I’m curious how others apply CAD technology to their every day practices.
We’ve been getting into full frame 3d modeling of complex lodge style residences and have had pretty good results.
Anyone else out there using 3d modeling tools?
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I design sculpted concrete houses, and need 3D Renderings be/c clients will 90% of the time not be able to envision the residence from plans and elevations. Use animations with them, too, including solar animations to demonstrate the effectiveness of the overhangs.
Still, the software is better at the geometric shapes than the amorphous ones, which is making one current design awfully difficult. It'd be easier to build than draw, I'm finding...
Re your mention of using CAD to cut the timbers, there are computer controlled shotcrete guns, but they are not scaled or affordable for residential projects yet. Maybe some day.
kurt.. i use Chief to design all our projects
you can see one in Photo Gallery called ## Adverse Conditions ##
here's a before
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& after of a new front entry we did
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Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Edited 7/23/2006 5:49 pm ET by MikeSmith
Edited 7/23/2006 5:50 pm ET by MikeSmith
Edited 7/23/2006 5:50 pm ET by MikeSmith
Nice Mike. What did you use Chief for? Traditional plansets? 3d? Client Visualization?
we use it for all the above... but mostly for traditional construction drawing
and a lot of 3d perspectivesMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Mike, do you overlay new structure to the existing when showing clients?
yes... most of the time the hardest thing is building the existing model
once you have that , the new structure flows easilyMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
I've seen/heard of people using a digital picture for the orginal and then overlaying the new over the picture.
We've recieved images completed in that manner from a conservatory company we've used in the past.
I also did something similiar myself using 3-D studio in highschool. Would that type of layering work with Cheif?
>I've seen/heard of people using a digital picture for the orginal and then overlaying the new over the picture.I've done that with a new residential design over the image of their empty lot. It works well for helping the client visualize, but takes a bunch of time to do even half-well.
That was the assignment in h/s.
We "built" a building in 3-d studio, then had to overlay it onto a Jpeg of a landscape.
I imagine doing it with an addition onto existing house would be difficult at best
cag.. i can import any digital photo right into Chief
and manipulate it... enlarge / shrink / tilt
overlays are easy..
building a true 3d model is difficult but once you have it you can section it, walk around inside it , view it from any angle.. make it partially transparent
and place it in a terrain... all it takes is training and time
Softplan can do much the same.. so can Vectorworks and any of the true object based CAD programsMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Getting the scaling and alignment right is the tricky part. Mostly trial and error.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I think 3D modeling is a great tool, but people don't seem to be willing to pay for it. Heck, why should they? They can go to http://www.stupidhouseplans.com and print out a free "blueprint" on 8.5X11 paper and build a $200,000 house from that. Or go to wally world and buy a $20 program to draw their own house plan that's just as good as any architect would do. (At least they think they can)So pay someone a bunch of money to do a 3D model?
I have a nice body.
Its in my trunk.
I don't make it an option. It's just one of the deliverables they get when they get (stuck with) me. I don't do ala carte services, so they don't know the difference.
So (why) pay someone a bunch of money to do a 3D model?
Depends in part on the modeling program. Form-Z, Triforma, etc., can do renderings that look like a photo, but they take a lot of time. Sometimes projects require it for fund-raising, community meetings, proposals, etc., but the profit has to big enough to absorb the cost. Either that or it's a separate line item cost for the client (so they know the amount up front).
Something like SketchUp makes that time/cost factor a lot more attractive though. The final product is more basic but it's enough to get the point across.
A relatively new concept now is the all-in-one package. Autocad's Revit and Archicad make the model/floor plans/elevations all in one process. If a change is made on the model, it automatically changes the plans and elevations to reflect it.
then there's old farts like me who actually build models from chipboard and glue . . . clients love them but the interns look at me like they're watching a caveman starting a fire . . . .
There's also that laser activated resin process. The machine makes a 3D physical object. Interesting, but not ready for the mass market just yet.
-- J.S.
"There's also that laser activated resin process."They have that at Ohio State. Some of our interns have tried it but the material is too $$$ for anything much bigger than a softball.i saw an example at a firm once about 4 years ago. The manufacturer did a mock-up of a bar interior. All the stools, tables, etc. were there. It was still kind of primitive (the lines from the layering process were still visible), but very intricate. all that was missing was Jeff Buck sitting at at the bar, talking up a tranny . . . . ;)
There's also that laser activated resin process
Laser Resin Stereolithography is the process; a "small" resin "Rapid Prototyping" machine runs to $60K, and is 2-3 units about the size of a 25 CF Monogram reefer. All to turn out items not more than about 18 x 18 x 12" or so (oh, and the resin is extra).
There's an RP machine that uses a form of Plater of Paris that uses STI models, and may or may not make a decent master for "lost wax" (I've two reports, each exactly opposite <g>).
The coolest RP machine is one that's supposed to be coming out soon that uses a form of "lab metal" set in a two step process of laser & RF. Probably will be "cheap" at $75K . . .
A "2 1/2 D" "desktop" router is a bit more reasonable, only about $10-12K (footprint about 2 x 3 x 2). Most will work in EPS or in "balsa foam."
I haven't quite decided which one I'd get if I won the Lottery . . . <g>Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
I'd probably get a CNC Bridgeport mill first. And before that, a shop to put it in.... ;-)
-- J.S.
Yeah, the "desktop" RP machines are just a small CNC machine.
Just no (or very few) tool changers; and much harder to rig as a multi-point machine.
You also need some sort of G-code generation from your 3d model (which is several entire fora all by ist lonesome <g>).
