Replies

1. 
   JeffBuck | Feb 06, 2004 02:04am | #1

   depends long long ya tell them it'll take.

   Jeff

   Buck Construction   Pittsburgh,PA

        Artistry in Carpentry                

2. 
   RW | Feb 06, 2004 02:07am | #2

   Your call. Some people would say thats a bad omen, some say that's just a person who has waited so many times to get a call back they've taken the initiative. Returning bids to some extent depends on the size of the job. Obviously, the larger and more involved, the more inclined you are to sit and chew on the numbers for a bit longer to make sure you've got it all good. I try to turn them out in a week or less. Doesn't always happen. By the same token, larger stuff (to me) usually goes through some kind of refinement period. I rarely run into people that really have it all mapped out at the first call. You start saying well you're probably in the $XX neighborhood but I can't bid it until you decide a little more on details. Then you walk them through some of the options, they go find others on their own. Then you go start working with the stuff you know and get it half done. As the details roll in, "we've decided on marble in the shower and tile on the floor" you start filling in the blanks. I've had bids go that way and be three months between the first meeting and anything resembling a signable document.

   "The child is grown / The dream is gone / And I have become / Comfortably numb "      lyrics by Roger Waters

3. 
   Mooney | Feb 06, 2004 02:33am | #3

   Like Jeff said : then he knows

   or :

   I like doing them on the job site , maybe in the truck before I leave on a job of that size . Saves time returning it . If not , the next day . Shows a willing character . Its pro to tell them though if you are wanting to build business and be their man . Some pros use their computer and some a lap top , so it depends on the tradesman . 

   I prefer to write them on the job because I can walk back and look . Its fresh on my mind . No unansered questions and it sells the work that day normally . They are in the mood if you have an appointment. Look at it , bid it and sell it on the spot . Its the old written out way but its effective for small jobs.

   A  voice actuated cell phone in the truck helps too.

   Tim Mooney

4. 
   StanFoster | Feb 06, 2004 02:43am | #4

   Mike:   If there is one thing I have learned in my stair business....it is to be very prompt and deliver the bid asap.  I make it my priority to drop whatever I am doing....tend to the bid ...and call them personally....followed by a faxed bid.

   I dont know how many times I have been told that they appreciate my promptness.  

1. 
   Mooney | Feb 06, 2004 03:08am | #5

   I like that too . Thats a class act .

   Tim Mooney

1. 
   MJR | Feb 06, 2004 03:20am | #6

   Thanks to all for your prompt replies I can see that I will have to work out a system to streamline bidding process in my business.. Thanks Mechanic Mike

5. 
   ProDek | Feb 06, 2004 04:57am | #7

    

   a full basement finish that the HO started and forgot to wire b4 he installed taped and sprayed all the drywall on the ceilings and outside walls.

   I highlighted your bid request in red because it sounds like red flags galore.

   I'm not an electrician but what does the customer want you to do?

   1. cut a 1' section 16" high all the way around the room?

   2. install outlet boxes every 6'?

   3. Pull wire?

   4. install new drywall, tape, mud, sand, mud, sand, prime, texture, prime, and paint when you are all done?

   Oh by the way, good luck trying to match the texture job he did.

   I would recommend that the HO remove his own sheet rock, all of it, to save labor. when he is done with that have him give you a call.

   I personally would walk away from a job like this.

   The HO has already shown you "he can do it all himself" and trust me he is going to tell you how to be an electrician as well.

   To answer your original question I tell my customers it will usually take one week to get back to them with a proposal.

   I would tell this guy 1.The rock has to be removed.2.here is the phone number for my container hauler.3.here is a phone number for my drywall guy. 4. here is the number for my painter.And 5, I'll do the electrical for this much.

   Unless you need to do it all, and if you are a remodeling contractor with lots of qualified subs and a good handle on your cost estimating I still would be reluctant to work for someone like this. 

