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How does one become a Master Carpenter?
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You got to learn how to Booger things.
blue
*b WBA At Your ServicePerhaps at http://www.norm_abrams.com ?
*I think Doug Hubbard could help you with this question. I understand he's a master something or other. He should definitely be able to help give you a hand on the job description.
*Just call yourself one, I understand that is what happened with Norm Abrams. I read that when This Old House was developed, the show's producer decided he needed some type of a title for Norm, so he just decided to call him "Master Carpenter". You could probably go to court and have your name changed to: "Master Carpenter Machine" That way if someone challenges you, you can just say that's your name. (People have changed their names to far worse...)
*The quickest way is to print up some business cards. This entitles you to charge outrageous prices. Then you subcontract everything out. Not only does the job get finished but you get the credit. A new truck and some used tools lend credibility.
*You dont have to go to all that trouble S Edwards. Just print the title under your name in here. That's what I did!Master Carpenter Blue
*While there's no doubt some or all of the foregoing must be correct, I'm pretty sure there's no such thing as a master carpenter in Canada anymore. Only lowly journeymen, such as myself, certified after a provincial examination. A friend in Newfoundland told me he had a Master Joiner ticket, but I never did see it. I saw a picture a long time ago which I think was titled "the Master Carpenter" or some such thing. The original picture dated from the 1600's and showed and apprentice with a rope over his shoulder straining his guts out pulling a plane that must have been three feet long down the edge of a board while the master strolled along, guiding the plane. I wonder did that apprentice get sent to fetch skyhooks or left handed trunnel splitters.Ron
*The only certification that I know of is offered by me: Come and booger on one of my jobs, and if you can get the stuff balanced good enough to stand up in a 5 mph wind, I'll annoint you.blue
*To become a Master Carpenter you must follow the same guidelines as many other trades. Take for example, fishing. Most fishermen start out just manning the lines. Eventually they are brought into baiting the hooks. They are then called Apprentice Baiters. After experience and a hands on exam, they can get the title Master B....Get it - hook line and sinkerGotta go...Martin
*THATS RIGHT!
*Mr. Budgell,I've always thought there might be a bit of union thinking to go with that title. Apprentice, Journeyman, Master...some kind of hierarchy. Norm Abrams is a seemingly able man for the title, but who's really qualified to give such a title, the Queen? Master Carpenter, Knight of the saw table, Baron of the belt sander...Master Boogerer..er...er?Where would a guy take such a test? Probably more important, how much is the fee? The Machine
*This subject came up last year and the closest to a straight answer I read was really about the Cabinetmaking trade. After a period as a journyman, you could apply for "Master" status. One of the things you had to do to demonstrate proficiency was build a specific piece, your "master piece" (which probably became "masterpiece" as we use the word today). I think Adrian also told us that you couldn't hang your shingle and be in business until you reached this level. Do I have any of this right Adrian?At one time there might have been a similar requirement for carpenters, or the title "Master Carpenter" might never have carried the same clout as the cabinetry one did. I never did get that part straight.
*The term "Master" in the strict European tradition meant you a)completed a four or five year apprenticeship under a Master and his journeymen, and b)completed whatever tests and additional training might be required before you set out your shingle as a Master or operator of your business. Usually, among other things, it meant spending some time in several different shops, and making a 'masterpiece'. Similar for cabinetmakers and carpenters.Canada still has apprenticeships for cabinetmaking and carpentry; includes school time (one to two years, several ways to do it) , and on the job training....totalling 8-10,000 hours for carps and cabinetmakers. Then you can write the exam for journeymans papers, and call yourself a carp or a cabinetmaker, and now they have a Red Seal program where you can become certified interprovincially (most of the Canadians here are certified, I think; I'm licensed in Ontario, Nova Scotia, and now interprovincially with the Red Seal). Australia, NZ, etc, are similar.Alberta used to have a Master program, the result of lots of German prisoners of war in WW II emigrating here after the war and setting up a guild system; it meant two years of business training after your journeyman ticket, and it was the only place outside of Europe where you could legitimately call yourself a Master. I don't know if it is still going (it was when the guy I trained with was doing his apprenticeship in Alberta, so 15-20 years ago?), and I don't know if it was setup for carpenters.Anyway, 'journeyman' is one thing; I'm very careful about the term 'Master', because it means something very specific, and you can't just call youself one. Boogerin' excepted.
