar up to them seemed like a joke. I have still never seen better craftsmen, or had more fun while actually working.I'm a carpenter now . I've never forgotten how exacting those guys were, in working and goofing off. You should try eating lunch with them!They showed me pace is everything, and you got to know what good is.
*b Down the twisted road of lifeMy grandfather was a builder who did most of the houses around here in the country. As a young kid I was dragged along to help clean up and such. I learned to sharpen saws and tools from him. Growing up I worked with uncles and such in this work and couldn't wait to leave this hick town and see the world. Joined the army saw the world returned and picked up my hammer and went back to work again. I get a strange feeling when I get to go back and work on a house or building that he did. It gives me a chance to see how things have stood the test of time Now adays seeing all the new faces and youngers(still in that class myself)I thing back to all the older carp's who helped me learn what I know today. Some of these guy's are still around and I stop by to say hello, and here how they did things years ago..............b did I tell you about when we got the first skill saw ?????
*Did you start with handsaws?!!Blue
*No Blue I'm not that old yet. I still carry a hand saw and yes i like it sharp and I like to take money from guy's who think that a skill saw is the way to go all the time.( Want to bet some milk bones? you can use your 7 1/4 skill saw and I'll use my hand saw on a 4x4 post and I'll beat you through it.) I know some old carps who remember when skill saws came out and we won't start on that new stuff called plywood.
*I worked in machine shops during highschool and college and was doing it again after I got out of the Navy. A friend asked me to turn some giant finials for a Victorian store facade. I wound up helping him finish the facade and I liked the wood-working. He said he had several contracts lined up and wanted me to join him. I did, and before any work started, all the jobs fell through. We scrambled up some wood sign work and became a carved Redwood sign company. In two years, my buddy quit to sell real estate ('79 real estate boom). My girlfriends uncle was a union business agent and he signed me into the carpenters apprenticeship program (Calif Local 1280). It's been uphill, under the house, in the attic and all over the place since then.
*Matt, he's a retired cop in his 50s? Lets see... that makes him a "Tier One" retiree, with 50% of his last three years average pay as a pension... Anyone able to do construction with a $30K +/- check coming in the mail, with bennies included...raise your knarly old hand. Hell, even in CANADIAN, that's a good start.
*Don't bet him Blue, he'll have the post out in a vacant lot... no electricity. God, he's getting crafty... in his old age!
*Ok, it's a bet, two milkbones!Whats so hard about cutting a 4x4? Did you mean a 6x6?Blue
*Evidently you haven't heard about cordless saws, and generators.that's a good one though!Blue
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Started as a floor covering apprentice and things just escalated from there. Now 13 yrs later I have built everyting from garden shacks to federal prisons and still going. :-)
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Do your math, charge more - much more and you will find that you make much more, and enjoy it more. The increase in fees goes directly to the bottom line. In my career, I have never gouged, nor cheated anyone, but I have charged less than I was worth. There are fewer and fewer people who can make somethig, you can have a good living.
Dennis
*Been several years since I was in your great country. But, as I recall, reading a paper at the Frontenac, sipping scotch (Glennlevit) your country has more $100 bills in circulation that can be accounted for by regular commerce. Seems someone up there is working off the booksLove Quebec and the Maritime provinces.Dennnis
*It sounds strange to someone who has to hit the nail. But when you can do it for fun, deduct it, and get paid for it, it is not bad. It's great exercise(I would only do low ranches of less that 2,000 ft sq in favorable weather). Well, you are starting to get the idea. I have seen a number of guys retire to golf on a golf course. The ones I know have high bloold pressure (too many drinks after the game) and reallly don't enjoy the game that much anymore. So they go to Florida, drink and don't enjoy the game there. I love to build, but when I am tired, I take a nap. Dennis
*Glad to see you are in a union. For a working man, it is the only way to go. My brothers' in law are pipe fitters and carpenters. Hard work, take its toll, but at least you have a pension and health benefits at the end.Dennis
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I am now a carpenter's assistant with a maintenance shop and happened upon the job under the category of "necessity is the mother of invention". I had a steady job with the military but due to the drawdown, had to get out after 17 years. I have always enjoyed working with wood, metal, and getting dirty. Getting the resume done and the interview and getting hired was a matter of the right time and right place and the "necessity" was easily conveyed. Since getting out of the military, I have worked for two years as an assistant, but based upon what I can do and have shown, I am sent on jobs by myself and am happy with the responsibility. Presently, I and the rest of our crew are renovating our second building (a hotel with 50 rms) in Stuttart, Germany later to be used for visiting Americans and local workers like myself looking for a clean place to stay. I know who will be pouring a lot of concrete, running for water and lunch, carrying tools, etc. as I am still the new guy. Its all water under the bridge, the learning process goes on and its important to have a sense of humor.
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... and don't forget the many perks of white-collared life. Guaranteed paycheck for showing up and going through the motions. Benefits. No risk of losing your fingers & limbs unless you try to unjam the xerox. Weatherproof. Great shot at retirement.
The grass is always greener... Carpentry, roofing, esp. masonry are hard on the body & tend to burn people up if they stay on the front lines.
*Was this old Skil the one that ran over its own cord?You're on for the 4x4 -- I have one of the middle-size Skils -- what the bet?
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I reponded to a Help Wanted Ad that read: Floor Installer Helper needed; must have van.
I paged him and he called me back.
He needed a helper with a van for two reasons.
First, he needed a van and someone to drive him around (he had lost both his driver's license and van), and as an exchange for using my van he would train me as a floor covering installer and split the profits 50/50. WHAT A DEAL!!!
The second reason he needed someone was that he needed to install some vinyl flooring in an occupied residential job. The problem was the house was occupied by 26 cats and an old women. The house smelled real bad and he couldn't find anyone who wouldn't throw-up. In fact his first words on the phone were " Hows your stomach?" This particular job paid $50.00/hr and if I could do this project without throwing up( and if we got along) the floor covering job was mine.
I showed up with rubber gloves and an organic vapors mask.
This house was gross and there were cats everywhere.The walls and floors were saturated with cat piss and there was cat shit everywhere, on the counter tops, on top of the frig, piles of it EVERYWHERE!!!. ( I'm not exaggerating!)
Anyway... I survived and the rest is history.
I now own my own flooring company.
Michael Cibor
Universal Floor Company
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Andrew, if you're going to do a man's job, get a man's saw! Two seconds, three tops! Can you handsaw quicker than that?
Blue
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I started out as a laborer on a rough crew for my two uncles when I was 15.It felt like I carried lumber for two years straight but,eventuly I picked up on things. I've done a couple of remodes in that very same sub in the last couple of years and drive by those houses we worked on and can picture us there like it was yesterday.