   Good Luck!

   "Rather be a hammer than a nail"

   Bob

6. 
   Piffin | Feb 06, 2004 05:17am | #8

   I don't do omens but I read this guy as one who wants to be in charge from the little you have uncovered here.

   The more important thing is your future activity in this vein.

   You set the toine and protocol for punctuality if you remain in charge.

   When you meet the customer and see the job first time, tell him/her exactly when you will be able to present a bid. ( Personnally I would never make a firm bid on unseens and going back into DIY work.God only knows what lies hidden in the recesses of those walls!)

   Show up with the bid presentation when you say you will and use the opportunity to sell your strong points and ideas and walk away with a signed contract or work order.

   Then start the work when you say you will.This punctuality of yours adds to satisfaction but also outlines the expectation of punctuality all the way arround. You let him know when you willl be presenting a bill opr first draw request and when you expect to recieve the check. That punctuality comes home to mama.

   .

   Welcome to the

   Taunton University of Knowledge

   FHB Campus at Breaktime.

   where

   Excellence is its own reward!

7. 
   fdampier5 | Feb 06, 2004 06:32am | #9

   as a salesman I know better than counting on a piece of paper to sell the job..  Often the chances are that he will use your bid to beat up the other contractors to lower their bid.  That or he will use it as a basis to do it himself..

     While he may need the bid to bring to the bank to get funding to do the job,

   you should have found that out before. 

    someone said that he does simple bids on the site and presents them.  I like that answer.  you now are in a position to go for the close.  Tell him the amount and ask when he'll be ready to have you start (that's a closing tool and it will prevent your bid from being used plus it also gets you to the decision point.)

   If he asks for a copy you can honestly tell him that you don't have  a copy ready yet but the amount is correct, "Here, I'll write it on my business card for you"

        He knows what you discussed and you can do an actual quote listing every detail and the price when he's ready to sign..

       Nothing shady about this appraoch.  I mean you have no intention to cheat him correct?  The amount is discussed all you want to do is prevent others from using your work to come in a couple of bucks lower since they don't have to take the time to figure out the costs involved.

     More complex bids should be done in the office and regular phone contact used to determine when to go over and present your bid.  Here's why.  Assume that you are the low bidder,  he'll wonder why, what did you forget or not include,  now you can assure him that every detail he discussed is covered,  here you also have a chance to revise your bid if he forgot to mention something that he included in other bids.  if you just drop it off he may look at it and think, Oh he forgot the... oh well... next!

     Your time was just wasted thru no fault of your own.

      Or, you reassure him of the quality of your work or deal with whatever is his hot button..  Dropping a quote off can't do that for you..

      The only time he should ever have his hands on your quote is to,  "press hard the last copy is yours!"

        I know this may make you uncomfortable and there is a real skill in learning how to do this,  that's why the sales profession is so well paid.. Learn the skill and your customers will appreciate it, it's an honest and direct way of doing business.  Your bank account will get better and you will employ people to help you and grow your company..

     

1. 
   Mooney | Feb 06, 2004 11:08am | #11

   Thats the real deal right there .

   Tim Mooney

1. 
   Sancho | Feb 06, 2004 06:27pm | #12

   I kind agree with pro dek and frnchy (go figure that one) in this case if I felt that the HO was going to use my bid to use as a baseline for ther bids IE get someone to come down on their price. I would be charging for the estimate. At least that way you'd get something for your time and effort. 

   Darkworksite4:

   Estamos ganando detrás el estado de Calif. Derrotando a un #### a la vez. DESEA VIVO LA REVOLUCIÓN

1. 
   jimblodgett | Feb 06, 2004 10:24pm | #13

   Lot's of good advice already given here.  Once I've gathered enough info through discussion, and site visit(s) to confidently bid the work I let them know when to expect my quote, and do my best to deliver on time, or explain why I'm gonna be late.  Call me anal, but I like to keep my word.