*Do you want some more old-fashioned language? apprentices used to sign articles of apprenticeship (if they could write) with the master and were known then as articled joiners, carpenters, wheelwrights, clerks and so on. As far as I know, only the lawyers have retained his usage and, like all the heretofores and whereases, I think the purpose is largely to encourage confusion among the rest of us. Anyway, Mr. Machine, we do have genuine apprentices here, though we're no longer allowed to beat them. As Adrian said, the hierarchy comes from the old European guild system which, in these corrupt days has been taken over by governments. You can write the test in any province of Canada and become a genuine Journeyman yourself, but you will have to go to school first. It will do you no good to claim you already know this or that, either. As for the fee, well, maybe I could make you a deal. How much do you think it would be worth?Ron
*Mr. M, a few questions:Are you in the US?Are you seeking Union employment?What have you accomplished to achieve Master status?In the US, only Licensed Trades, and some Union shops will provide "Master" tickets.A Master Plumber for example. The Carpenter's Union will have Apprentice, Journeyman and Master designations. Often a matter of time-in-place, available openings, and less so testing and accreditation.To be a Master... wether of a Ship-at-Sea, or a House-on-Land... you should be able to weather any storm. Can you do it all? Have you seen everything twice?For me, I've yet to see a real, live old-time Master.Those fellows who could arrive with all their tools in a hand-carried box, a toolbelt or apron, and could set about building a house from Sill to Rafter and everything in between.You qualify?
*Hey Machine,Here's a little tip from your Uncle Ed........Don't ever refer to yourself as a Master Carpenter while hanging out with other carpenters.....Just a little tip.Ed. Williams
*Right, Mr Machine, unless you got big balls and don't mind looking like a blowhard. Then, they'll nitpick the hell out of everything you say and do.I once knew a carpenter that had master carpenter on his card. Someday, if I ever really feel that I am one, I'll put that on my card too. I really don't know enough about interior trimming to claim to be a master. I do know a little about masterbati..oops I'm off the suject.....I would include the word master, on my card for marketing/selling purposes. At the present time, I claim to be a "custom rough carpenter", although I've recently been focusing more on production. I can do the custom stuff, but would rather not, if I can help it.Good advice Ed.blue
*Of course, in the "olde" apprenticehip system, the student wasn't paid; he received room, board, sometimes an allowance, and the promise to teach him the trade. As a matter of fact, sometimes an apprenticeship had to be purchased or their family had to pay a guild fee. A student who was paid was called an "intern". Depending on where you live, chartered accountants and architects article too. A couple of the teachers in the carpentry courses up at Georgean College call themselves "masters"; but, in the real world, there are only jobs for one class of carpenter, so the tag is disappearing.
*If you can build a 56' gaff rigged schooner with hand tools, I'll call you up and say "hello, master" everyday.gotta be all kinds of books you can look at about arts and crafts etc... that will make all but a few very humble about their current level of understanding. Just hanging out at this board has been a big slice of humble pie for me.master is an aspiration, but take heart. In one of those books about the art and craft of building, I saw an engraving: "the life so short, the craft so long to learn".I say enjoy what you do no matter what your current skill level, and don't worry about how much you know too much. This aint a title contest, at least not for this guy...The current task, as good as I know how. Find someone who is a master at something, and go to work for or with him or her. Maybe there are a series of lectures at the hall where you can get that title...
*Gentlemen,I'm not interested in attaching the title of master carpenter to myself, not even close. I frame homes and do some finer work real well. Not a master though. The service end of it, delegating, A$$ kissin', makin' the man happy, that's what I've mastered. Nobody really cares about that though...I've been compared to a used car salesman among this crowd before. Anyway, the guys we call "master carpenters" around here are hacks. I reckon I could probably get excepted into the school of boogerin' though, and maybe after a few more years, get a title like "master mechanical boogerererer".Talk about talkin' one's self up...there was a tough guy framer competition nearby recently, couldn't get myself to go. Anyone? Is this for real or just an excuse to toss back a few levels, er...beers?Thanks Gentlemen, most of my curiosity about Master carpenters has been satisfied.The Machine
*You sure I couldn't interest you in a very slightly used Journeyman ticket? Special deal - this week only - throw in a wornout Estwing at no extra charge.
