Replies

1. 
   The_Machine | Sep 22, 2000 09:00am | #4

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   Mary,

   Stone is the long term solution. Six inches deep, with landscape fabric beneath. Slope the grade away from the house, 1' rise, 12' run. Many shrubs and groundcovers can withstand a surrounding of stone and pummeling rain if you don't like thelook of stone alone.

   The Machine

2. 
   Guest_ | Sep 22, 2000 09:50am | #5

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   "how do you know if you need gutters?"

   IMHO, Look and see if you have a roof. If so, yes, you do.

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   Guest_ | Sep 22, 2000 02:37pm | #6

   *mary.. we have about 33 inches of rain in a normal year..we'll be up to about 50 this year.... i always design our projects without gutters.. and with a 3 foot overhang there is NO REASON why you should have gutters..here's a picture of our office in a heavy downpour....there is NO ditch whatsoever..if you protect it until the grass gets a good start.. in this case we sodded around the building and the brick walks (about '95).......and seeded the restb but hey , whadda i no ?

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   Guest_ | Sep 23, 2000 01:46pm | #7

   *Half-round gutters look pretty good on a Craftsman house. I've seen a couple of them and they're really not objectional, even on exposed rafter tails.No way I'd use regular ogee gutters, though, on this style houseBill

1. 
   Guest_ | Sep 24, 2000 01:52am | #8

   *Mary, box gutters are an option. I would never not use gutters unless I was building on top of a hill (sloped away from all 360 degrees). keep that water away from those footers.

3. 
   Jeff_Cain | Sep 24, 2000 06:48pm | #9

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   Mary,
   Make sure you check your local building code.

4. 
   Guest_ | Sep 24, 2000 10:48pm | #10

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   jeff, why should she do that ?... is there something in there about gutters ?

1. 
   Guest_ | Sep 24, 2000 10:51pm | #11

   *<>Take a 30x40 structure and a 1" rain; you'll be bringing 840 gals off the roof structure, which eaquals about 6 gal per linear foot, assuming gable ends.Some folks consider that a reason.I suspect that the cost of contolling the water at ground level to avoid it collecting around the foundation and footers may be significantly higher than installing gutters and downs.

1. 
   Guest_ | Sep 24, 2000 11:00pm | #12

   *dear bob.. if you have the overhang... you should also have the rest of the water handling plan...if your colecting your water with gutters .. you're still handling it.. where are you sending it ?well that is the same place you send it without gutters...what makes you think gutters are needed to control water off a roof ?and why do they have 3 ft. overhangs if they want to put gutters on...your reaction is knee jerk... gutters are just one more method of trying to control roof runoff.. they are not the be-all and end-all..good drainage, a grading plan, landscaping, roof overhangs...why would you have to add gutters to that ?b but hey, whadda i no

1. 
   Guest_ | Sep 25, 2000 05:50am | #13

   *Mike, I'm sending it at least 10' from the house perimeter, preferably to a drywell or storm drains (everything's pretty flat in my area, not many places to send it to daylight.)I don't see many houses in my area without gutters, and even fewer w/ 3 foot overhangs, but the ones I see without the gutters have always had moisture problems in the subgrade spaces. (I inspect about 500 - 600 houses a year, only see 2 - 3 a year without 'em. I see plenty w/ gutters that have moisture problems, but they always lack downspout extensions. Of course, that's different, because they're concentrating 200 -300 gallons at each downspout location per inch of rain.)<> Design considerations and keeping water off the walls.Are moisture problems inevitable? Probably not, but likely, in my experience.Bob

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   Guest_ | Sep 25, 2000 12:58pm | #14

   *Mike,checking the local building code is a valid point.I can see from the picture you posted that you have quite a bit of space to deal with the grading and run-off issues involved with a "gutterless" installation.It also sounds like the original poster has a lot of space to work with.A lot of people don't have the same luxury of space.I know in my town,a lot of the older houses are built on 40 x120 lots.Often the houses are less than 10 ft apart,and sometimes you can actually touch 2 houses at the same time.throw a driveway and a patio into the mix and you have pretty much eliminated the possibility of the type of installations you propose.given this type of situation you can be sure that a lot of towns have building codes specifically dealling with gutters,downspouts,etc.Some towns will insist that the downspouts be connected with storm sewers. Other towns lack the waste water treatment capacity needed and so will forbid such a hookup. Still others grandfather in old hookups,but forbid new installations.So,all in all,I would be carefull implying that anyone with a 3 ft. overhang doesn't need gutters.good Luck all,Stephen

