I’ve just laid my first laminate flooring (Armstrong Swiftlock) for a customer. I was a little embarrassed that it took me about 9 hours for 191 SF, including the plastic moisture barrier and the foam, but the job was a little daunting bec she bought the discontinued material on sale for $5 a package and i had just ONE square foot to spare. Soooooooo….i measured about a dozen times, thought about cutting, then measured six more times before taking the plunge. I only pieced under the stove on the very last row, but it turned out as well as that godawful stuff can be expected to.
I saw a sign in HD today that they’ll contract the installation-only of laminate flooring for $3/SF, so i don’t feel too bad after all charging $25 hour. Still, for something named “Swiftlock”, i seemed to take an awfully long time tapping it together! Since i don’t have a frame of reference for this stuff, can youse guys give me some idea how long it should take someone who knew what he/she was doing to do a rectangular room that size with a stairway and three doors to it?
Replies
I think that sounds about right, I may have been a LITTLE faster, but with cutting door jambs and notching that cra..er shi...er,um nasty stuff, it takes awhile. If ya get boisterous with the "Tapping" it will break the edges, and then getting the ends closed tight...arrrggggghhhhh.
I hate the stuff.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"If you want something you've never had, do something you've never done"
Paper flooring...sheesh...and it chips...
Aren't you glad the HO measured accurately *enough*?
SamT
The customer bought all the sale stuff there was, figured i could through something else under the sink if necessary. This is a little cottage rental, so no expense was spared!
I would have charged $15/hr and got it down in 3 hours. I hate it when you DIY weekend warriors come in here asking such simple questions and wasting our time. Next time hire a pro.
Actually, I probably would have measured 12 times and still come up a foot short ... in the most obvious part of the room. I did an entry foyer once for a niece, exactly 36 sf and it took 20 hours including removing the old carpet and adding a termination bar.
"Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Oh yeah...i was told the room was 'ready': they'd pulled the carpet. Not scraped or even swept/vacuumed...so i happened to have a Simpson 4x4 connector with me, scraped with that first...
happened to have a Simpson 4x4 connector with me, scraped with that first
Ow, that made my sides hurt from laughing. The pictures sure show what a difference there was. Sounds like a bad situation when you described the tenants."Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
I tell ya, my sides hurt from scraping like that, but it was remarkably effective! You set the bent flanges down to establish a scraping angle, which also provide a couple handholds, and the flat plate provides the scraper. It gets sharper as you continue. I think a handle would be nice...
Yeah, I was laying pavers this WE. Thought I had it figured out right but ended up not, so I had to cut about 15 of the suckers. That's fun with a circ saw and a brick chisel.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
There's all types of laminates, different styles, shapes, prices and thickness. I've found the thicker the laminate the quicker the install. The thinner laminate, which is what you probably got stuck installing, tends to be very hard to tap together, so I can completely see a room of that size taking that long. The real expensive stuff will snap together in a breeze, there's a definite difference.
I finally learned to get the ends close, tilt up, then wiggle it SORT of flat, then use a stomping action, pushing it toward the long edge, to get it to flatten out. Then i painstakingly tapped the ends together, but even so i had to be very careful after i split one end tapping. That piece went in the final row under the sink...
The old stuff that required glue and clamps and swearing took lots longer.
How long depends on the quality of the finished result desired, that and how old your knees are.
Customer happy? That's good.
Joe H
I'd read a lot before i started because i was concerned that one of the doors led directly to outside and rain/snow. The directions said glue COULD be used to protect the seams, so i did that around the entry seams. However, it left about zero window-of-opportunity for adjustment if i didn't get it tapped together in a few seconds, so although i wanted to do it for the sink front, too, i just wimped out on that area.
In the smaller rooms I've learned to snap the ends together 1st and then align and snap the long edge 2nd. Takes a bit to get it to snap and a rubber faced mallet is handy but the edges are very tight this way. Never had to lay it in larger rooms but I think the same approach may work if a helper was available to assist with longer lengths. I don't think I'd like the look in the larger rooms, this stuff looks better in places where the eye can't get a good look at it, like medium to small bedrooms.
I tried that way, too, to slide the short ends together, then tilt up one long plank and lower it into position, whch is a technique i'd read about. Working alone, i'd start at one end and get to the other, only to have to work backwards to where i started because the seam separated. I was actually getting a rhythm near the end of tilt/stomp/tap...only needed salsa music for accompaniment!
Project shots...not Art by any means, but at least an Improvement. The customers will be painting - badly - the trim. I also added shoe to the base - that stuff seems to slide around fairly easily and i didn't want an edge to peek out under the trim.
PS: That's waxed paper i placed under and behind the trim...trying to make the trim-painting idiot-proof.
If that's a dog bowl on the floor maybe you should have just covered the entire floor with wax paper. "I wanna be a race car passenger. You know, the guy that bugs the driver. Say, man, can I stick my feet out the window? Do we have to keep going in circles? Mind if I turn on the radio? Boy, you really like Tide."
