Replies

1. 
   Shep | Mar 17, 2004 03:17am | #1

     The faster you turn it on, the sooner you find your (new) leak.

      Oh wait, thats how I do plumbing.

    Don't laugh, it took me 5 hours to replace one shut-off a few weeks ago. I think I'll stick to carpentry.

2. 
   woodman54 | Mar 17, 2004 03:30am | #2

   After sweating the fitting  I take a wet paper towel and cool off the pipe slowly, this is to insure that I dont stress the joint with a too sudden temperture change. As soon as the fitting is cool enough to touch it is safe to turn on the water.  Do not try sweating pvc as the results never work out well.

1. 
   rjw | Mar 17, 2004 04:36am | #6

   >>Do not try sweating pvc as the results never work out well.

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   So _that's_ why!

   _______________________

   Tool Donations Sought

   I'm matching tool donors to a church mission to Haiti - we're shipping a bus converted to a medical facility in (now it looks like) April and can fill it with clothes, tools and all sorts of stuff needed in that poorest of all countries. A few hand tools or power tools can provide a livelihood for an otherwise destitute family. Please email me if you have tools to donate.

   Thanks to Jeff and David and Jim and Rich and Steven and Mark and Jason and Shep and Jen and Mike and Joe and Bill and Ken for their offers!

   Several donations have arrived! Thanks and God bless!

1. 
   hanlonk | Mar 17, 2004 07:55am | #11

   Say I knew a Bob W. in SF, Ca years back. Worked for Ken T. Must be a milliion. Any tools? Hand only? What's their power supply?

   Cheers,Kevin in Portland

1. 
   rjw | Mar 17, 2004 01:15pm | #13

   Not I.

   Hand or Power - 110/220 (very nominal!)

   _______________________

   Tool Donations Sought

   I'm matching tool donors to a church mission to Haiti - we're shipping a bus converted to a medical facility in (now it looks like) April and can fill it with clothes, tools and all sorts of stuff needed in that poorest of all countries. A few hand tools or power tools can provide a livelihood for an otherwise destitute family. Please email me if you have tools to donate.

   Thanks to Jeff and David and Jim and Rich and Steven and Mark and Jason and Shep and Jen and Mike and Joe and Bill and Ken for their offers!

   Several donations have arrived! Thanks and God bless!

3. 
   Sphere | Mar 17, 2004 03:47am | #3

   Soldering, I would turn on the water immediatly with out worry that it'll leak..but if ya gotta try to solder a pipe that has water in it yer fighting an uphill battle..so I useually have ALL my soldering done, and then fill er up..be sure to run all water out for three minutes to flush out the flux..with the aerators removed.

   PVC..I will let it sit as long as possible for the glue to cure.

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   Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks

   Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations. 

1. 
   HeavyDuty | Mar 17, 2004 04:22am | #5

   >>be sure to run all water out for three minutes to flush out the flux.

   Since flux is not readily soluable in water, I always wonder how long I have to flush a new sweat joint so that I wouldn't be drinking flux water. Are you aware of any scientific study on concentration of flux vs. time or volume of water flushed? A little flux won't hurt I guess.

1. 
   brownbagg | Mar 17, 2004 04:37am | #7

   we have a licence P.E. civil engineer that actual use CPVC glue to glue copper pipe together. He thought the C stood for copper

1. 
   HeavyDuty | Mar 17, 2004 06:01am | #9

   In his own house? Did it leak? May be he was onto something there.

2. 
   DavidThomas | Mar 19, 2004 02:50am | #21

   "licence P.E. civil engineer that actual use CPVC glue to glue copper pipe together"

   I'm not unusual being a Civil PE.  But it seems I am unusual being a PE who only gets a leak every 200-300 joints.

   Between one's freshman and sophmore year, they ought to send all engineers out to work as framers, then plumbers the next year, and auto mechanics the third year.  After that, and a bit of of electrical work, they just might be safe to unleash onto the world.David Thomas   Overlooking Cook Inlet in Kenai, Alaska

1. 
   BillHartmann | Mar 19, 2004 05:51am | #22

   I went to University of Louisville (Speed Scientific). They had a coop program. I think that GA Tech did also, don't know of anyothers.

   It was a 5 year program. First 2 years (6 quarters) everyone took the same classes.

   Then the 3rd year you went into your specialty school. The class where divided into 2 groups. They alternated with 1 quarter of classes and 1 quater of coop work. That last for 2 years (8 quaters).

   Then the 5 year was 4 quarters of classes.

2. 
   DavidThomas | Mar 19, 2004 05:53pm | #23

   Although my wife's medical residency was a grueling 3 years, it is a model I'd like to see engineers adopt a bit.

   What if, right out of school, you couldn't be hired into a regular job for just a year? You had to work, for $2,500/month in each of: sewer treatment, roadway design, structural, environmental, bridges/dams, water supply, power distribution, chemical reactor design, nuclear power, aviation, naval, and automotive?

   1) we see a lot more cross-polination from one industry to another,

   2) young engineers would find a speciality that was the best fit for them, and

   3) our diverse fields might be better able to communicate to each other, having had that common experience.David Thomas   Overlooking Cook Inlet in Kenai, Alaska

3. 
   Lateapex911 | Mar 19, 2004 09:16pm | #24

   Exactly! And we'd have more engineers with common sense, and less turf protection.

   Never ceases to amaze me how huge road projects get done, but the traffic flow still sucks cuz they missed or ignored some obvious issue.

