How long would this permit take to get?
I’m annoyed at the local permit department over their slowness and would like to know how long your county/city/town/village would take to issue this permit.
Work in question is very simple–remove a couple of existing 3×4 windows and an exterior door and re-frame new openings in the same wall for them, in slightly different locations. This is under a gable with minimal load and typical headers are acceptable, i.e. no engineer’s stamp needed. One sheet with a before/after elevation shows it all. No plumbing/electrical/mechanical, no design review.
Folks here want 6 weeks to plan check this and issue it. I’ve worked in several places that deal with this level of permit over the counter, anywhere from 15-45 minutes.
Please mention where you’re from. I’m going to print out responses and take them to the next county commission meeting and gripe about it. Thanks!
Replies
in my town... even perfect strangers can get that permit in 10 minutes if the Inspector is not backed up.. all they have to do is comply with the code.
In Cranston... the header sizing would have to be stamped by a PE... even though it is specified by the code... and IF you have the stamp, it could still take a week
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
You live in Cranston?
not on a bad day...Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
It would probably take 1 day at most were I live. They would check to make sure that the headers are what the code books says. The reason it might take a day is that there is only one person that does that job in our city.
Dan
"Life is what happens when you are making other plans." - John Lennon
Starting from scratch here in Los Angeles, CA, you should be able to do this thru the LADBS web site. You'd need to download their Type V sheet, and provided that your headers are within its specifications, maybe 10-15 minutes at the computer would do the job.
Otherwise, you'd have to go in and get it over the counter. Figure an hour or two for driving and finding parking, 10-15 minutes waiting, a minute or two of actual time at the counter, another 5 minutes and a C note or two for the cashier. Doable as a long lunch.
-- J.S.
In Jax, FL. Actual time to get permit depends on the first come, first served list. About 20 minutes total time if you're first in line.
However, since there is a structural change, we need the PE stamp, which could take up to a month to get. Can't even build a dog house without engineering.
About $40 for the permit and $450 for the stamp. 80 cents for parking to get the permit. Two round trips to the engineers place of business, about 36 miles total. Count up the hours and you've blown a whole day before you do the first lick of productive work.
Edit: Add in the required framing inspection and there goes another day.
Edited 5/11/2004 2:49 pm ET by Ralph Wicklund
Thanks, gents.
Dan, whereabouts you live?
Ralph, stamp by your own PE or by the city's (requiring the 30 days...)? Once you have your application in order, how long to permit?
It's sounding like the stone age in our town.
Anyone else?
<Ralph, stamp by your own PE or by the city's (requiring the 30 days...)? Once you have your application in order, how long to permit?>
That would be a private PE. The city does not stamp. That would be a liability item.
30 days is to get in and out of the queue (huge backlog) of work passing through all the engineering firms since the city started reqiring stamps. Previously I could do my own drawings and computations, using published and recognized tables, have them reviewed by the city, have them revised on the spot by the plans reviewer and pass over the greenbacks and walk out with a permit.
With all the paperwork in order and barring a long wait to see the plans reviewer or the others like zoning, concurrance, right of way, historical district, health department, I can be in and out with permit in hand in less than 30 minutes.
These values are only good for smallish jobs. Once you get over $25,000 you gather all the required paperwork and plans, drop them off at the front desk and then maybe you hear back in a week or so to come on down and get your permit or go back to the drawing board and comply with what the plans department wants.
I live in Winnemucca, Nevada. A pencil sketch would also be good enough if clear with proper details.
Dan"Life is what happens when you are making other plans." - John Lennon
Columbia, Mo. No stamp on standard headers. Pencil sketch. 10 -15 minutes at the counter to walk away with permits.
SamT
It's obvious a large portion of our country does not have a sufficient load of Bureaucrats manning the forts.
Where's our new Resident Bureaucrat Tim? Does he know about the C notes?
Joe H
"Where's our new Resident Bureaucrat Tim? Does he know about the C notes?"
Sorry Im late on this one , Ill give a detailed answer when I get through all this . Should be interresting reading.
Im stumped over the C note thing though.
Tim Mooney
Building Inspector [since this is going to be printed and presented]
> Im stumped over the C note thing though.
It's the fee for the permit. Here it's probably about $100 - 200 for a job that size. The plan checker figures it out, and passes you along to the cashier. One cashier handles maybe 4-6 plan checkers' worth of fees. It's more efficient not to spend the checkers' time on visa cards. Specialization....
-- J.S.
John, Sounded much more interesting the way I interperted your post.