Two dogs, a two-year-old, a renter who weighs 300# and her lazy husband. I told the customer (the renter's mother) i'd be happy to tile it instead with an economical tile and guarantee that, but this junk was "on sale"...the magic words! I was very clear with her about my reservations and made her agree that i wouldn't be held responsible if it failed due to moisture and she accepted. As it was, after the husband re-connected the sink trap - "Don't bother, Colleen; i can do that!" - it leaked. Luckily i didn't trust him and checked/tightened it anyway. I estimate a year or two until she has me lay tile, LOL...
Hmmm. For that second shot couldn't you have waited until she was finished checking the kid's diaper? ;)
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
LOL! that boy's pretty much a non-stop pooper! That model comes with big, blue eyes, blond curls, and a killer smile...almost as good as a puppy.
A puppy would probably be easier on the floor.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
It'll be hard to tell what destroys it, but i'm glad we agreed moisure issues wouldn't be my responsibility: since i laid it, an Australian shepherd has been added to the Jack Russell and German Shepherd, kid, and 300-pounder already slated to live there. (That's 'skinny' Grandma in the pic.)Pavers....that sounds painful. It took my a couple days for my up-and-down muscles to stop hurting after doing this job, and i thought i was in shape!
I'm just thankful that it was on the north side of the house, so mostly in the shade.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
(Looks real good, BTW.)
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
None of the laminate goes down as easily as the commercials would leave you to believe.
I think you made good time.
But you definitely do not charge enough for your time.
Rich Beckman
That doesn't sound like too bad of time.
But, you gotta charge by the sq. ft. Think about it-- 191 X 3 vs. 25 X 9. That's just for flooring. Prep work is by the hour. If the HO thinks you're making too much money, offer to slow down :).
Been there done that with discontinued material. No fun.
Mike
and Rich...Well, this thread has provided a great relief in that i no longer feel i was incompetent just bec i found the material installation as frustrating as it was, nor that i wasted the HO's money. Self-confidence restored...As far as the money goes...i actually came out of a retirement of sorts to do this 'handyman' gig starting last July on this house/cottage i used to own, more as a help to the HO than from a need to make money. The tradeoff is that she doesn't get to breathe down my neck. She's also the person who volunteered to pick me up after midnight at the airport when i flew in from Northfest; that's worth something!
Oooooh - It's for your airport-pickup-person - that's different. :) Gotta take care of them. Those lam. floors can be frustrating; throw in being tight on material - you did fine.
Have a great holiday!
Mike
Walk away!!! Vince Carbone
ROFL! Occasionally during that long day i would repeat the advice i'd learned at the Master's Feet at the "Vince Carbone Northfest Business Seminar". As i recall, "Walk away!" comprised the entire syllabus, n'est-ce pas? The chuckle that gave me did a lot to keep my spirits from flagging as the day wore on...thanky, darlin'!
I'm trying to figure out what all you guys are talking about tapping into place?I've laid 6-9 of those floors and the only time you have to tap into place is when you get into a closet or corner maybe, and I've found that if you shave a bit of the raised nub off of one of the peices, you can simply pressure slide it into the mating peice.Of course, I lay it peice by peice and start with one, than angle and link the short ends and than angle and link into the previous row.That means you have to angle up just about the entire row as you go, but if you angle your leag and foot around, you can hold the previous parts of the row into the other row to keep it from slipping out as you angle it up.JT
Not all snap locks are the same, some manufactures have a plastic block that is meant to be used as a cushion to thwap the pcs. into lock. Some don't, just a T&G with or without glue.
I have laid 3 differnt brands I think, and each was a bit different install practice. One memorable one was from Germany and it was the worst as far as fragility and snugging up the joints.
It could be what you used was more friendly.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"If you want something you've never had, do something you've never done"
I've installed alot of the flooring from Sam's Club. Nice thickness, great grain imprint and nice looking "images" of various wood types and built-in foam underlayment applied to each plank. All for $1.54 a square foot.That's a clic-lock design made in Canada and with a 30 year or lifetime (yea, right) warranty.Seems like there are 7 distinct patterns in each wood type - plenty to spread out the look.Best value in laminate these days IMO.JT
The foam attached to the back sounds interesting. I hated that stuff getting wadded up and tearing.
I liked this staple down, but dammed if I remember the name,View Image at least it was real wood and just tar paper.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"If you want something you've never had, do something you've never done"
The edges on a lot of the pieces i laid had been buggered up with a lot of handling while still in the package, on the way from being surplused at the store to being moved a few times on their way into the cottage. I'd look them over carefully, but i'd sometimes tap the ends together to discover some little nib had gotten curled up and would kept the ends from joining tightly, so i'd have to take the plank out, clean it up, try again...while trying to keep traction on that slick foam without tearing it...I tried both laying a plank at a time, per the instructions, as well as joining a whole row, then tilting it up. With a helper, the second way would have been much faster, but maybe i'm not tall enough to get the leverage on the whole plank - what i'd 'finished' kept popping apart - so i returned to piece-by-piece.This stuff was $5 a package (nine planks) by the time the HO bought it.