2. 
   Guest_ | Sep 25, 2000 04:29pm | #15

   *stephen... i would never imply that anyone with 3 ft. overhang doesn't need gutters..i'll restate it..gutters are typically a kneejerk reaction to the problem of what to do with roof water..they are only one part of the menu of how to solve these problems..in 25 years i've never had a house we designed .. nor an addtion we put up that had gutters.. and all our crawl spaces.. are dry and so are our basements..we always had full control of grading.. and finish landscape on those jobs...and we've got terrible drainage problems and high water tables.. so i became aware of the need to manage water real fast..... i did have one customer who installed gutters after he bought the house.... i guess he thought, as many do,.. that houses are supposed to have gutters... he didn't need them.. he may have wanted a diverter over the front door.. but he didn't need gutters.. he needed a sump-pump.. cause of the high water table every spring... nothing to do with roof run-off...in most older small communities.. the storm sewers and sanitary sewers are combined.. and the ordinances forbid dumping roof drains into the sewers.. they even come around and smoke test the sewers to find out who is hooked up and then force them to remove the connection..gutters are not in the building codes.. they may be in sewer ordinances.. or other municipal ordinances..and you do have a good point about in-town lots with no room for splash and run-off.... i would guess we've installed 5,000 ft of gutter since i've been in business.. wood , aluminum, copper, galvanized, and vinyl... but not on anything i had design input on...b but hey , whadda i no ?however , that is NOT what is being dicussed...

3. 
   Guest_ | Sep 25, 2000 05:41pm | #16

   *Mike,I see your points,and in fact---given the option,Iwould prefer not to have gutters on my own house.The sad fact is that a lot of people with older houses have less than total controll over the grading issues.In situations like ours,well thought out gutter and downspout systems are a very cost effective way to handle the problem.the building code/municipal ordinance point is in effect merely a matter of semantics.either way there is a government body deciding the issue for the homeowner.When push comes to shove does it make much difference if the water dept.,building department,health department forces the decision on you?Also,I don't think you are implying that a 3 ft. overhang negates the need for gutters.I am pretty sure that a lot of people,however, will seize any excuse to rid themselves of the hated sheet metal.They will half remember reading"somewhere" that if they have a 3 ft. overhang they don't need gutters.In other words,they will believe what they want to believe.Luckily,I don't live next to them!BTW gutter work is such a low profit,high PITA activity that I avoid it like the plague.Sometimes though you gotta do what you gotta do.What I do is charge what now works out to $4-5 plus dollars a foot.This eliminates bargain hunters who try to tell me that $1.80/ft. is the going rate,and insures that I only have to do gutter work 15-20 times a year. maybe I otta bump my rate up to $8-10/ft.,then I would never have to touch the stuff.Good Luck All,Stephen

4. 
   Guest_ | Sep 25, 2000 07:25pm | #18

   *steve. (( maybe I otta bump my rate up to $8-10/ft.,then I would never have to touch the stuff. ))..that 's what they're gettin.. the $2/ ft. guys get it back on extras...we studied our labor production on gutters and started charging what it costs us plus our regular mark-up..now gutters are part of the profit picture just like everything else we do...we still lose jobs to the slam-bangers... but we don't lose any sleep...and when we get the job.. we get to put the extra effort in that pays off in compliments.....b but , you already knew that..

5. 
   Guest_ | Sep 25, 2000 07:25pm | #17

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   We are building an arts and crafts/prairie style home with hip roofs. The overhang is about three feet and we are currently deciding whether or not we should go with gutters or an underground drainage system. The house is in an open field surrounded by woods and eventually we plan to landscape our from the side of the house. My concern is that our current home does not have gutters and we end up with pits in the mulch where the rain cascades off the roof, especially in heavy downpours. I don't like how gutters look, especially with the type of home we're building, but I don't want trenches in my landscaping. How do I decide which way to go?

1. 
   Guest_ | Sep 22, 2000 01:30am | #1

   *How far along is your project?It sounds like you won't like it with gutters andyou won't like it without gutters. Therefore, the right thing to do is reconsider the whole design. Maybe gable ends, maybe a flat roof with parapet walls? - either would give you at least some walls with neither gutters nor the kind of runoff that leaves erosion marks.-- J.S.

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   Guest_ | Sep 22, 2000 02:21am | #2

   *How about built-in gutters? If you can afford to be picky its the way to go.

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   MArkK | Sep 22, 2000 03:22am | #3

   *I have the same issue with my current house. I am in the process of taking off the gutters, repairing rotten wood at the corners and repainting. I am not putting the gutters back up and have installed drains at the highest flow areas. We use pine straw as mulch around the house and it does leave a small impression at the drip line. You might want to consider stone as a topping. White and tan in a size bigger than pea gravel. 1" or so. There is also a product which I looked into, its a rain dispersing device that attaches to the facia board and has a series of successive slats that allow the rain to cascade down gently. I don't have experience with these yet but the idea looks OK.