Joe H
"I'm annoyed at the local permit department over their slowness and would like to know how long your county/city/town/village would take to issue this permit."
Dave,
Here SE Wisconsin, it depends on what you are trying to do, AND if you live near wetlands of any kind. In general 10 minutes over the desk. A week if you need planning commission approval. 2 weeks near wetlands as the DNR and County have to sign off also, but that can be expedited face to face with the right officials, but you have to do the scheduling and driving around, and not interrupt them at lunch time. AND have all your paper work in order, AND know or have learned how to work the system.
Two to three months if you follow all the steps on the forms.
Can't tell you how many yuppie HO's I meet at "social gatherings" who actually try to follow the letter of the law on those applications, and wonder why the deck they wanted to build has taken them two years.
Actually a very good question with no one answer.
Oh, and tack on extra for ever coppin' an attitude with the inspector. Never EVER argue with him, just ask questions and nod yes.
Jon
Edited 5/11/2004 5:06 pm ET by WorkshopJon
Edited 5/11/2004 5:10 pm ET by WorkshopJon
Edited 5/11/2004 5:15 pm ET by WorkshopJon
Edited 5/13/2004 3:16 am ET by WorkshopJon
"Oh, and tack on extra for ever coppin' an attitude with the inspector. Never EVER arue with him, just ask questions.'
Some people dont get it. A good inspector is there to help all involved , not bust the place. The job of an inspector is to inforce codes. He can do that by the book and offer no help . That would be considered sufficient. Or ,................ he can go the extra mile and try to insure that you may follow the path smoothly. He may offer help and suggestions to cut down on rejections of inspections and generally share his knowledge of the code books to help all involved. If hes really good he will look things up and call you to share points of interrest between you .
I use the 3 strike rule. After that , Im done offering and just inspecting.
That is good advice you gave.
Tim Mooney
"Some people don't get it. A good inspector is there to help all involved , not bust the place. The job of an inspector is to enforce codes. He can do that by the book and offer no help . That would be considered sufficient. Or ,................ he can go the extra mile"
Tim,
I've heard "horror" stories about inspectors, but every encounter I've had with one has been positive. Like you say, their job is to make sure (big picture here) a safe structure is built/maintained.
They didn't (hopefully) get to their position without learning and seeing a lot. Sure, at times they are swamped, but on a slow day, if you're patient, you can learn quite a bit from one, AND if you pay attention, make the inspection process a breeze.
Jon
Waterford Ct. They don't issue permits at the desk, they take your forms, your money, and your time. For what you want to do, however, with no change in footprint, the permit would be in the mail within the week.
Same town took almost four weeks for a deck I'm building, however, as it has to go through a bevy more reviews. And there's an additional charge for it, of course. But they're great to work with, and required inspections are done the same day requested, as long as the phone call is prior to 12.
Fort Myers, Florida. Framing plan and a site site plan. Almost everything has to be sealed. Anywhere from 2 to 5 weeks depending on their load. In Naples it would be more like 6 to 8 weeks. No such thing as an over the counter permit.
"Please mention where you're from. I'm going to print out responses and take them to the next county commission meeting and gripe about it. Thanks!"
Don't wave the responses in their faces ! The bureaucrats "backlog" will become even longer. Sometimes pastries or doughnuts dropped off for the office staff have helped improve their response time , and they are happy to see you.
Most departments will give us a permit in 24-72 hours I think they do that to keep my dad from lingering around the offices until they issue a permit. But there are some departments that will take all the time they want because they can, if they are pushed it will take longer and they wont forget you when they see you next time.
Good luck
Wait six weeks for simple permits and say nothing? There's a citizen input period at the weekly county commission meeting, and there's an election coming up. They're definitely going to hear from me...
Good for you. But do it rationaly and not angrily or the ears will close.
The commisioners are not the ones who issue permits so it's not likely they will go beauraucratic on you. They are the ones who oversee things and they need to know the public is not being served.
When I was in Gainsville Fla thirty years ago, that would have been a one hour permit.
When I was in Grand County, CO it could take from one day to a week, depending on workload and the attitude of the officer. ( I was on his * list for a while, LOL)
Here, It could technically take from one week to three weeks depending on the scedule because the whole board has to approve it and they only mewet every two weeks, but for something this simple and small with no change of footprint, most people don't bother taking out a permit and never get slapped for it.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Jeez, do I come across as a guy who's going into a public meeting waving a machine gun? I was also going to critique their lack of a good household hazardous waste pickup program (I keep smelling gasoline and solvents among the debris when I drop stuff at the transfer station). Maybe it'll hurt their feelings if I bring up two things at once. I'll stop off at the donut shop and bring a dozen chocolate glazed to the meeting... soften 'em up a bit.