The StereoLith machines are much nicer, al lyou need is a valid sti model. And a stout bit of electrical service (the RP machine blurb I found here recommends a 480V panel). Good ventilation; and a good credit line for materials <g>Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
interns look at me like they're watching a caveman starting a fire
LoL!
Even better when a person is good with "stone knives & buffalo skins" tech, and faster than the interns, too . . . Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
Heck, why should they? They can go to http://www.stupidhouseplans.com and print out a free "blueprint" on 8.5X11 paper and build a $200,000 house from that.
They could not get a municipal permit here with those plans, but there are some in the county who try the same thing.
The advantage to good plans to include 3D is that the client sees what they are getting before the building goes up (see Piffins post). It is a lot cheaper to draw, spec and print a set of plans than change on the fly becasue nobody really knew what to do.
Have you ever tried to get a rear or side elevation, framing plan, electrical plan, interior elevations, cross sections, cabinet plan, site plan, etc. from a free 8.5" x 11" ad print off the internet? There are lots of questions and potential pitfalls with those types of elements missing.
Internet plans can be a great value when buying the whole package, but they should always go thru a local building designer, architect or buillder for adjustments to code and local practise.
I know Boss, you are talking about your crazy local market.
That was the assignment in h/s.
We "built" a building in 3-d studio, then had to overlay it onto a Jpeg of a landscape.
I was in High School during the years of a a transfer of my father to Washington DC. from Memphis, TN 1964 - 1971. We lived in Northtern Virginia. I took 2 years of mechanical drawing and a year of a architectural drawing in High School.
CAD? Computers? JPEGs? We used T Squares, triangles, scale ruler and pencils.
we had an old drafting table with a mechanical arm on it in the corner... it was neat to look at ;)
It wasn't until I was in college that I did any real hand drafting on a table and a slide bar...
CAGIV,
We had no mechanical arms or slide bars, just a T Square and a square edge table.
Ah, the good old days....NOT! I love my Softplan full and newest Version 13. I have been working with Softplan since 1997 and Version 9, and I am still making discoveries of it's abilities.
As you may know, I am a 51 year old custom builder, and hope to continue and do more home and small project designs as I get older. Some of my CAD work can be seen in the New Home Texas Style thread.
Rain, rain and more rain here. Finish grading due on a house that should close soon, and a foundation to pour. La luvia es bueno por nada.
CAGIV....where do you get that handle? Pardon me if you have told us, but what do you do?
CAGIV are my initials, Cornelius A G. IV
What I do?
A little bit of everything I guess.
I'm employed by a Remodeling company, and more or less run day - day operations, I do sales/estimating, project management, some/minor field work, customer service, basically what ever needs to be done, I'll do.
"the hardest thing is building the existing model"A BIG AMEN!
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Many of the contractors with 2-6 carps I've worked with are using some version of a CAD program for construction drawings.
A slick way to get the benefits without the hastles is to hire someone with drafting skills to be the office person and answer phones. One contractor I worked for with 6 employees used this combination quite effectively and we would do autocad drawings for other contractors. Apparently, those jobs more than paid for 100% of the costs for the possition, so it's like getting ours done for free. It sure was handy having someone who could whip up something as needed.
finall got your CAD thread going!
I first got Softplan because the architects drawings were unintelligible to the average HO. I knew that with a 3D capacity, I could show customers what they were asking for or getting shoved at them before getting too far along in the process. I hate to be 60% finished with a 250,000 project and suddenly get hit with a ton of changes. They get to pay for them, but it brings bad ju-ju onto the job and momentum gets lost. it's easier to make the changes in CAD than to do it with a sawzall...
Alnog the way, I started "refining" the plans sometimes with the archy's blessing and sometimes diret to the owner. Almost always, the customers liked my ideas and refinments better, not just because of the 3D modeling, but because they could SEE the advantages.
Soon enough, several clients were coming straight to me for the design work as word got out. the program itself helps me to learn every detail of the house ( I do remo and reno, some with additions, but rarely a new one) as I creat the existing model while ideas begin to form about how to go about satisfyuing the client.
The 3D is more of a sales tool, with good renderings and light rays and shadows to make it realistic, especially when I incorporate a background from their property. It is also a good proof checker for me to see if I forgot anything or if I could improve anything...
SP has a cost module also. I don't use it for remo work bercause every material or unit item must be manually defined as being included in the price schedul. But on a brand new one, It is a very accurate list of materials to work from.
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
There's a big bit of gnawing on Revit versus ArchDeskTop as the "direction" of serious 3d modeling. No clear answers yet.
I'm seeing almost no use of 3d modleing in light commercial--but that can have as much to do with the consultants as anything else.
The real driving force, though, is that the final output, the definition of the contact for construction work, remains a 2d set of plans bearing all appropriate stamps, seals, and approvals (our sister city to the south requires at least one City-stamped set of plans on site as a requisite for Inspection (to help prevent approve-and-switch).
For my own use, I will use 3d as a design development tool for residential work--but that's not simple residences, either. It gets used as a sales tool, but more for resolving issues that can only crop up by modeling (if we put the can lights here, they can't shine there . . . )
Now, timber frame seems and interesting thing to model out. I can't say I've had much success with that--but that's as much a customer problem as anything else. (Yeah, I want an interior, decorative TF truss. Why'sit got so much iron on't? My guys don't do iron. Hey, wait, kin we make it outta 4x4, them big sticks is expensive . . . )
I've not looked in years, is there a decent on-line source for ATA data from which to model a structure?
I used to use Cadkey, a package very similar to AutoCad.
I now use Sketchup for most everything. Here is a little garage frame I doodled up during the Iraqi prime minister's speech this morning.
3D modeling helps me visualize my designs, and work out construction details. The pic attached here has notes added to it so my lumber supplier can quote the truss package.
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