– Is your follow-up consistently prompt and attentive?
– Do you strive to keep your knowledge current in your chosen field?
– Are your estimates usually accurate?
– How hard would it be to catch you in a lie?
– Do you exploit the vulnerablities of your clients?
– Would your employees defend your character?
– Would you inflate your profit on one job to try and make up for a loss on another?
– Do you insist on permits and minimal code requirements regardless of the project size or nature?
– If you were a young apprentice just entering the trades, would you be fortunate to have you as a mentor?
– How many of your former customers would likely have no reservations about hiring you again?
– Would most of your peers view you as a “professional”?
– When your career has ended, will you be hard to replace?
Just some thoughts for personal reflection.
Michael
New knowledge is priceless.
Used knowledge is even more valuable.
Replies
add - "Do you think you have responsibilities to the profession?"
Responsibilities like nurturing the next generations. Like representing the profession in a positive way. Like dealing with other business people - suppliers, subs, employees, other contractors, inspectors, architects for example - with respect.
Huck said it first. I just agreed with him.
jim,
you have an intersting question there---------" responsibilities like nurturing the next generations"-------------------
Actually this morning---in our local newspaper----a notice of an open house put on by the local carpenters union training center---in order, I suppose, to attract applicants
It caught my eye----because in the early 1980's--- i tried REPEATEDLY to get into that union and access that training---with no success. No reflection on the union-------just very different economic conditions here in the '80's
so for 25 years-- i have been handicapped to a degree by lack of the specific training I felt I needed
instead--- i got married, bought a house-----fixed it up---read a lot of books---made some mistakes--------and a long the way neighbors started asking me to fix THEIR houses------and 25 years later here I am-----------
so----who do I have the responsibility to?-----if anybody-----it's to my neighborhood which supported me for 25 years
it's certainley not to a non-existant mentor
and I don't see a responsibility to hire a youngster I don't NEED--and train him.
Perhaps that youngster should just read a few articles, read some books-----and learn the way I did--------or even better---get himself over to the unions training program and get the training I COULDN'T get---and wish I had??????
but do I personally have a training responsibility in this?????? No, i don't really think so.
stephen
I guess everyone who grows up in single parent homes could take a similar approach to parenting, but I think society benefits when people don't. Likewise, I think our profession benefits when veterens take responsibility to train the next generation. In fact, I think it's part of any profession.
Huck said it first. I just agreed with him.
MW
I'd like to think with the feedback I've gotten over the 35 yrs in the biz that I am good. Now.
Before "now", I was pretty good.
The desire to learn, common sense and a conscience have served me pretty well. I live for my name and reputation and as a result, my customers have benefitted and kept me in business.
Please know that I don't speak with conceit, but with the pride that comes with rewarding accomplisment. Many of us here I think would do the same.
But, you can't rest on your laurels. Constant study and learning are in your future if you expect to keep up.
There's a story I could tell of this carpenter I met at the beginning that I only imagined could be me some day. Hopefully, some day.
But then again, this from a dumb carpenter.
Best of luck on your project.A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
Sorry Jim, couple beers, pizza and some babes at the Idiot.
edit: How bout them seahawks!
Wedding fast approaches? Our best to the new couple!
A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
Edited 7/20/2007 10:49 pm ET by calvin
jim,--i don't quite see the parenting analogy-------------
and---unless i mis-read you---- you seem to posit that we have an OBLIGATION to employ and train others----which i would flatly reject.----a solo operator---like Stan Foster isn't a professional?
i am pretty leary of a line of reasoning that seems to say" I am professional because i am doing what I already WANT to do----but you folks aren't professional because YOU folks aren't doing what I want you to do"
stephen
Hazlett, I willingly share my knowledge with those that ask. I feel that is the "obligation" . I don't feel that I have to try to teach those that are neither interested nor willing to learn. Sometimes that may mean hearing a conversation between some younger guy and a counter person at the LY and then sharing what I know with the young guy. It doesn't have to mean having an employee myself, the young guy may well be someone else's employee who is just trying to learn."Poor is not the person who has too little, but the person who craves more."...Seneca
I see where the confusion is, Stephen.
By "mentoring" I don't mean you should "hire" someone whether you need them or not. Helll no. There are many ways to mentor, to teach, to set an example that will raise the level of professionalism in the building trades.
Mentoring includes teaching people less experienced than you, but it also includes openly discussing your business practices like so many do here at Breaktime. We are all learning from each other every day.
Maybe you have a different perspective, Stephen, if you've pretty much been self employed all these years, but I have been an employee at many different building companies, worked for, and beside, many different carpenters, in a few different States. And the places I worked that encouraged a sense of teamwork, of sharing knowledge, teaching the new workers the craft all fostered a sense of pride - pride in the work, pride in ourselves, pride in being identified as a part of a good team.
Those companies were open to suggestion. They allowed the employee to self actualize instead of forcing it down the employees throats "this is how we do it" in the name of maximizing profits that day or on that particular job. They were investing in the employee, in his future, in what he would morph into. Ironically, I think that those companies reaped the rewards later when that next generation of skilled craftspeople became crew leaders.