The way the donut intimidation process really works......
You bring the donuts to the Cop Shop... then you bring the cops to the meeting.
Solidarity... present your case.
I did not want to suggest you say nothing. Just be careful how you say it, there are some officials that do things "because they can". If their superiors direct them to be more expedient they usually are insulted and they have long memories. They may be actually very busy, or by telling you it is a six week waiting period to review your plan it is their way of asserting their authority.
You are well within your rights to question the length of time it will take to review your plans. The code officials may be offended. Try sitting down with the official for an informal review of your plan and ask them questions that show you 'value' and 'appreciate' their input.
Just a small note .
We have our fire chief sign off on commercial site and building plans . One contractor called him a dirty name and gave him a cussing.
I know it has nothing to do with the above , but he has built a commercial building and still has no water or sewer. That was 8 mos ago. Water and sewer joins his property at the back of his property across 50 acres. His building sits on the hiway but cant cross it .
Tim Mooney
Tim when one of our clients calls for a final inspection on a new home, one of the site superintendents will have no problems with a certain inspector, the house will get C of O with no defects found. If the other site superintendent calls for final it can be the same house and the building inspector will find superficial problems to correct before c.o. is issued.
I belong to a building code officials organization , the have monthly meetings and schools. I get to know most of the officials and their personalities, this helps when conducting business with them. Treat most people with respect and it will be returned, there can be a few exceptions.
I'm from way upstate NY. A permit for a project such as you describe would be immediately issued with only a sketch for plans.
A house over 1500 square feet requires stamped plans but with these plans the permit will be issued quickly. If you have submitted the plans to the inspector, you can begin your project, even if the paperwork (by the inspector) is not complete.
If there are zoning or setback problems, all bets are off. These can take months or years to work out.
It just took me 33 days to get a permit for a gazebo and two breeze way arbors.
Every city is different. It depends on their workload.
"Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
Lincoln, NE.
Building is hot. Inspectors are knowlegable and pick their battles. They know what kinds of jobs to scrutinise, and after some time, which contractors. For what you're describing, that's real low on the totem pole. Process here would be walk in, over the counter, maybe answer one or two questions, depending on how good your pencil sketch is, pay your $40 and ten minutes later you're trucking.
I've done entire basement remodels where the permit process had me in the building under ten minutes. Conversely, very simple commercial work, good lord. You get the fire code involved, be ready for a sit down. I suspect it's because they think of me as residential, and when I showed up with commercial plans from an archy, the flags went up. Permit cost here is $30 flat fee, + 2/$1000 job cost (A job selling for $10K the permit costs $50, not too bad)
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man." - Mark Twain
As soon as the building inspector can get to it, usually a few minutes.
Orono Minnesota.
Here in NW Oh., small cities and rural county, that morning at the hand of an inspector you know. City of Toledo or urban County, probably a week as it's in with all the other requests.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
In Connecticut it varies from town to town. The town I live in would be over the counter. Heck, the local bldg inspector has been known to give CO inspections from the seat of his truck!
One town I will not name will hold you up 3 to 4 weeks. After they get around to reviewing your plans and the tax office signs off as to the taxes being paid on said property, you can take them to the next bi-monthly planning and zoning meeting for approval. Then you can usually walk it through inland wetlands authority, and get a quick stamp from the local health district. After that they have to post the permit then give the public 10 business days to appeal-Technically- You can start during the appeal process at your own risk.
Walsenburg, Colorado
Ten minutes, plus another ten to shoot the bull with the guy at the desk.
Something is what it does.
Last city I worked in MA, used to take 1 day for permits. Now they've changed the policy as "All work, except painting, Wallpapering, Flooring, will require a permit". They now take the permit application and using a "Cost book", determine what the overall price will be, based on prevailing wages, and then issue the permit. The process can now take up to a week or more. The same rule applies to home owners doing their own work. The permit price is based on what it would cost if a contractor would do the work.
Another way to gain revenue for the City in my opinion.
Renaissance Restorations
Victorian Home Restoration Services
http://www.renaissancerestorations.com
Just got back from the Wake Co NC permit office. Took about 30 minutes to get plans approved for a deck and screened porch project.
They say they require 2 weeks for a complete house, new construction, but my experience is that it takes less. Other local building jurisdictions have similar turn-around time, and most, but not all, offer while you wait service for simple projects like decks, etc.