   Of course, often there are political issues involved....maybe the politicians should have to follow your work course!

   Anyway, I agree entirely. Always good to see how the other side lives and works.Jake Gulick

   [email protected]

   CarriageHouse Design

   Black Rock, CT

4. 
   UncleDunc | Mar 19, 2004 10:22pm | #25

   Twelve specialties in three years? How much are people really going to learn in 65 work days?

   And who's going to pay for it? I can hardly see corporations lining up to pay engineering interns $7,500 for the three least productive months of their entire career.

   Some of the specialties seem odd, too. As well as some of the missing specialties. Does nuclear power engineering really have more impact on the country than, say, manufacturing engineering? Is a taste of naval engineering really more useful than a taste of telecommunications / computer engineering.

   I do like the idea of giving young people a better chance to find out what kinds of work they like or, perhaps more importantly, don't like.

5. 
   DavidThomas | Mar 19, 2004 11:36pm | #26

   "And who's going to pay for it? Some of the specialties seem odd, too."

   The specialities were just examples from the top of my head. Pick your own. Let the interns select their own, within some requirements for breath.

   In actual medical residency, they switch every month for 36 months. (SO they may return as an R-2 or a supervising R-3 to something they did as an R-1. And they do get paid $2,500/month the first year. About $2,800/month by the third year. And it is paid for because their services are billed out. (Although they work 60 to 95 hours a week, so maybe engineers working only 40 get less). And it is the only way to get to be a clinical doctor so they all do it.

   But my first month out of school, I billed $8,400 a month, easy. Billed, not take home, so there's a margain there.

   David Thomas   Overlooking Cook Inlet in Kenai, Alaska

2. 
   Sphere | Mar 17, 2004 08:51am | #12

   I just quoted what my new waterheater instructions said about flushing out flux..I just re-plumbed my whole place, and just ran it all wide open for a while..didn't time it..then got the WH wired the next day. Seems like the flux has to dissolve sometime..but when? Who knows? Maybe better to not ask.

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   Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks

   Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations. 

1. 
   BillHartmann | Mar 17, 2004 05:38pm | #14

   There are water soluable fluxes. The last time I bought some flux I was going to get some, but somehow ended up with the non-water based version.

2. 
   Lateapex911 | Mar 17, 2004 06:31am | #10

   ...regarding soldering pipes with water traces, there are a couple solutions.

   One, stuff white bread into the pipe. It absorbs the errant water if you're fast enough, then disolves and gets flushed out, presumably with the flux!

   Or, there are things that look like marbles on the market that do the same thing. Never used them, but a plumber mentioned them to me.

   Finally, if you're doing the bread trick, don't use any fancy bread with seeds, as the seeds will end up screwing up the valves and faucets!

   I'm no plumber though, so take this all with the usual grain or two of salt!Jake Gulick

   [email protected]

   CarriageHouse Design

   Black Rock, CT

1. 
   DaveRicheson | Mar 17, 2004 06:42pm | #15

   I have used the white bread dough ball trick many times. Works fine, but you be sure to remove the aireator and flush. The bread works in cpvc pipe also. Had to make a 3" dough ball once to replace a valve in a water main to an apartment complex once. Learned not to use the crust on one that big. Took two loafes of bread. Every one got free "bread and water" with a little mud when we turned the service back on :-)

   Dave

1. 
   neilcontractor | Mar 18, 2004 01:19am | #16

   I started this thread to see what others do.  I remodel kithcens and do a lot a plumbing.  Most of the time I wait for the pipe to cool down to touch and then turn the water on.  I usually try to speed this process with a wet rag or spray bottle.  On occassion I will just turn on the water, right away.    Thanks to all that replied.

2. 
   retiree | Mar 18, 2004 06:00am | #18

   I like the shop vac method the best.  Either suck it dry or turn the hose to the exhaust port and blow out the line.  Works great every time.  Just hold your hand over the vacumn hose and the pipe to reduce the air leakage.  It sure beats storing the bread in your lines.

1. 
   DaveRicheson | Mar 18, 2004 01:01pm | #19

   The big one we fixed was leaking because the city valve would not shut off completely. Pretty good trickel on that one.

   I don't always have a shop vac with me on plumbing repair jobs. HO ussually has a slice of white bread though. Works almost all the time. The bread dissolves in no time and easily flushes out of the system.

   Dave

2. 
   Sancho | Mar 18, 2004 08:17pm | #20

   When I sweat a joint I will spray it with some tap water or what ever water I have in the spray bottle and then test it. 

   Darkworksite4:

   Gancho agarrador izquierdo americano pasado que la bandera antes de usted sale

4. 
   WayneL5 | Mar 17, 2004 03:57am | #4

   I wait until a wet rag on the outside doesn't steam.  Then I know I won't get steam on the inside.

5. 
   goldhiller | Mar 17, 2004 04:43am | #8

   As soon as you're done, just give the fitting a few squirts from a spray bottle and then you can turn the water on or move on to sweating the next fitting.

   Don't bump a large brass valve or similar until you've cooled it (or it's cooled on its own) as they can stay hot enough, long enough that just a little bump too soon can cause failure.

   Knowledge is power, but only if applied in a timely fashion.
6. 
   crosscutter1 | Mar 18, 2004 03:28am | #17

   i like to cool the joint like everyone else has stated however if you had to shut the main off open it slowly not all at once