   One policy I disagree with stated earlier in this thread is giving quotes right away.  I can see how you might be able to do that for very straight forward work, but I don't seem to ever run into that, and whenever I've given an on the spot bid, I generally have overlooked something, and regret it later.

   I TRY to make it a policy to always sleep on any important decision, including ANY business decisions, and I tell potential customers that.  I can't remember anyone ever being put off when I say that.

   So anyway, even when looking at a fairly simple job I generally say "well, this looks pretty straight forward, but I like to let things turn in my head a few times, let me sleep on it and I'll get back to you tomorrow."  Or something along those lines.

8. 
   gecko | Feb 06, 2004 07:20am | #10

   I agree with pro-dek 110%.

   I've seen a million times. this sounds like a great way to get burned.

   Custom Cabinetry and Furniture

   http://www.BartlettWoodworking.com

    

9. 
   Sphere | Feb 07, 2004 03:19am | #14

   Along the same thread..sorta. When I was first getting my own business up and runnin, I had sent letters of introduction to Large builders, Interior designers, architects..any one who I thought might throw an apple my way..I was specializing in architectural wood work, trim, stairs..that kind of stuff.

   When a well established and very busy General Contractors Co. replied that they had a house coming up that was all custom and all oak..trim, stairs the whole shebang. They wanted me to bid it, so I aske for a set of plans..said I'd come get them even. No, no, no..why don't you come here and look them over and give us a price..(no red flags in my head)..so, I get there and they lead me to a room, with a set of prints, a calculator, a phone a coffe pot full of coffee..say take your time, make your self at home.

   Took me two days..I gave them a proposal..they said we'll let ya know either way in 2 weeks. I go on my way, bragging to the DW what a cool way to work..and such a BIG company..

   2 weeks later, they call and say we have house no.2 in the works..same deal..ya gotta come here etc....So I did once more..little more than 2 days this time..calling suppliers waiting for prices..etc. This one included a lot of exterior stuff.

   All said and done with no.2..and same story, we'll let ya know in two weeks..I waited a week and figgured no.1 ought to have an answer by now..called them and got a different secretary than normal..I aske dabout the house I bid first..she said they did not get the contract..so my bid is dead in the water..They told me they HAD the JOB..what they did was use ME as an estimater..FOR FREE. The second house never came to pass (for me)..and when I pointed out what they had done to me..they simply said yeah, thats how we do it..wanta work for us full time? WITH pay.?

   I saw red. So a free estimate? when they hound ya? No thanks.

   edits..for wife derailin train of thought

   Go Stab yourself Ya Putz! Ya think I Parked here?

   
   

   ---

   Edited 2/6/2004 7:32:58 PM ET by SPHERE

   
   

   ---

   Edited 2/6/2004 7:34:20 PM ET by SPHERE

10. 
    DanH | Feb 07, 2004 06:44am | #15

    To address the original question, and speaking from the standpoint of a potential customer, I'd generally expect a bid in about 3 days on an uncomplicated (to estimate) project. Contractors that are sluggish with bids, don't return phone calls, etc, really rub me the wrong way. If you don't want the work, say so -- don't just keep stalling.

11. 
    jimblodgett | Feb 07, 2004 09:13am | #16

     "I've been burned by working up a bid, and calling right away. I almost always forget something!"

    Yup.  Me too.  More times than I'd care to count.  "Once burned, twice cautious".
1. 
   JeffBuck | Feb 07, 2004 11:33am | #17

   I agree Jim ...

   I never give a price that same day ...

   I don't even give a ballpark.

   Can't ... every job's different ... always have a question about those folks that "need" an answer that quick.

   So I don't.

   JeffBuck Construction   Pittsburgh,PA

        Artistry in Carpentry                

1. 
   StanFoster | Feb 07, 2004 02:51pm | #18

   I posted early in this thread that I make my stairbids priority and get them back ASAP. Once I sit down with pad and paper...  I never take longer than one hour to work up a bid.  Of course bidding on a stairway is nothing compared to major projects that have many things to consider.