*b WBA At Your ServiceWith the way the economy has been booming around here lately, our Philadelphia local is giving out Journeyman's cards like candy lately. We sell ourselves as qualified better than all others, yet I've noticed that the qualifications of the others are often not well enough checked before being accepted.
*What are the qualifications they are asking for?
*Mr. Budgell,"very slightly used"? "worn out Estwing"?These things make no sense!Nobody 'round here knows what a journeyman ticket is anyway.The Machine
*Around here, it takes only mosey to buy a card. Some do go through a formal apprenticeship with the union, but money is really all that's needed.blue
*I thought all you had to do to be the Master is snatch that little rock out of the blind chinese guy's hand.Pete "Grasshopper" Draganic
*Don't forget getting your arms branded !
*I wish the unions wouldn't do that. All the PR is about "union does it better", and the reality is a long way off. I like them in principle, and one of my best friends is vice president of the carpenters local (another friend is pres.), and they are a bit more strict, and working towards some good things, but we don't see eye to eye on a lot of stuff. Ontario was pretty lax; most of the public work requires licensed journeymen. One guy I worked with hired on with a forming crew that got an Ontario Hydro conttact. This guy was sent down to the hall, where they put him on the books as a fourth year apprentice; next week he got his journeymans card. Only tool he owned was an Estwing. The union here offers all kinds of free training in safety, new systems, hardware, etc; they have a hard time getting guys to show up.The provincial certification exams are pretty tough; pass rates are as low as 10% in some trades (I saw the current numbers when I was teaching; 10-40% pass rate depending on the trade is what I recall, and these were all people that had passed the in-school requirements). You have to get 70% on the test, and you are allowed one, maybe two more chances over time if you don't get it.
*Gentlemen,The certificate of "Master Carpenter" can be found directly under the "Holy Grail".I'm on my way, when I find it I shall write back.The never ending quest. I shall return.
*How to be a REAL Master Carpenter:Go to the desert......just southwest of Las Vegas. Find the large red and brown boulder that looks out of place. It will be between two scrub trees. Place both hands upon it and scream as loud as you can......"I AM A MASTER CARPENTER!!!".There...done.Happy now?It's official.For plumbers there is a boulder somewhere in Ohio. I'm not sure where it is exactly. Maybe Pete knows.Ed. Williams
*Mr. Williams,Sounds like an awful lot of trouble to go through, without a witness.Have they got traveling notaries in Vegas? Echoes of "...if a tree falls in the forest..."The Machine
*Not to beat a dead horse.....but I haven't seen it mentioned yet....among the Amish whose paths I've crossed, It's considered that a lead carpenter, no matter how skilled, old, and or experienced, can't call himself a "master carpenter" untill his father, presumably also a carpenter, passes on.Nice bunch of guys to work around for the most part. Not alot of loud storie tellin', but they sure know what wood working is really all about.on another subject, GO TENNESSEE TITANS !!!!!BeWell, PB
*Someday I'd like to be bestowed with the title of Master Carpenter.' Unfortunately I don't belong to a union, I'm not Norm, my father is not Amiss and he certainly is not a dead carpenter considering all the work I've done on his house to this day. Maybe I can be a Master Carpenter' when all my work is mistake free, all my estimates are to the penny, when my lumber pile is dry and high,when all my clients only call back for referrals,when my tools are always sharp, when I always have the right sized nail,when weekends are time off, and every job turns a profit under time and under budget. Then , maybe then ,the carpenter fairy will sprinkle me with magic sawdust (from a ground up ,twisted,bowed 2x4 somebody put dead center in the framing of the last kitchen wall I had to install maple cabinets on) and bestow upon me the coveted title of Master Carpenter.'
*Mr. Abramshe,AMEN!The Machine
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How does one become a Master Carpenter?