As you can probably tell this is a big theme in my life. "Each one, teach one". But I really believe it's better to "light one candle than curse the darkness". Many, many candles have been lit for me as I walked my path to get here, including the mentoring I get here at Breaktime.
Ultimately, to answer the question "am I a good contractor?" it's my standards I apply to the question. I am not measuring you, or Calvin, or Jon Blakemore, or any local contractors in the area I work. I think (hope) we are ALL doing the best we can. The question is, what are our own values, our own standards. I'm sure you apply some standards I disregard, and visa versa. Huck said it first. I just agreed with him.
I understand and agree with what you said 100%. I only wish someone would have done that for me when I was a kid starting out. Employers AND parents. Both of which were just kind of blase' and uninspirational and thats being kind...so yeh, you're so right!
Thing too though...sometimes positive things can grow more from negativity through reflecting on what you now know shouldn't be.
I'd just hate to see the negativity as the norm...there sure is a whole lot of that out there though.
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Okay 'Buildz, just what do the Tibetan hieroglyphics in your tag line say?
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>>Okay 'Buildz, just what do the Tibetan hieroglyphics in your tag line say?<<Its a chant I use a lot during my meditation each day.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2shskL0AYuE <--How it sounds
http://www.yakrider.com/Meditation_om.htm <--What it means
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Stephen,What was your motivation for the articles you've written? Not monetary, I'm sure...As usual, Jim's put something I think into much more elegant language than I could. Jim,I know you posted some time ago about hiring some young guys. I haven't been able to find that thread to find out how it went. Maybe you can ressurect it?-KitTechnique is proof of your seriousness. - Wallace Stevens
Well...as you know, I say a lot of stuff, Kit. So, to be honest, I don't remember which thread that was.
But I do have a great story to share about a young guy who I met when he was 6, only ran into him occassionally in the following 20 years, and now works with me full time.
But I'm late and have to spend the day preparing for our daughter's wedding/party. I'll check back. Nice to see your name on the screen.Huck said it first. I just agreed with him.
Hey man,Congratulations! I've got three daughters, but they're a long ways from marrying age.-KitTechnique is proof of your seriousness. - Wallace Stevens
Vanderpooch,
the motivation for the 4 articles was pretty much the same as the motivation for the book i am working on-----------------
i deliberately didn't mention the articles---because i was pretty sure---objectively that they met Jims teaching requirement---and I didn't want to de-rail any plans he had to chastize me for being a selfish,self centered putz. ( Basically I "taught"---that is let somebody learn the same way I learned)
now---my wife is a teacher----and she tirelessly teaches the same lessons over and over and over------------ but I just can't get into that----easpecially on MY dime! LOL
Stephen
Well hellll. If I had realized it was open season fpr Stephen flogging I'd have been a lot rougher.
You, um, want to buy a used brake?Huck said it first. I just agreed with him.
Jim--- i thought of you and Calvin just this weekend-----check in to the photo gallery in a day or so in the thread---" welcome to stephens neighborhood"
for now let's say I thought of you at an unusual time.
stephen
hazlett,
That sort of thinking leads to self centeredness. I need, I don't need etc..
A more humain approach is to share with those less fortunate than yourself..
Teach them things you know and hope they take that add to it and when you are 87 years old and need your roof replaced someone will have your knowledge and be able to do the job to your satisfaction..
I think you two have put forth some concepts an entrepreneur in any field would be wise to consider.I think that a positive response to all those, well, except the "gouging" would be beneficial in building a desirable company.Desirable to hire, work for, or buy.SamT
"- Would you inflate your profit on one job to try and make up for a loss on another?"
Are you saying this is a bad or good thing? If a contractor is not bidding jobs in a profitable fashion, should he not raise his prices?
Jon Blakemore
RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
"Are you saying this is a bad or good thing? If a contractor is not bidding jobs in a profitable fashion, should he not raise his prices?"
The question relates to the notion of "gouging" one customer in an attempt to recover losses from another.New knowledge is priceless.
Used knowledge is even more valuable.
Does "gouging" really happen as often as we think? The way I see it, if a customer is given a fixed price bid, they have the right to accept or decline it.A contractor who is scared of "gouging" may very well end up going out of business, not able to service his past customers or solve the problems of new ones.So I think my answer would be yes, that I would increase my targeted profit margin on a job in order to make up for past losses.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
I would agree with you Jon.
stephen
I just had a converation with a friend about "fair pricing". She said her mom got 3 quotes for windows and that they were all too high. She said she worked for a window installation company 7 years ago and she knew the difference. So I asked "what is a fair price for your moms windows and who is that price fair too?"
She stammered a bit and said "well $500 a window would seem plenty in my mind". So I said is that what the company you worked for 7 years ago would have charged? She responded "maybe, maybe a little less". I pointed out inflation, cost of doing business, fuel, plastic being a petroleum driven business etc.
Then I asked if she wanted a quote on windows for her mom. She stammered around some more and then said her mom is selling the house. So I said "so she really wasn't in the market for windows unless she could get them cheap to sell the house". She conceded this to be true. So I asked if she thought that wasting the 3 sales persons time was "fair" when in reality she wouldn't buy the window without them being in a certain price range which none of the companies could meet since they didn't know the budget range to begin with?