   I have been told many, many times that they appreciate my promptness and that I also followed through with building the stairway the same way.

   Its kind of weird in my business.  I bid very conservatively and the longer I fine tune my bid....the bid goes lower.   Until this market slows down...I am not changing my ways.

1. 
   Mooney | Feb 07, 2004 07:00pm | #20

   Ive kind of been waiting here for Mike Smith to reply . I have no real idea what he will say , but from the way he answers on here Im guessing . He always says on here to a direct reply to one of "us", : whatta ya think?  He wants feed back .

   I want that feed back too with a customer . I want a conversation and to feel it out . They give away things they dont think about . In this big market you speak about right now , others are swamped too . Thats a good point you made : until the market changes.   If the client is ready on the first meeting , why not close the sale ?

   Tim Mooney

1. 
   Piffin | Feb 07, 2004 07:21pm | #21

   When I was doing single trade work, I could easily come up with the price to re-roof your house in an hour on site. I knew exactly what the costs and conditions were.

   But now it can take me two weeks or so to do an estimate for a half million dollar renovation. Takes awhile longer to pull it all together..

   Welcome to the

   Taunton University of Knowledge

   FHB Campus at Breaktime.

   where

   Excellence is its own reward!

2. 
   ProDek | Feb 07, 2004 08:54pm | #22

   As usual Piffin hit the nail on the head.

   To bid one single phase of construction is much easier than bidding a remodel job.

   Even after hours of covering all the bases there are phases of a remodeling contract that have to be left "open ended".

   You don't know what you will find behind that sheet rock. There should always be an exclusion at the end of your contract for unforeseen structural, electrical, plumbing and insulation problems.

   I could quote decks on the back of my business card like many of the other deck builders in the area do. Or I could go home and design a 3D cad drawing that would give the customer a visual picture of what he is paying for. Going through the design process also covers structural remedies and true costs of footings, framing, decking, railing, stairs, fascia. etc.

   Allow yourself enough time to quote the job thoroughly. One to two weeks is the norm for a remodel bid. Customers realize you have to work on the bid at night after you hang up your tool belt. Just be sure to keep in touch with the customer by phone to assure them you are still working on the bid. 

   Good luck, and let us know how you did.   "Rather be a hammer than a nail"

   Bob

12. 
    Schelling | Feb 07, 2004 06:26pm | #19

    I don't think that it is necessarily a bad omen for this customer, though you will have to make that judgement. I don't have to work with them.

    I also don't think that you are remiss in not finishing the estimate yet, unless you told them it would be done.

    That said, I always try to get my estimates/bid done as quickly as possible. I am more likely to forget what I have seen or what was said, if I wait too long. Many of our jobs are light on plans and paperwork and I don't like to spend unpaid time working up particulars for a whole series of allowances. It is much better to know from past jobs what the actual cost were, apply a generous fudge factor and live with the result. If there is a complete set of plans and specs, I will try to get as many of the hard costs set as possible, which takes quite a bit of time, but I will still test these numbers against past job costs. This will more often than not point to something that I have completely forgotten.

13. 
    Piffin | Feb 07, 2004 09:31pm | #23

    Is there an answer for the people who almost insist on a ballpark?

    Ben

    Yes,

    It is, "Goodbye"

    .

    Welcome to the

    Taunton University of Knowledge

    FHB Campus at Breaktime.

    where

    Excellence is its own reward!

14. 
    JeffBuck | Feb 08, 2004 09:25pm | #24

    Sure ...

    "Sorry, I don't build ballparks."

    Jeff

    Buck Construction   Pittsburgh,PA

         Artistry in Carpentry                

15. 
    Schelling | Feb 08, 2004 09:35pm | #25

    The answer is to build a big enough ballpark.