As far as a 6 week wait, the subject building officials need to understand that they are doing their a citizens a disservice by causing contractors not to want to work in their area, (I wouldn't) thereby resulting in higher prices to the consumer.
"As far as a 6 week wait, the subject building officials need to understand that they are doing their a citizens a disservice by causing contractors not to want to work in their area, (I wouldn't) thereby resulting in higher prices to the consumer. "
Beuraucratic delays like this are som,etimes used to create an artificial slowdown when govt leaders believe that growth should be slowed for one reason or another but are uncertain whether a moratorium or building permit limitation would pass a general election. I wonder if that is the case in this instance.
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"Bureaucratic delays like this are sometimes used to create an artificial slowdown when govt leaders believe that growth should be slowed for one reason or another but are uncertain whether a moratorium or building permit limitation would pass a general election".
Piffin,
I could see that happening, but in this case we were talking what amounted to maintenance/improvements. That type of stuff should be able to be done IMO, in ten minutes over the desk.
Jon
true enough but who ever said that bearacracies were selectively efficient?
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
The latest from Canyon county, Idaho. Seriously, it takes six weeks to get a building permit issued, due to the volume of requests for them. I'm tempted to think it could be a maneuver by the local gov't to slow down the building boom, but who knows? Six freakin' weeks. Thats the facts. On a side note, the latest building inspector is an older guy who up to three months ago was selling wood in a lumber yard here. He hasn't had near enough training.........We are all hoping he catches on quick, though. He yellow tagged a house I framed because he was just sure that the trusses didn't have a big enough gang-nail in one spot. I pointed out to him (quite nicely) the state engineers stamp on the trusses, but he still held up the rockers for two days until one of the other inspectors came out and signed it off. The next house I called for an inspection on had two inspectors, because they were trying to break him in, still. He's a nice guy, just trying to do his job and I'm sure he will do better as he gains experience. Its just a little frustrating for us people who have to deal with him in the meanwhile.
The city is required to have an inspection process through the IBC, and the International Fire Code which has adopted the previous. The reasons cities have a cheaper insurance rate over country townships is because of adopting the Fire Codes. In order for a city to have a cheap protection coverage in insurance rates it shall follow all provisions of the codes. With this knowledge , the public will demand service because of the difference of costs of coverage if its pointed out at a township meeting with the local paper reporter there . If not , it can be called in , but most meetings are in public print.
With the above said alone it must be that the city offer the service to the public that pays their salary. If its not done in a timely matter its public interrest for a fact.
Arkansas
I have what I call as a first need call which may be a footing inspection at 2.00 pm. That type of need is important to the public becuse usually a crew is waiting for an inspection like that costing an owner money. There are several inspections like that where a crew of some size is waiting on me when I pull up and after I leave they are turned loose to continue work. All those are "first calls" . Sometimes other calls are rated for importance, such as down to one person waiting on a permit like yourself. You are not at the bottom of the list because you the public are waiting on said service . You are then rated as second calls in my office. Any call not holding up the public will be listed as third calls . Plan reviews are done as time permits in conjunction of the above. Following is what I try to provide if AT ALL POSSIBLE:
First calls are done within the hour or a maximum of two hours lead time.
Second calls are done within 8 hrs or within a maximum of 24 hrs lead time.
Third calls are done in a timely manner of availability within three days , or you are called . A few get called on a pretty weather weeks. In bad weather weeks those calls can be answered often the same day.
Plan reviews are done on off load periods such as 7.00 to 8.00 am and 3.00 to 6.00 pm , or Saturdays if deemed necesary.
Your call is listed as a second call. I dont require a stamped set of plans on your type of project because Im a licensed contractor which states in my opinion Im qualified to make the decision of passing your plan review. Its a simple header with cripples.
The time might vary from ten minutes to 24 hrs. If I was faxed your plans at 7.00 am , I could tell you to start before 8.00 am verbally by phone if you were one that had a good repore with my office. One that paid mailed permits and always called for permits and inspections and made my job enjoyable.
Tim Mooney
I've never pulled a permit locally for such a small job. For a whole house, a garage, a self-contained cabin, they say (and do) 2 day turn-around. But when I was rushing to break ground, they've turned it around in less than a day.
Location: Kenai, Alaska. Plans check and on-site inspections are all the same guy (notice a correlation?). Unless he's off hunting - then the city engineer fills in.
Edit to add fees: My house? $250 or so. Your windows? $60, I'd guess.
Edited 5/17/2004 10:09 am ET by David Thomas