She said "no, that is their business so they should do that". I thought no wonder we deal with such strange attitudes and have to charge more to cover quote cost etc. And to top it off the woman I was talking to works in ...............sales. DanT
Dan that's just an absolutely great illustrative story. Very well put. I've got a story with a different angle on charging a "fair" price from misguided service providers point of view that I just picked up in these last two weeks that I'll have to post now.
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I have known this woman for some time and even did a bathroom remodel at her house a couple of years ago. I really was stunned that the whole conversation happened but it sure was an eye opener to how people think. I will be interested to read yours as well. DanT
Now, I'm confused. I know, easily done (|:>)In your first post, I thought your were advocating generically raising your profit margin for all future jobs, which is kinda a good thing, in a reactive sort of way.In this post, you look like you are saying that you would only raise it for the job following the loser job. That's just another way to get a bad reputation.SamT
Sam,
I'm not really advocating any specific pricing strategy, I was just responding to my percpetion that the idea of increasing costs was considered "gouging". I'm not convinced that a contractor must keep the same profit margin for every job. I think a savvy contractor can do very well with a variable pricing model, as long as you keep the big picture in mind.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
JonBlakemore
If a company lost money on a job and incurred debt to complete, wouldn't the debt then be considered part of the OH therefore being part of the pricing structure? Wether the new pricing structure is in line with what customers will pay is a different story. I always think of gouging in relation to the carpetbaggers showing up after natural disasters.
"If a company lost money on a job and incurred debt to complete"That means your estimating and construction procedures both need a good review."wouldn't the debt then be considered part of the OH therefore being part of the pricing structure?"That is a philosophical question that has no wrong answer.SamT
John,I would say it would. On one hand, it's like Sam says that it's a philosophical question, but on the other hand, if a company doesn't make more than it spends they won't have to deal with pricing issues for long, as they will be bankrupt.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
your list is exactly why i only plan/design/build my own projects... I'm the only one that i can work for... and even i'd fire me on some days...
i do now for the first time ever have a boss..... his/her name is
INTEREST.... ie... interest payments on a construction loan... let me tell you... that is one mean azz make you work 7 days a week boss... I'm not cutting corners but things that i might have redone or changed just "because" these things i'm not doing as often as i might have... i'm also better at keeping tasks lined up for my help...
I'm still lucky in that everyday i still feel... "cool i get to go to work" vs "i have to go to work"
I do teach whatever it is I'm doing to anyone that wants to learn... i have one guy who is really good with the HVLP spray rig... which is something in the past i would have done myself... (because it "shows") i have a couple guys i now trust to mix and place the concrete we use for casting... and when time allows I teach everyone to weld...cut...& bend steel.... just because it's one of those things i enjoy...
i guess the fact that people see my work and ask for advice...help... or ask to hire me gives me some satisfaction...
am i a professional? man i hope not.... i just like to think i do good work....and have fun
p
"I'm not cutting corners but things that i might have redone or changed just "because" these things i'm not doing as often as i might have..."' I am wondering why this statement not jive with the 3" of concrete slab thickness with no steel for a parking garage area?"Poor is not the person who has too little, but the person who craves more."...Seneca
I've never poured a 3" slab in my life.... i did note in my post on the subject it's pretty common to see it done around here.... and it's not a "parking garage" it's covered parking... 22 10x20 slots... no traffic... and will be placed on what was a gravel (well compacted) parking lot.... anything over 4" on this base is just plain overkill and wasteful... oh yeah you are right about no steel... all the point loads for the building will be placed on engineered concrete piers...that are not part of the parking pad...
what i'm not doing is moving things an inch here and an inch there after they are built just because it looks better to my eye... being as my projects are a few things most peoples aren't...... like...
my design
my planning
my vision
i procure everything for every trade
my dime
my azz
and except for plumbing and electric and drywall... I'm every trade
p
After personaly reflecting on your questions, it seems to me your list could be the basis for another list of questions to be answered about potential clients.
- are you attentive during our meetings?
-how much knowledge do you have about your project?
-are you plans accurate and decisions made?
- do you exploit the vulnerabilities of your contractor?
-Would you chisel your contractor on another job because you think you paid too much previously?
- If you were a young contractor entering business would you be lucky to have you as a client?
-how many of your former contractors would have no reservations about working for you again?
-when your homeownership has ended, will you be hard to replace?
Just an interesting spin on it
Bowz
Those are all fair questions.New knowledge is priceless.
Used knowledge is even more valuable.
fair questions, yes. But how many contractors ask themselves such questions while looking at a client's project?
The reverse spin was interesting because last 2 weeks I have had a tile guy and a sheetrock guy at a job. We all have worked for a particular very wealthy family and we were swapping stories about working for them.
I no longer work for them and it could be summed up by asking those questions and getting the wrong answers.
Tile guy does repairs but will not bid any work because they change their minds so much, nor will he do large projects for them. I think the younger sheetrock guy got his bubble burst a little, after learning how many other contractors had worked for this family, and moved on.
Bowz